BillsFan-4-Ever Posted July 18, 2015 Posted July 18, 2015 No one in their right mind would call the Chicago game "EJ excelling." Sorry. No chit Sherlock yes 167 is not stellar BUT when the team rushes 33- times for 193 yards and only pass 22 times what more should you say? How about EJ's 16 for 22 was a damn good 72.7% Completion ratio!!! they created a Bills negative thread ... why not go live in there and give the rest of us a rest from the hatred This is what I dont get.... What exactly in your mind would you consider "EJ Manuel Excelling"] Im watching that game right now on NFL rewind..... - A game on the road to start the season - Pretty much outplayed Cutler - He made passes when they were needed.....he made plays with his feet.... - He ran for a TD - He threw for a TD - He managed the team to a win in overtime.....a perfect time for a young QB to choke....but he did not What exactly will it take for you to think EJ excelled? Is it gonna take a 300 yard 4 touchdown performance? Abso!@#$inglutly NOTHING will change his mind. Not even a Super Bowl
FireChan Posted July 18, 2015 Posted July 18, 2015 No chit Sherlock yes 167 is not stellar BUT when the team rushes 33- times for 193 yards and only pass 22 times what more should you say? How about EJ's 16 for 22 was a damn good 72.7% Completion ratio!!! they created a Bills negative thread ... why not go live in there and give the rest of us a rest from the hatred Abso!@#$inglutly NOTHING will change his mind. Not even a Super Bowl John from Hemet says that EJ was excelling in that game. So you quoted him to agree with him after disagreeing with him?
BillsFan-4-Ever Posted July 18, 2015 Posted July 18, 2015 (edited) For me it would take him winning a football game. he's won a few already. sooooooooooo............. So he is not excelling unless he puts the team on his back.....with everyone sucking around him.......and wins the game all by himself Do you realize how idiotic that sounds? obviously not. I have no doubt that EJ had the game won when Stevie fumbled in the 4th. If I recall, he fumbled on or around the 30 yard line and there were roughly 30 seconds left. My only objection was saying he had the game won in OT had Chandler not fumbled. since it was fuzzy recollection 4th QTR the time of the play 28 seconds the fumble was at the ATL 44. (close to FG range in a dome) In OT the fumble was at the BUF 23 http://www.pro-football-reference.com/boxscores/201312010buf.htm Edited July 18, 2015 by BillsFan-4-Ever
GunnerBill Posted July 18, 2015 Posted July 18, 2015 Oh, and I guess GunnerBill you were a Marrone supporter. Keep fighting the good fight. Nope. You guessed wrong. I thought it was a bad hire at the outset. I think he was a strange character and a strange Head Coach. I just give his credit where it is due. Just because you don't rate or like someone does not mean you have to think everything they do is bad. To give him zero credit for the defensive coordinator hires just makes you look bitter and foolish..... not unlike how Doug Marrone looks.
Heitz Posted July 18, 2015 Posted July 18, 2015 7-17: Warren Sharp on Sports Radio 1270 with Rich Gaenzler (18:15) @1270TheFan Thanks for the link - I can't WAIT to see how it all plays out this year.
1billsfan Posted July 18, 2015 Posted July 18, 2015 (edited) I consider getting benched for a retiree who was not even in training camp a failure. The guy who made that decision also made the decision to quit his NFL head coaching job and became the offensive line coach for the Jaguars. Let that sink in for a second. Edited July 18, 2015 by 1billsfan
BillsFan-4-Ever Posted July 18, 2015 Posted July 18, 2015 (edited) So then why the love for Jay Cutler?? oh there are too many words to explain this. John from Hemet says that EJ was excelling in that game. So you quoted him to agree with him after disagreeing with him? you are truly an idiot. stop being an azz and just go to the negative thread or to the PPP. Edited July 18, 2015 by BillsFan-4-Ever
Bangarang Posted July 18, 2015 Posted July 18, 2015 he's won a few already. sooooooooooo............. obviously not. since it was fuzzy recollection 4th QTR the time of the play 28 seconds the fumble was at the ATL 44. (close to FG range in a dome) In OT the fumble was at the BUF 23 http://www.pro-football-reference.com/boxscores/201312010buf.htm Just went back and watched the plays. The Stevie fumbled happened with 23 seconds left in the game at the Atlanta 31. The fumble in OT occurred at our own 44. If Stevie doesn't fumble then we're looking at roughly a 48 yard FG which I would give really good odds for Carpenter to make in a dome.
FireChan Posted July 18, 2015 Posted July 18, 2015 oh there are too many words to explain this. you are truly an idiot. stop being an azz and just go to the negative thread or to the PPP. It just doesn't make any sense.
