Kelly the Dog Posted July 18, 2015 Posted July 18, 2015 He was overall terrible in 2014. 2 decent showings, and two complete debacles. Stats back that up, as well as every report from the team. A complete trend down from his 2013 campaign. You'll excuse me if that doesn't exactly inspire confidence. So did Glenn. And Wood. And Fred. And Spiller. And Urbik. And Pears. And Goodwin. And Chandler. See a trend?
FireChan Posted July 18, 2015 Posted July 18, 2015 (edited) So did Glenn. And Wood. And Fred. And Spiller. And Urbik. And Pears. And Goodwin. And Chandler. See a trend? Yes. A bunch of mediocre players, besides Freddy, who is ancient, and Glenn, who had issues all offseason, played poorly. Great. I don't begrudge you for buying into the Greg Roman silver bullet. I just don't buy it yet. Edited July 18, 2015 by FireChan
What a Tuel Posted July 18, 2015 Posted July 18, 2015 Yes. A bunch of mediocre players, besides Freddy, who is ancient, and Glenn, who had issues all offseason, played poorly. Great. I don't begrudge you for buying into the Greg Roman silver bullet. I just don't buy it yet. Players peformed at a lower level than they did the prior year. Watch Fred Jackson's game tape, he may be ancient but he still made things happen out of a broken system.
YattaOkasan Posted July 18, 2015 Posted July 18, 2015 (edited) They just dont make pro ready QBs any more ever (Aside from a few exceptions) Fixed that for you Yes. A bunch of mediocre players, besides Freddy, who is ancient, and Glenn, who had issues all offseason, played poorly. Great. I don't begrudge you for buying into the Greg Roman silver bullet. I just don't buy it yet. All the named players were on the offensive side of the ball. Including EJ, that's 9 players that regressed on one side of the ball (assuming you don't disagree that those players regressed). Seems to be indicative of a larger coaching problem. But yes Roman may not be silver bullet to fix the problems. Edited July 18, 2015 by YattaOkasan
Solomon Grundy Posted July 18, 2015 Posted July 18, 2015 He was overall terrible in 2014. 2 decent showings, and two complete debacles. Stats back that up, as well as every report from the team. A complete trend down from his 2013 campaign. You'll excuse me if that doesn't exactly inspire confidence. Own what? I don't believe EJ will succeed? Fine. I don't. Stats also show how he excelled until said coach decided to drastically change things. Listen to/read Warren Sharp, if you dare!
John from Riverside Posted July 18, 2015 Posted July 18, 2015 Fixed that for you All the named players were on the offensive side of the ball. Including EJ, that's 9 players that regressed on one side of the ball (assuming you don't disagree that those players regressed). Seems to be indicative of a larger coaching problem. But yes Roman may not be silver bullet to fix the problems. I think we may actuallly never know if Roman was the silver bullet given the upgrades to the offensive side of the ball - Incognito is a former pro bowler........they addressed the OG position in the draft.....addition by subtraction with Pears who did not belong at OG....offensive linemen in their 2nd years - Sammy in his second year (and injury free) - One of the best TE's in the NFL......and the postiion further addressed with college Mackey award winner - Top 5 NFL running back If the team starts having offensive success.....is it the silver bullett OC or all the new quality groceries that the Pegulas bought? -
metzelaars_lives Posted July 18, 2015 Posted July 18, 2015 (edited) If it was your call, would you have benched EJ last year or let him ride the season out? Great question. I would've benched him in the second half of the Houston game so not too far off there. And then toward the end of the year there were a few times where Orton was so bad that I thought they should've put EJ back in. I remember thinking it in the Packers game and then the Raiders game. And then not playing him for the entire Patriots game was a joke. Marrone was clearly obsessed with finishing 9-7 to bolster his marketability. You? I would add too that a lot of people on here like to pile on Marrone and say that he should have let EJ ride it out. When they made the switch to Orton after the Houston game was there one person on here that had an issue with it? And then after Orton played pretty damn good (all things considered) against Detroit and then very solid against New England, Minnesota and the Jets to get them to 5-3- by that point no one was talking about Manuel anymore. And one thing I find amusing is when people act like the JJ Watt INT was the only thing he did wrong in that game. As I've stated time and again, Robert Woods was targeted 12 times in that game and had 3 receptions for 17 yards. Stats also show how he excelled until said coach decided to drastically change things. Listen to/read Warren Sharp, if you dare! He excelled on first downs for the first two games? I just think that's a classic example of cherry picking a stat. I haven't listened yet but if it correlates to that silly article then I probably won't. Edited July 18, 2015 by metzelaars_lives
LB3 Posted July 18, 2015 Posted July 18, 2015 (edited) Great question. I would've benched him in the second half of the Houston game so not too far off there. And then toward the end of the year there were a few times where Orton was so bad that I thought they should've put EJ in. I remember thinking it in the Packers game and then the Raiders game. And then not playing him for the entire Patriots game was a joke. Marrone was clearly obsessed with finishing 9-7 to bolster his marketability. You? I thought that they should have stayed with EJ no matter what last year. Get a better picture of what he can possibly do. Edited July 18, 2015 by LBSeeBallLBGetBall
FireChan Posted July 18, 2015 Posted July 18, 2015 Stats also show how he excelled until said coach decided to drastically change things. Listen to/read Warren Sharp, if you dare! No one in their right mind would call the Chicago game "EJ excelling." Sorry.
