"How a rookie HC derailed a rookie QB"/All-22 of EJ Manuel

[The Wiz]

I thought you said that he was polished coming out of college? If you asked me to give you a QB who, coming out of college, could be described as "raw" and a "project," the first QB that would pop into my head would be Tim Tebow. Actually there are a lot of comparisons between the two. Both were projected as 3rd round types by most but had teams willing to take a chance on them in the first round because they loved some of the tools and the upside. Clearly, EJ had/has a better arm coming out of college but at least Tebow was able to put it together at the college level. Another thing people have seemingly forgotten about Manuel is that he wasn't even that good in college. So to that point, I understand what you're trying to say. But as pro prospects, Tebow was every bit as raw- probably much more raw- than Manuel.

When did i say either Tebow or EJ were polished?

Edited July 20, 2015 by The Wiz

[FireChan]

Tebow was over hyped. EJ was not.

 

 

Since when? Since some people (a) do it themselves to ridicule EJ and (b) are high on stats pertaining to total YARDS and give EJ crap because he passed for less than 200 yards, A GOOD stat in those measly passing yards (<200) was the 75+ completion percentage.

 

Here in DC all you heard in RGIII's first season was his 70+ completion% with no reference to total yards because he could (at the time) scramble.

 

http://www.pro-football-reference.com/leaders/pass_cmp_perc_career.htm

look at that 66% is THE best

Jim Kelly 60.1%

Are you referencing a pseudo-positive of RG3, whose career trajectory has dropped extraordinarily, to support EJ's pseudo-positive stat?

 

Remarkable.

 

But then again, RG3 also had an extraordinary YPA, and, as a real rookie, threw almost 300 more yards than EJ in his first 14 games, 3 more TD's, 7 less INT's, and 4 more rushing TD's all the way to a clear cut OROY nod.

Edited July 20, 2015 by FireChan

[metzelaars_lives]

 

Is that an official stat? I re-watched the game and Woods didn't have any drops but it didn't feel he was targeted as many times. Watkins had 2 key drops on 3rd down and 4 overall, Mike Williams had 2 drops, though one shouldn't count because it was a pass short of the 3rd down marker and in no way he was going to convert had he not dropped the ball. Chandler had one drop.

 

Thanks for the link.

Yeah it became an official stat a few years back. Not sure it would be on the back of a Topps football card but it's pretty hard to avoid when you're looking up WR stats.

[metzelaars_lives]

Tebow was over hyped. EJ was not.

 

 

Since when? Since some people (a) do it themselves to ridicule EJ and (b) are high on stats pertaining to total YARDS and give EJ crap because he passed for less than 200 yards, A GOOD stat in those measly passing yards (<200) was the 75+ completion percentage.

 

Here in DC all you heard in RGIII's first season was his 70+ completion% with no reference to total yards because he could (at the time) scramble.

 

http://www.pro-football-reference.com/leaders/pass_cmp_perc_career.htm

look at that 66% is THE best

Jim Kelly 60.1%

I don't know where you're going with this.

 

I'm still waiting for you to respond to this post from a few pages back- my retort to your assertion that because I think it's less than likely that EJ develops into a franchise QB but I also haven't totally given up on him that I smoke crack cocaine.

 

I'm gonna try this again here because- and I mean this with all due respect as you seem like a wonderful guy- I get the sense that you have difficulty grasping concepts that come rather easily to most others.

 

Have you ever gone out with girls before? I go out with girls a lot. I'm perpetually single (this is part of the Bills analogy so try and follow along). Anyway sometimes I'll go on a date with a girl and I'll say, ya know what? I don't really think this one's happening. Realistically, the chances of me marrying this girl are probably pretty slim. However, there were some things I did like about her- maybe we had a few things in common that could form the basis for something or maybe she simply had a great rack- so I would go out with her again, sure.

 

So in the above example, both of the following things hold true:

 

a) I think the chances of this girl and I ending up together long term are less than likely.

 

b) I would go out with her again; I haven't totally given up on the idea that perhaps on our next date we will uncover some synergies that weren't there on our first date and maybe, just maybe, there could be something there.

 

This is a tremendous analogy. If you can't understand this, I am at a complete loss and I can't help you.

 

I am guessing you will come back with a very combative two sentence response telling me in another one of your creative ways that I really hate EJ and I just won't admit it, making it blatantly obvious that you didn't even take the time to read what I wrote. We shall see.

Edited July 20, 2015 by metzelaars_lives

[Solomon Grundy]

I don't know where you're going with this.

 

I'm still waiting for you to respond to this post from a few pages back- my retort to your assertion that because I think it's less than likely that EJ develops into a franchise QB but I also haven't totally given up on him that I smoke crack cocaine.

 

I'm gonna try this again here because- and I mean this with all due respect as you seem like a wonderful guy- I get the sense that you have difficulty grasping concepts that come rather easily to most others.

