3rdnlng Posted August 29, 2015 Posted August 29, 2015 Let's hope for the sake of not becoming a nativistic, nationalist "far right" party that Robby's faction loses out. You're talking about winning but I was referring to coming together.
TakeYouToTasker Posted August 29, 2015 Posted August 29, 2015 You're talking about winning but I was referring to coming together. The two positions are incompatible, there is no coming together; nor should there be.
Ozymandius Posted August 29, 2015 Posted August 29, 2015 I never said that you have to win the Latino vote to win. Nope, never said that. What I said and implied is that you have to have a strategy and philosophy that is inclusive. Stick to your principles, push for stricter border security, policies that punish employers for hiring illegals etc. Trump's strategy IS inclusive of everyone, except illegals. He's overtly trying to reach out to blacks and legal Hispanics by saying you'll have more jobs and higher wages if the illegals are gone. He's also reaching out to disaffected voters and potential new voters who are sick of corrupt politicians and selling them on his independence from the corrupting influences. We'll see if it works, but Trump's umbrella is as wide as anyone's. but at the same time, make a concerted outreach to Latinos and let them know of all the benefits of conservatism, much like the LIBRE initiative from the Koch Brothers. I agree with this, but it should be a Step 2 after a Step 1 of pausing immigration, including legal immigration. Latinos have NEVER voted Republican. Notice below how H.W. Bush only got 30% of the Hispanic vote in 1988, despite Reagan's 1986 amnesty. Until you guys can find some sort of message that appeals to Latinos more than the Democratic message ("Freebies!"), we should stop importing Democratic voters.
Nanker Posted August 29, 2015 Posted August 29, 2015 "I've lived in California for thirty years, and the Latinos are the only ones that work hard here" Bill Maher Lol Bill Maher - a cartoon based life form.
Magox Posted August 29, 2015 Posted August 29, 2015 (edited) Trump's strategy IS inclusive of everyone, except illegals. He's overtly trying to reach out to blacks and legal Hispanics by saying you'll have more jobs and higher wages if the illegals are gone. He's also reaching out to disaffected voters and potential new voters who are sick of corrupt politicians and selling them on his independence from the corrupting influences. We'll see if it works, but Trump's umbrella is as wide as anyone's. I agree with this, but it should be a Step 2 after a Step 1 of pausing immigration, including legal immigration. Latinos have NEVER voted Republican. Notice below how H.W. Bush only got 30% of the Hispanic vote in 1988, despite Reagan's 1986 amnesty. Until you guys can find some sort of message that appeals to Latinos more than the Democratic message ("Freebies!"), we should stop importing Democratic voters. It's not inclusive of everyone, his rhetoric and policy proposals prove that. You can pretend that what he says only affects the minds of illegal immigrants, but the reality is that the overwhelming majority of Latino voters find him to be repulsive and rightfully so. And even though Trump would be able to draw from some segments of the population that typical GOP candidates could not draw from, it's actually very shallow. The numbers bare that out, in every single poll, there are many more people who dislike him than like him. And to your second point. Your reasoning for is all !@#$ed up. You are coming to the conclusion that there shouldn't be any more legal immigration because Republicans lose votes. What kind of backwards ass thinking is that? The reason why we want a good thriving immigration system is because any successful civilization depends on fresh human capital. Human capital that has the desire to be a productive force in our society. The vast majority don't come here so that they can aspire to be on welfare. I know that's the caricature that some of you would like to believe, but that's not the case. They largely come here to work, and just like many legal immigrants or native folks, they struggle to get by and if they are in California they use the welfare system provided to them by the state. If there is an issue with that, blame it on the state. You don't have to pander to Latinos to win 35% + (even though in this climate not sure 35% is possible) just have to convey the message that they can be part of the GOP, communicate to them that economic conservative principles will benefit their lives and employment prospects and that socially speaking they are lockstep on many of their issues. Bottom line, be inclusive in rhetoric and policy. Edited August 29, 2015 by Magox
keepthefaith Posted August 29, 2015 Posted August 29, 2015 Trump is winning and losing potential voters with every speech and interview. Giving Megyn Kelly the biz for asking a stupid question in the debate - Winning Rosie O'donnel line - winning Attacking her several times after the issue should have been over including calling her a bimbo while she was on the air - losing Being tough on the border and illegal immigration - winning Questioning if we should grant birthright citizenship to those that are abusing the law - winning Saying all illegals will be immediately deported and then they can come back in - losing Saying politicians are all talk and no action - winning Calling Jeb boring - winning Some of the more personal and vicious attacks on his opponents - losing Bringing up Hillary's email issue - winning Talking about Huma and calling Wiener a bad guy and a perv - winning Repeating that wiener is a perv and a loser several times instead of making his point about Hillary - losing Making America great again - winning Being aggressive with the media and attacking their liberal bias - winning Not articulating his positions well and with enough facts and numbers and dignity - losing ....and many many more examples of the same pattern.