PlayoffsPlease Posted July 18, 2015 Posted July 18, 2015 The thing about "consistency in the playoffs" is that the teams that win the Superbowl are not always consistent. Joe Flacco isn't consistent. Neither is Eli. They both have had great games against good opponents, and really bad games. Short of hitting on a top 5 generational guy, you want a guy who, at his best, can play great, and you accept that he's gonna have some games or years where he'll play worse and fall short. Flacco is a good QB for this reason. He's had great games before, but whether it's luck, streaking or what have you, he put together a couple of his best to win a championship. So did Eli. And both of those guys have had really bad years as well. Rodgers, Brady, P. Manning are all great because they are consistent. A down year for one of those guys is an above average year for a Flacco/Eli QB. But Flacco/Eli both have the potential on any given Sunday to outduel one of those guys if they play well. That's the kind of QB I want to target short term. That's why I want Cutler. His season stats are a little above average, but not spectacular. I get that. But is there a available QB with a better chance to throw for 400 yards and 4 TD's on a random game? If you had to pick one QB out of the guys available for trade/FA, who gives you the best odds of winning a shootout against a great QB? That's the main reason why I, personally, don't have as much faith in EJ as I would like in delivering a Superbowl. He's had some good performances with good team performances, no question. But I haven't seen him elevate to that point where I go, "Woah, we could outscore anyone with EJ playing like this." I know it's a tall order, but I wish I had seen that. In short, I want a guy who has had multiple "hot" games where he's flat out dominated. I don't care about his lows. Consistency be damned. Just give me someone with a shot to play at a Pro-Bowl level for a game. That could be enough, with some luck. I agree with this except for one significant point. Flacco and Manning are not consistent across seasons, but they have both demonstrated 8 or 9 games streaks of extremely high level performance. Cutler really hasn't done that. One off great games wont get you through the playoffs.
GunnerBill Posted July 18, 2015 Posted July 18, 2015 The thing about "consistency in the playoffs" is that the teams that win the Superbowl are not always consistent. Joe Flacco isn't consistent. Neither is Eli. They both have had great games against good opponents, and really bad games. Short of hitting on a top 5 generational guy, you want a guy who, at his best, can play great, and you accept that he's gonna have some games or years where he'll play worse and fall short. Flacco is a good QB for this reason. He's had great games before, but whether it's luck, streaking or what have you, he put together a couple of his best to win a championship. So did Eli. And both of those guys have had really bad years as well. Rodgers, Brady, P. Manning are all great because they are consistent. A down year for one of those guys is an above average year for a Flacco/Eli QB. But Flacco/Eli both have the potential on any given Sunday to outduel one of those guys if they play well. That's the kind of QB I want to target short term. That's why I want Cutler. His season stats are a little above average, but not spectacular. I get that. But is there a available QB with a better chance to throw for 400 yards and 4 TD's on a random game? If you had to pick one QB out of the guys available for trade/FA, who gives you the best odds of winning a shootout against a great QB? That's the main reason why I, personally, don't have as much faith in EJ as I would like in delivering a Superbowl. He's had some good performances with good team performances, no question. But I haven't seen him elevate to that point where I go, "Woah, we could outscore anyone with EJ playing like this." I know it's a tall order, but I wish I had seen that. In short, I want a guy who has had multiple "hot" games where he's flat out dominated. I don't care about his lows. Consistency be damned. Just give me someone with a shot to play at a Pro-Bowl level for a game. That could be enough, with some luck. Other than the fact I don't agree that Cutler is anywhere close to a Flacco or an Eli in that regard I think the rest of this post is extremely sensible and makes a lot of valid points.
Wayne Cubed Posted July 18, 2015 Posted July 18, 2015 The thing about "consistency in the playoffs" is that the teams that win the Superbowl are not always consistent. Joe Flacco isn't consistent. Neither is Eli. They both have had great games against good opponents, and really bad games. Short of hitting on a top 5 generational guy, you want a guy who, at his best, can play great, and you accept that he's gonna have some games or years where he'll play worse and fall short. Flacco is a good QB for this reason. He's had great games before, but whether it's luck, streaking or what have you, he put together a couple of his best to win a championship. So did Eli. And both of those guys have had really bad years as well. Rodgers, Brady, P. Manning are all great because they are consistent. A down year for one of those guys is an above average year for a Flacco/Eli QB. But Flacco/Eli both have the potential on any given Sunday to outduel one of those guys if they play well. That's the kind of QB I want to target short term. That's why I want Cutler. His season stats are a little above average, but not spectacular. I get that. But is there a available QB with a better chance to throw for 400 yards and 4 TD's on a random game? If you had to pick one QB out of the guys available for trade/FA, who gives you the best odds of winning a shootout against a great QB? That's the main reason why I, personally, don't have as much faith in EJ as I would like in delivering a Superbowl. He's had some good performances with good team performances, no question. But I haven't seen him elevate to that point where I go, "Woah, we could outscore anyone with EJ playing like this." I know it's a tall order, but I wish I had seen that. In short, I want a guy who has had multiple "hot" games where he's flat out dominated. I don't care about his lows. Consistency be damned. Just give me someone with a shot to play at a Pro-Bowl level for a game. That could be enough, with some luck. I forget does bold mean your yelling or very important? Anyways, a very sensible post.