 

Have you ever gone out with girls before? I go out with girls a lot. I'm perpetually single (this is part of the Bills analogy so try and follow along). Anyway sometimes I'll go on a date with a girl and I'll say, ya know what? I don't really think this one's happening. Realistically, the chances of me marrying this girl are probably pretty slim. However, there were some things I did like about her- maybe we had a few things in common that could form the basis for something or maybe she simply had a great rack- so I would go out with her again, sure.

 

So in the above example, both of the following things hold true:

 

a) I think the chances of this girl and I ending up together long term are less than likely.

 

b) I would go out with her again; I haven't totally given up on the idea that perhaps on our next date we will uncover some synergies that weren't there on our first date and maybe, just maybe, there could be something there.

 

This is a tremendous analogy. If you can't understand this, I am at a complete loss and I can't help you.

 

I am guessing you will come back with a very combative two sentence response telling me in another one of your creative ways that I really hate EJ and I just won't admit it, making it blatantly obvious that you didn't even take the time to read what I wrote. We shall see.

In my Dumb and Dumber voice "So u say there is a chance?"

[BillsFan-4-Ever]

I don't know where you're going with this.

 

I'm still waiting for you to respond to this post from a few pages back- my retort to your assertion that because I think it's less than likely that EJ develops into a franchise QB but I also haven't totally given up on him that I smoke crack cocaine.

 

you don't know? Well your explanation to the situation makes that obvious.

 

To me - anyone who thinks a person will not succeed really does not hold out hope for it happening.

that is all the explanation you will receive on this.

 

In my Dumb and Dumber voice "So u say there is a chance?"

I think he said it was less than 50%. a CYA type comment IMO.

[metzelaars_lives]

you don't know? Well your explanation to the situation makes that obvious.

 

To me - anyone who thinks a person will not succeed really does not hold out hope for it happening.

that is all the explanation you will receive on this.

 

I think he said it was less than 50%. a CYA type comment IMO.

So what you are saying is that when one thinks a scenario playing out is less than likely that they also they also think that scenario playing out is impossible?

 

So do you think the Blues will probably win the Stanley Cup next year? Oh so you're saying you are holding out no hope that it's possible they win the Stanley cup next year?

 

What about the Nationals wining the World Series this year? I don't think it's more than likely that they win the World Series this year but they certainly could.

 

Once again, you have painted yourself into a corner here and instead of saying, "oh ok, I see what you're saying," you continue to not read my posts, come back more and more combative each time and as a result, make yourself look more and more ridiculous with each response.

 

In less than 12 months I have spent countless hours (God knows why) arguing against your stances that:

 

1. The Bills do NOT have an elite defense; in order to be elite, they have to do it for several more years. In fact, my introduction to you as a poster was last season when you BWAHAHAHAHAHA'd me for pleasantly discussing with another poster how the Bills have an elite defense.

 

2. The Bills would have finished 12-4 last year had they not switched to Orton and let Manuel play the entire season.

 

3. Andrew Luck is not one of your top 5 young QB's in the game to build a franchise around.

 

4. And now, if you think something is less than likely to happen, that necessarily means that you think there is no chance of it happening. So the only odds people are allowed to give an event occurring are anywhere between 50-100% and then 0%. There is no such thing as someone really believing that there is a 20% of something happening.

[Dibs]

So what you are saying is that when one thinks a scenario playing out is less than likely that they also they also think that scenario playing out is impossible?

 

So do you think the Blues will probably win the Stanley Cup next year? Oh so you're saying you are holding out no hope that it's possible they win the Stanley cup next year?

 

What about the Nationals wining the World Series this year? I don't think it's more than likely that they win the World Series this year but they certainly could.

 

Once again, you have painted yourself into a corner here and instead of saying, "oh ok, I see what you're saying," you continue to not read my posts, come back more and more combative each time and as a result, make yourself look more and more ridiculous with each response.

 

In less than 12 months I have spent countless hours (God knows why) arguing against your stances that:

 

1. The Bills do NOT have an elite defense; in order to be elite, they have to do it for several more years. In fact, my introduction to you as a poster was last season when you BWAHAHAHAHAHA'd me for pleasantly discussing with another poster how the Bills have an elite defense.

 

2. The Bills would have finished 12-4 last year had they not switched to Orton and let Manuel play the entire season.

 

3. Andrew Luck is not one of your top 5 young QB's in the game to build a franchise around.

 

4. And now, if you think something is less than likely to happen, that necessarily means that you think there is no chance of it happening. So the only odds people are allowed to give an event occurring are anywhere between 50-100% and then 0%. There is no such thing as someone really believing that there is a 20% of something happening.