metzelaars_lives Posted July 18, 2015 Posted July 18, 2015 (edited) I thought that they should have stayed with EJ no matter what last year. Get a better picture of what he can possibly do. I'd have to go back and check but after the successive San Diego and Houston games you were preaching patience with EJ and were disappointed when they made the switch to Orton? What about after Orton looked pretty good his first four games and went 3-1? So obviously you were much more concerned with EJ's development last year than trying to make the playoffs? See that's where you're going to have a tough time explaining something like that to, say Mario Williams for instance. Also what if he played just as poorly against Detroit (a third straight single digit QBR performance)? After paying Orton $5 million? With that defense they had/have? No way man. I mean I guess in hindsight I wish they let EJ play all season but at that point last year, I just wanted to make the freaking playoffs. So question for you- he's still only played 14 games- the same number he had after the Houston game last year, right? So I'm assuming you'd give him a similar leash this year? Even if they're losing close games where he absolutely sucks but the defense is keeping them in it? Edited July 18, 2015 by metzelaars_lives
John from Riverside Posted July 18, 2015 Posted July 18, 2015 No one in their right mind would call the Chicago game "EJ excelling." Sorry. This is what I dont get.... What exactly in your mind would you consider "EJ Manuel Excelling"] Im watching that game right now on NFL rewind..... - A game on the road to start the season - Pretty much outplayed Cutler - He made passes when they were needed.....he made plays with his feet.... - He ran for a TD - He threw for a TD - He managed the team to a win in overtime.....a perfect time for a young QB to choke....but he did not What exactly will it take for you to think EJ excelled? Is it gonna take a 300 yard 4 touchdown performance?
metzelaars_lives Posted July 18, 2015 Posted July 18, 2015 This is what I dont get.... What exactly in your mind would you consider "EJ Manuel Excelling"] Im watching that game right now on NFL rewind..... - A game on the road to start the season - Pretty much outplayed Cutler - He made passes when they were needed.....he made plays with his feet.... - He ran for a TD - He threw for a TD - He managed the team to a win in overtime.....a perfect time for a young QB to choke....but he did not What exactly will it take for you to think EJ excelled? Is it gonna take a 300 yard 4 touchdown performance? For me it would take him winning a football game. That was a team win if there ever was one. He played the role of game manager effectively in that game. That is not excelling. You know how sometimes in hockey a team gets outshot 45-20 but the goalie stands on his head and they steal one 2-1? That is excelling. The closest he came to what I would call winning them a football game was the Carolina game in 2013.
John from Riverside Posted July 18, 2015 Posted July 18, 2015 For me it would take him winning a football game. That was a team win if there ever was one. He played the role of game manager effectively in that game. That is not excelling. You know how sometimes in hockey a team gets outshot 45-20 but the goalie stands on his head and they steal one 2-1? That is excelling. The closest he came to what I would call winning them a football game was the Carolina game in 2013. So he is not excelling unless he puts the team on his back.....with everyone sucking around him.......and wins the game all by himself Do you realize how idiotic that sounds?
Kemp Posted July 18, 2015 Posted July 18, 2015 I would care more about these stats if I hadn't seen EJ overthrow, underthrow, and throw behind so many times.
Beerball Posted July 18, 2015 Posted July 18, 2015 So he is not excelling unless he puts the team on his back.....with everyone sucking around him.......and wins the game all by himself Do you realize how idiotic that sounds? You asked what it would take for someone to say that EJ excelled over the course of a game and you got an answer. I personally don't see anything idiotic in the response. Excelling isn't just making do, being ok; whatever phraseology you want to use. Excelling is taking control IMO. Go back and rewatch that game. This time imagine that an excellent (one who excels) NFL QB is taking snaps for the Bills. How did the game turn out in your mind?