Doc Posted July 18, 2015 Posted July 18, 2015 he's won a few already. sooooooooooo............. obviously not. since it was fuzzy recollection 4th QTR the time of the play 28 seconds the fumble was at the ATL 44. (close to FG range in a dome) In OT the fumble was at the BUF 23 http://www.pro-football-reference.com/boxscores/201312010buf.htm Just went back and watched the plays. The Stevie fumbled happened with 23 seconds left in the game at the Atlanta 31. The fumble in OT occurred at our own 44. If Stevie doesn't fumble then we're looking at roughly a 48 yard FG which I would give really good odds for Carpenter to make in a dome. Yep. And the Bills had a TO left to run another play.
NoSaint Posted July 18, 2015 Posted July 18, 2015 You asked for a definition of excellent. There are excellent QB's in the NFL who do things like that constantly. Now that's not exactly my own definition, but playing competently and not puking on your shoes/not choking does not constitute "excellence." Decent? Sure. Excelling? Nah. If comparing him to the mannings and Bradys of the league- sure If comparing him to young developing qbs- there was a lot of good to point at. Reasonable expectations can make a world of difference.
metzelaars_lives Posted July 18, 2015 Posted July 18, 2015 1) No chit, yet you deny this fact and say you will "support" him as the #1. To you, EJ is a failure. FRT no one is saying EJ will be GREAT. We want to see him play and progress. Your bias is blinding you. (now say you have no idea what I am saying) 2) My point IF the fan support thing is AFU, then so too can the mediots about EJ. No one liked him from the get go. Nothing will change until he is given every opportunity to prove himself. That means with good coaching and not changing what they do week to week and moving away from what was working! Nope, no he isn't. I've never said that either. All I've said is that if you asked me right now, I think the chances of him developing into a franchise QB are less than 50%. I have used my barometer that he is the clear cut starter opening day 2017. I am still waiting for someone to tell me that they believe his odds of that are greater than 50%. Somehow I became the "EJ sucks" poster boy but I'm not even sure there are many people who even disagree with me. The crux of the problem is that no one reads what I actually write. he's won a few already. sooooooooooo............. obviously not. since it was fuzzy recollection 4th QTR the time of the play 28 seconds the fumble was at the ATL 44. (close to FG range in a dome) In OT the fumble was at the BUF 23 http://www.pro-football-reference.com/boxscores/201312010buf.htm Did you know that you are very frustrating to correspond with? You have to start reading peoples' entire posts. Literally well more than half of the things you write are responding to things that you are taking out of context. I am aware that EJ Manuel has won football games. If you would've posted the rest of what I wrote, it would've made way more sense. Just went back and watched the plays. The Stevie fumbled happened with 23 seconds left in the game at the Atlanta 31. The fumble in OT occurred at our own 44. If Stevie doesn't fumble then we're looking at roughly a 48 yard FG which I would give really good odds for Carpenter to make in a dome. I have stated numerous times that the Atlanta game was one of EJ's best as a pro. My issue is not with the 2013 season. It's primarily with the 2014 offseason, which NOBODY EVER TALKS ABOUT! Once again, consider who was making the decisions. The guy who thought Erik Pears was a starting RG in the NFL. The same guy who sat one of our best pass rushers out of a game in the 4th qtr of a game and said he didn't even know he wasn't out there. The same guy who used to punt on 3rd and inches in the opponents territory. Need I go on.... Dude every coach in the league benches EJ after that Houston game. Nobody likes Doug Marrone, we get it. But the whole blaming him for everything thing has now officially gone one step too far.
Doc Posted July 18, 2015 Posted July 18, 2015 Dude every coach in the league benches EJ after that Houston game. Nobody likes Doug Marrone, we get it. But the whole blaming him for everything thing has now officially gone one step too far. Any coach who came into the Houston game with the idea to pass on most plays and single block Watt should have benched himself.
