John from Riverside Posted July 18, 2015 Posted July 18, 2015 A massive handful maybe. Probably at least 24-25. Fair enough, but the fact that the current staff didn't draft him (although Doug Whaley certainly bet his career on him) has no influence on whether they choose him as starter. They will pick who they see as best. Huh?? Our team (and Whaley has even come out and said this in a interview I heard) has massive money invested.....and players that will need to be paid in the future in Marcel....Gilmore....Bradham....... Because we are not paying a Drew Breez type contract we have the money to put at other positions........we have now started extending that to the offensive side of the ball even in McCoy and Clay 1st rounders are now slotted.....and make less then franchise QB money.....this allows this all to work
FireChan Posted July 18, 2015 Posted July 18, 2015 Our team (and Whaley has even come out and said this in a interview I heard) has massive money invested.....and players that will need to be paid in the future in Marcel....Gilmore....Bradham....... Because we are not paying a Drew Breez type contract we have the money to put at other positions........we have now started extending that to the offensive side of the ball even in McCoy and Clay 1st rounders are now slotted.....and make less then franchise QB money.....this allows this all to work And if EJ turns out to be great, Dareus and the gang will all be gone. If your plan is to just get game manager QB's every four years from the draft, and use money elsewhere, uh, good luck. We haven't found one in 20, but we'll find two back-to-back?
John from Riverside Posted July 18, 2015 Posted July 18, 2015 And if EJ turns out to be great, Dareus and the gang will all be gone. If your plan is to just get game manager QB's every four years from the draft, and use money elsewhere, uh, good luck. We haven't found one in 20, but we'll find two back-to-back? Do you honestly believe that if EJ Manuel has a good season he is going to command a franchise QB contract? While I defend him there would be NO justification in giving him that type of contract.......he needs to show consistancy of being a good QB over a period of years before justifying that...... PERHAPS......all EJ ends up being is good enough to bridge the gap of drafting the next QB.....and allowing that QB a year to hold a clipboard. Like it or not...this is the blueprint that he bills have chosen......money going to the positions AROUND the QB
metzelaars_lives Posted July 18, 2015 Posted July 18, 2015 You should go back and check Firechan's posts....he plainly says he does not think EJ Manuel will succeed in the NFL.... If that isnt giving up on someone.....then what is the definiition? Dude I don't think EJ will succeed and I also haven't given up on him. The two concepts are not mutually exclusive.
The Wiz Posted July 19, 2015 Posted July 19, 2015 (edited) Dude I don't think EJ will succeed and I also haven't given up on him. The two concepts are not mutually exclusive.Exclusive no, but it means you have a predisposition to look at everything he does as negative. So even if he does something good you will just think "well that's expected of him" and when he does something bad you'll grab your pitch fork and torch and start lining up the mob. It's no different than being hopelessly optimistic about something that will fail but I'd rather look for the positives. Edited July 19, 2015 by The Wiz
Doc Posted July 19, 2015 Posted July 19, 2015 Do you honestly believe that if EJ Manuel has a good season he is going to command a franchise QB contract? While I defend him there would be NO justification in giving him that type of contract.......he needs to show consistancy of being a good QB over a period of years before justifying that...... PERHAPS......all EJ ends up being is good enough to bridge the gap of drafting the next QB.....and allowing that QB a year to hold a clipboard. Like it or not...this is the blueprint that he bills have chosen......money going to the positions AROUND the QB No way EJ asks for a franchise QB contract if he has just a good season this year. Maybe if he has an All-Pro one.
LB3 Posted July 19, 2015 Posted July 19, 2015 (edited) No way EJ asks for a franchise QB contract if he has just a good season this year. Maybe if he has an All-Pro one.It's possible. Ryan Tannehill just got a big contract for having one decent year. A year where they almost gave up on him no less. Edit: I don't think it's likely, just not out of the question. Edited July 19, 2015 by LBSeeBallLBGetBall
Doc Posted July 19, 2015 Posted July 19, 2015 It's possible. Ryan Tannehill just got a big contract for having one decent year. A year where they almost gave up on him no less. Edit: I don't think it's likely, just not out of the question. True, but Tannehill's started every game for his first 3 years, so you could argue he's earned his rookie contract.
John from Riverside Posted July 19, 2015 Posted July 19, 2015 Exclusive no, but it means you have a predisposition to look at everything he does as negative. So even if he does something good you will just think "well that's expected of him" and when he does something bad you'll grab your pitch fork and torch and start lining up the mob. It's no different than being hopelessly optimistic about something that will fail but I'd rather look for the positives. You said it better then I have been attempting to do it.......thanks Wiz
GunnerBill Posted July 19, 2015 Posted July 19, 2015 Better than 50% chance of being their team's starter in 2017? I would say it is less than half the league.... there are too many variables to predict two years ahead - especially with the older guys. That doesn't mean the percentage for a lot of others isn't still higher than the percentage for EJ however.
The Wiz Posted July 19, 2015 Posted July 19, 2015 (edited) You said it better then I have been attempting to do it.......thanks WizProbably the most unbiased way I could have put it. Either that or telling a girl you don't think it is going to work out but want to keep dating anyways; but that just sounded less practical in my head. Edited July 19, 2015 by The Wiz
LB3 Posted July 19, 2015 Posted July 19, 2015 True, but Tannehill's started every game for his first 3 years, so you could argue he's earned his rookie contract. That's a good point.