1billsfan Posted July 18, 2015 Posted July 18, 2015 So he is not excelling unless he puts the team on his back.....with everyone sucking around him.......and wins the game all by himself Do you realize how idiotic that sounds? I’m a believer in Manuel, but I think he will need to win at least three games this year by putting the team on his back to solidify his starting position in 2016 (that and have the Bills in the playoffs of course). I think he will do that because he’s more mature, he has a professional OC and the offensive players are better around him. Having said that, just like all the haters, he never mentions the 2013 Falcons/Bills game with the season in balance and where EJ had the game won in the 4th quarter and in OT until fumbles after clutch passes to Stevie and Chandler. The team then went to Tampa and collectively played like they had checked out for the season.
WhitewalkerInPhilly Posted July 18, 2015 Posted July 18, 2015 I’m a believer in Manuel, but I think he will need to win at least three games this year by putting the team on his back to solidify his starting position in 2016 (that and have the Bills in the playoffs of course). I think he will do that because he’s more mature, he has a professional OC and the offensive players are better around him. Having said that, just like all the haters, he never mentions the 2013 Falcons/Bills game with the season in balance and where EJ had the game won in the 4th quarter and in OT until fumbles after clutch passes to Stevie and Chandler. The team then went to Tampa and collectively played like they had checked out for the season. Right, I had forgotten about that game. It really was one of his better ones, and I thought it was a sign of progress. It was absolutely not his fault that on back to back drives, where the offense was clicking and they were finally into game winning FG range that both of his receivers fumbled away the chance to win. I remember punching a concrete pillar waiting for the train home. It was that kind of game.
LB3 Posted July 18, 2015 Posted July 18, 2015 (edited) I'd have to go back and check but after the successive San Diego and Houston games you were preaching patience with EJ and were disappointed when they made the switch to Orton? What about after Orton looked pretty good his first four games and went 3-1? So obviously you were much more concerned with EJ's development last year than trying to make the playoffs? See that's where you're going to have a tough time explaining something like that to, say Mario Williams for instance. Also what if he played just as poorly against Detroit (a third straight single digit QBR performance)? After paying Orton $5 million? With that defense they had/have? No way man. I mean I guess in hindsight I wish they let EJ play all season but at that point last year, I just wanted to make the freaking playoffs. So question for you- he's still only played 14 games- the same number he had after the Houston game last year, right? So I'm assuming you'd give him a similar leash this year? Even if they're losing close games where he absolutely sucks but the defense is keeping them in it? I was disappointed when he was benched. I saw no upside in moving to Orton. I understood the switch, just didn't like it. When Orton started 3-1, I was happy because I'm a Bills fan. That said, I thought that EJ could have won those same games. Here were your thoughts in the offseason last year... ...EJ didn't really show me much to make me believe he's going to be a franchise QB. He can throw and he can run, but he appears to be sorely lacking in his quick decision making abilities. Needless to say, I hope I'm wrong. And I absolutely agree that he should be given all of 2014 to develop no matter what happens. Edited by metzelaars_lives, 29 March 2014 - 05:09 PM. This year, his leash would be shorter based on a couple factors: 1. This is a Super Bowl roster. The D is going to be the best in the league. The offensive weaponry they have is crazy. Not only are they good players, but a lot of them are the type that allow your QB to do even less to succeed. 2. We have another QB who could be the guy if given a chance in TT. They both have upside. If EJ wins the starting job and isn't playing well with all of the weapons, they should see how TT can do. I'll be extremely disappointed if Cassel wins the job because I do not think he could get it done. I could be wrong about him, but for me, there is nothing to get excited about with Matt Cassel. Edited July 18, 2015 by LBSeeBallLBGetBall
PlayoffsPlease Posted July 18, 2015 Posted July 18, 2015 Has any player in Bills history inspired more fan excuses for failure than EJ Manuel?
Bangarang Posted July 18, 2015 Posted July 18, 2015 I would like one person that claims that EJ "sucked" to back it up statistically. He didn't suck. He had good games, bad games, and everything in between. Statistically EJ was a bottom tier QB so if you're looking for numbers to show he wasn't any good then it wouldn't be very hard to do. I wouldn't say he sucked or was terrible overall because he did have some moments of competence. I'm in the "he just wasn't any good" side of things. Mediocre if you will. He wasn't Tebow or Gabbert bad but I'm not sure if that is supposed to be some sort of accomplishment or victory. Either way he has a lot to prove and this competition is likely his final chance to show he should start for us.
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