 

BillsFan-4-Ever seems to think that you have stated that you believe that EJ will not succeed. Have you stated this to be the case? If you have, I can understand why he is bashing on about it. I don't recall you saying that in this thread though....just that you don't believe that EJ WILL succeed(which is a totally fair position IMO). Perhaps BF4E is confused between the two statements, assuming them both to mean the same thing(which they obviously don't).

[NoSaint]

BillsFan-4-Ever seems to think that you have stated that you believe that EJ will not succeed. Have you stated this to be the case? If you have, I can understand why he is bashing on about it. I don't recall you saying that in this thread though....just that you don't believe that EJ WILL succeed(which is a totally fair position IMO). Perhaps BF4E is confused between the two statements, assuming them both to mean the same thing(which they obviously don't).

wait, you think this battle is over: "i dont think he will succeed" vs "i think he will not succeed"

[metzelaars_lives]

I hold all of the following statements to be true:

 

"he probably will not develop into our franchise QB"

 

"I don't think he will develop into our franchise QB"

 

"I think it is less than likely that he is our franchise QB two years from now"

 

"I have not given up on him"

 

"I don't want the Bills to cut him"

 

"I think it's possible that he does develop into our franchise QB"

 

Not sure what else I can say.

Edited July 20, 2015 by metzelaars_lives

[YoloinOhio]

 

Thanks for the link - I can't WAIT to see how it all plays out this year.

finally got a chance to listen. Extremely interesting stuff. Edited July 20, 2015 by YoloinOhio

[BillsFan-4-Ever]

So what you are saying is that when one thinks a scenario playing out is less than likely that they also they also think that scenario playing out is impossible?

 

3. Andrew Luck is not one of your top 5 young QB's in the game to build a franchise around.

 

Once again, you have painted yourself into a corner here and instead of saying, "oh ok, I see what you're saying," you continue to not read my posts, come back more and more combative each time and as a result, make yourself look more and more ridiculous with each response.

Oh I see what you are saying.

I just do not believe you are being honest enough to admit you do not want EJ as the starter and would only support him because you are a devoted Bills Fan,

 

I have Mr Luck @ #6. I am terribly sorry that this choice upsets you so.

 

Houston, Tenny and Jax are tough competition for the young QB to face 6 times a season.

Edited July 20, 2015 by BillsFan-4-Ever

[Dorkington]

Man.... still going

 

[Dibs]

wait, you think this battle is over: "i dont think he will succeed" vs "i think he will not succeed"

 

Absolutely no idea. Trying to figure it out. It all seems really strange as everything I recall from Met_lives in this thread is perfectly reasonable.....and can't understand why he is constantly being attacked.

[YoloinOhio]

Man.... still going

 

omg that is hilarious ^^

[IDBillzFan]

http://www.foxsports.com/college-football/outkick-the-coverage/how-a-rookie-head-coach-derailed-a-rookie-quarterback-then-vanished-with-4-million-071515

 

 

Edit - related article added

@RQUINN619: All-22 Breakdown of #Bills QB EJ Manuel: Does He Have What it Takes? http://t.co/mbW1IEiJcM http://t.co/TKorLN6vJ9

 

That was a particularly solid and completely coherent article...especially given that the name of the writer is Warren Sharp.

[metzelaars_lives]

Oh I see what you are saying.

I just do not believe you are being honest enough to admit you do not want EJ as the starter and would only support him because you are a devoted Bills Fan,

 

I have Mr Luck @ #6. I am terribly sorry that this choice upsets you so.

 

Houston, Tenny and Jax are tough competition for the young QB to face 6 times a season.

Dude you need to go back and take some logic classes. Because a QB happens to play in a division that is down at the moment (Houston's defense is gonna be top 5 by the way), that doesn't have anything to do with how good of a player he is. The AFC East might be the best division in football this year. Does that make Geno Smith a better QB? But agreed, let's not revisit that one.

 

Nope you are mistaken. I would love for EJ to emerge as the clear cut starter. I just don't think it's likely. That is all.

[Dorkington]

omg that is hilarious ^^

I never realized how tough life is until I started watching infomercials.

[Manther]

 

Nope. You guessed wrong. I thought it was a bad hire at the outset. I think he was a strange character and a strange Head Coach. I just give his credit where it is due. Just because you don't rate or like someone does not mean you have to think everything they do is bad. To give him zero credit for the defensive coordinator hires just makes you look bitter and foolish..... not unlike how Doug Marrone looks.

But, I am not giving him credit or taking it away from him...as I have said. I don't have the information. IMO you just like to argue. Don't be bitter, be better. Edited July 20, 2015 by Manther

[Coach Tuesday]

Come on guys, I really think we're going to figure out, together, in this thread,whether or not EJ is going to be a successful QB. Let's keep drilling down until we hit oil. No need to wait until training camp/preseason/actual NFL football - we can sort this out right now.