Solomon Grundy Posted July 19, 2015 Posted July 19, 2015 The thing about "consistency in the playoffs" is that the teams that win the Superbowl are not always consistent. Joe Flacco isn't consistent. Neither is Eli. They both have had great games against good opponents, and really bad games. Short of hitting on a top 5 generational guy, you want a guy who, at his best, can play great, and you accept that he's gonna have some games or years where he'll play worse and fall short. Flacco is a good QB for this reason. He's had great games before, but whether it's luck, streaking or what have you, he put together a couple of his best to win a championship. So did Eli. And both of those guys have had really bad years as well. Rodgers, Brady, P. Manning are all great because they are consistent. A down year for one of those guys is an above average year for a Flacco/Eli QB. But Flacco/Eli both have the potential on any given Sunday to outduel one of those guys if they play well. That's the kind of QB I want to target short term. That's why I want Cutler. His season stats are a little above average, but not spectacular. I get that. But is there a available QB with a better chance to throw for 400 yards and 4 TD's on a random game? If you had to pick one QB out of the guys available for trade/FA, who gives you the best odds of winning a shootout against a great QB? That's the main reason why I, personally, don't have as much faith in EJ as I would like in delivering a Superbowl. He's had some good performances with good team performances, no question. But I haven't seen him elevate to that point where I go, "Woah, we could outscore anyone with EJ playing like this." I know it's a tall order, but I wish I had seen that. In short, I want a guy who has had multiple "hot" games where he's flat out dominated. I don't care about his lows. Consistency be damned. Just give me someone with a shot to play at a Pro-Bowl level for a game. That could be enough, with some luck. How many playoff games has Jay Cutler won??
Solomon Grundy Posted July 19, 2015 Posted July 19, 2015 2.[/quote According to Google his record is 1-1. And how many years has he been in the league? To have 2 playoff appearances and this is the QB you admire? WOW!! Talk about low standards
FireChan Posted July 19, 2015 Posted July 19, 2015 2.[/quote According to Google his record is 1-1. And how many years has he been in the league? To have 2 playoff appearances and this is the QB you admire? WOW!! Talk about low standards Admire? Talk about a strawman. Are there any other ProBowl QB's with a playoff win and Conference Championship appearance more available than Cutler? I'll wait.
metzelaars_lives Posted July 19, 2015 Posted July 19, 2015 (edited) Exclusive no, but it means you have a predisposition to look at everything he does as negative. So even if he does something good you will just think "well that's expected of him" and when he does something bad you'll grab your pitch fork and torch and start lining up the mob. It's no different than being hopelessly optimistic about something that will fail but I'd rather look for the positives. This is getting ridiculously exhausting. How many ways can I say this? I am a Bills fan. I love the Bills more than is probably healthy. I am starving for good QB play. If it's EJ, great! That would be fantastic. From what I've seen however, I think it is less than likely that he develops into our franchise QB. I have no ulterior motives here guys. And I haven't given up on him. I just don't think it's probable. And guess what? Only two other people have had the balls to say that he will probably be our clear cut opening day starter in 2017. So evidently, everyone else agrees with me except the LB get ball guy and you know who. Let me try this: What did you guys think of Bryce Brown last year? Pretty costly fumble against Kansas City huh? Couldn't get much going against the Jets or the Dolphins, right? Aha!! You HATE him. You have given up on him. You have labeled him a bust. You are telling everyone that there is no chance he ever develops into a reliable starting RB in this league. You are rooting against him. You have a predisposition against him and will be lining up with a proverbial pitchfork if he ever misses a hole. OR do you recognize he has some great tools but he needs to get his head right and put it together? Is it fair to say that if Bryce Brown turns into a stud this year and runs wild if McCoy gets hurt that that you would be happy? Like you wouldn't root against him, right? But is it also fair to say that you kind of don't see that happening? You sure now? You sure you don't hate him? Do you want to pull out any statistics about how he ran really well behind the right guard on second down in the third quarter last year to prove to me that he's actually already quite good and I'm a jerk for even being skeptical about him? You still have the Marrone card ya know. Or you can tell me that Adrian Peterson and Jamal Charles have had bad games too. Any of this registering? And as far as the guy who said that only 4-5 QB's have a 50%+ chance of being their team's starting QB in two years? What? Edited July 19, 2015 by metzelaars_lives
Solomon Grundy Posted July 19, 2015 Posted July 19, 2015 ame="the skycap" post="3602798" timestamp="1437270821"] Admire? Talk about a strawman. Are there any other ProBowl QB's with a playoff win and Conference Championship appearance more available than Cutler? I'll wait. Didn't know Cutler was available! And if the Bills were to acquire him, that would be the end of Dareus and gang! With his games played to his playoff appearance ratio, I'd rather wait on EJ.
Dibs Posted July 19, 2015 Posted July 19, 2015 Dude I don't think EJ will succeed and I also haven't given up on him. The two concepts are not mutually exclusive. You've been pretty clear on that throughout the thread. I'm unsure why you are being jumped upon so much here....particularly since there have been several posters stating that they believe EJ has zero chance of success to argue with.
Beerball Posted July 19, 2015 Posted July 19, 2015 Our team (and Whaley has even come out and said this in a interview I heard) has massive money invested.....and players that will need to be paid in the future in Marcel....Gilmore....Bradham....... Because we are not paying a Drew Breez type contract we have the money to put at other positions........we have now started extending that to the offensive side of the ball even in McCoy and Clay 1st rounders are now slotted.....and make less then franchise QB money.....this allows this all to work Thank God we don't have a decent QB. ame="the skycap" post="3602798" timestamp="1437270821"] Admire? Talk about a strawman. Are there any other ProBowl QB's with a playoff win and Conference Championship appearance more available than Cutler? I'll wait. Off topic, but, I'm ready to ban the next person I see using "strawman" in their reply. (unless you're talking about TWoO)
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