FireChan Posted July 18, 2015 Posted July 18, 2015 I agree with this except for one significant point. Flacco and Manning are not consistent across seasons, but they have both demonstrated 8 or 9 games streaks of extremely high level performance. Cutler really hasn't done that. One off great games wont get you through the playoffs. True, but one or two game streaks could get you through the playoffs with this Bills roster. I forget does bold mean your yelling or very important? Anyways, a very sensible post. It was a post a mine from a couple of months ago, so quoted. If comparing him to the mannings and Bradys of the league- sure If comparing him to young developing qbs- there was a lot of good to point at. Reasonable expectations can make a world of difference. I'm comparing him to his competition around the league.
metzelaars_lives Posted July 18, 2015 Posted July 18, 2015 (edited) oh there are too many words to explain this. you are truly an idiot. stop being an azz and just go to the negative thread or to the PPP. Oh and one last thing for you. Since when did you become the cherry picking statistic guy (EJ's QB rating on first downs in September) when just a few short months ago you were TBD's resident "all that matters is W-L record" guy? I was disappointed when he was benched. I saw no upside in moving to Orton. I understood the switch, just didn't like it. When Orton started 3-1, I was happy because I'm a Bills fan. That said, I thought that EJ could have won those same games. Here were your thoughts in the offseason last year... This year, his leash would be shorter based on a couple factors: 1. This is a Super Bowl roster. The D is going to be the best in the league. The offensive weaponry they have is crazy. Not only are they good players, but a lot of them are the type that allow your QB to do even less to succeed. 2. We have another QB who could be the guy if given a chance in TT. They both have upside. If EJ wins the starting job and isn't playing well with all of the weapons, they should see how TT can do. I'll be extremely disappointed if Cassel wins the job because I do not think he could get it done. I could be wrong about him, but for me, there is nothing to get excited about with Matt Cassel. Good dialogue. I appreciate you not being argumentative. Thanks for pulling up that quote by the way. I guess all I'd say is that the San Diego and Houstion games constituted what I would call extenuating circumstances for two reasons. Number one, he was playing REALLY bad. Like two straight single digit QBR performances. My favorite stat, which I mentioned again here but nobody seems to pick up on, is that in the Houston game, Robert Woods was targeted 12 times and finished with 3 catches for 17 yards. And secondly, it became apparent through four games that the Bills had an elite defense- one good enough to carry the team to the playoffs if they could only get competent QB play. And I guess above all else, I just want to see the Bills make the freaking playoffs. And lastly, I agree that Matt Cassel doesn't get me excited but I'm also smart enough to realize that there is an extremely good chance he will end up giving the Bills the best chance to win this season. While Manuel played pretty decent against Chicago and Miami last year, he wasn't very exciting in those games either. The Bills NEED game manager play. If they get better than that, great, but I'm not banking on it from any of these three guys. I understand that the unknown comes with a bit of "excitement" but sucking is not exciting either. Edited July 18, 2015 by metzelaars_lives
C.Biscuit97 Posted July 18, 2015 Posted July 18, 2015 http://espn.go.com/blog/baltimore-ravens/post/_/id/12027/revisiting-flacco-troy-smith-controversy It just amazes me the lack of patience fans have with Qbs. Of course, we live in a world where folks were calling for Brady to be benched last year. This isn't totally about EJ. There are a lot of fans who can't handle the development phase of a young qb. I don't know if EJ will ever be a franchise qb but I don't think a young qb had a worst coaching staff to develop under. I think the guy has all the physical and mental tools to succeed. It's ok to have doubts but it seems some are crusading to put the guy down every chance they get. And my question is why?
Dennis in NC Posted July 18, 2015 Posted July 18, 2015 This article was BRILLIANT!! Maroon checked you into his doghouse, and you couldn't check out. Mike Williams, Kraig Urbik, Marquise Goodwin with 1 (yes, one) catch all year, and now we see the stats on EJ clear as day. It's extremely hard to reach any other conclusion than Maroon did this all deliberately, but to what end? That's the part that escapes me. Tear down Whaley? Try to lose? Too much of a control freak to let the players play? It doesn't really matter. POS is gone and good #$%ing riddance. It's too bad nobody knew how bad a coach he really was. I feel sorry for the Jags (not really). Happy trails Dougie, thanks again for taking the money and running, showing no class or character in the process. Hopefully now we get to see the real EJ (sorry EJ haterz). Bingo! Right on the nose. Oh, this one almost made me spit out my coffee: "Whoever the QB is this season, it's evident that he'll fare far better under Ryan/Roman than the Marrone/Hackett clown car." the Marrone/Hackett clown car - Brilliant!
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