Tiberius Posted August 29, 2015 Author Posted August 29, 2015 Trump is winning and losing potential voters with every speech and interview. Giving Megyn Kelly the biz for asking a stupid question in the debate - Winning I was watching her show and saw just how big Trump won. After a brief flap around on how rude he was she broke into this long segment on one murder in which an illegal was accused of killing a nice little white women. No wonder we have Trump! Fox news feeds this red meat to its mouth breathing, medicare using folks and what would anyone expect?
GG Posted August 30, 2015 Posted August 30, 2015 WTF? How are you tying me in to that? So if I don't pretend Michael Brown was a gentle giant who was shot down by racist cops for being black am I now an advocate for reinstituting Jim Crow? Or does this only apply to Hispanics? Talk to Ozy,he believes you understand what he;'s talking about. Rob just happens to know something about my Hola!-caust plan that you apparently don't and TYTT definitely doesn't.
3rdnlng Posted August 30, 2015 Posted August 30, 2015 The two positions are incompatible, there is no coming together; nor should there be. Keep your characters straight. Don't attribute someone else's opinions to another poster. Rob understands the frustration of the part of the Republican Party that is not part of the establishment or otherwise known as Democrat Lite. I said that Rob & Magox are quite similar and I've respected them both as good conservative posters. I also indicated that the way they have turned the rhetoric up is not conducive to understanding either position. I'll bet you that in all reality they aren't that far apart. Magox and I had a very similar conversation (actually several) maybe over the last year or two. He couldn't understand why I was adamant about securing the borders before any "comprehensive" deal was hatched. I didn't understand all the problems with mass deportation of illegals. After frank but civil discussion we are now if not in lock-step, pretty much in agreement. You see their rhetoric is what got them to this point, not their true beliefs. You know, I've been known to stir things up and be a little irreverent, but sometimes it's ok not to be the burr under the saddle and just be the salve. Think about that. Was the fanning of the flames here really all that necessary?
Ozymandius Posted August 30, 2015 Posted August 30, 2015 Your reasoning for is all !@#$ed up. You are coming to the conclusion that there shouldn't be any more legal immigration because Republicans lose votes. What kind of backwards ass thinking is that? lol, do you want to conserve traditional American society or not? Limiting immigration helps slow down the Democrats' transformation of this country and needs to be part of the plan (but obviously not the sole solution). The reason why we want a good thriving immigration system is because any successful civilization depends on fresh human capital. Human capital that has the desire to be a productive force in our society. Yes, that is certainly the textbook, idealistic version of immigration. The reality version of immigration is that it has supplied the Left with a voter base they need to destroy our country. This isn't directed at Latinos. I also don't want fruity, leftist Europeans coming over here, nor Asians who currently vote leftist, nor Muslims nor Africans if they vote leftist. Once you and GG and DC Tom have convinced these groups that leftism is bad, then we can un-pause immigration. If the Asians start voting Republican again, let's open the flow to them. If Magox has convinced Latinos to abandon socialism, we will start handing out green cards to them. You don't have to pander to Latinos to win 35% + (even though in this climate not sure 35% is possible) just have to convey the message that they can be part of the GOP, communicate to them that economic conservative principles will benefit their lives and employment prospects and that socially speaking they are lockstep on many of their issues. Bottom line, be inclusive in rhetoric and policy. 35% long-term isn't going to work.
Magox Posted August 30, 2015 Posted August 30, 2015 lol, do you want to conserve traditional American society or not? Limiting immigration helps slow down the Democrats' transformation of this country and needs to be part of the plan (but obviously not the sole solution). Yes, that is certainly the textbook, idealistic version of immigration. The reality version of immigration is that it has supplied the Left with a voter base they need to destroy our country. This isn't directed at Latinos. I also don't want fruity, leftist Europeans coming over here, nor Asians who currently vote leftist, nor Muslims nor Africans if they vote leftist. Once you and GG and DC Tom have convinced these groups that leftism is bad, then we can un-pause immigration. If the Asians start voting Republican again, let's open the flow to them. If Magox has convinced Latinos to abandon socialism, we will start handing out green cards to them. 35% long-term isn't going to work. Your motivations are morally bankrupt. And I will leave it at that.
Who is Yuri? Posted August 31, 2015 Posted August 31, 2015 Trump and Carson are neck and neck in Iowa. Who here can swallow their racism and back the good doctor? Lol.
B-Man Posted August 31, 2015 Posted August 31, 2015 (edited) It is rather obvious................except for some of the more obtuse. Its not about racism, or any other -ism In Iowa, the top three polling are Dr. Carson, Donald Trump, and Carly Fiorina. Now, putting aside your biases about the viewpoints of these three.................what do they all have in common ? That's right ..................none are from Washington or GOP elites. THAT IS WHAT the story is. . ADDED: HENCE THE POPULARITY OF TRUMP AND SANDERS: Poll: Nearly three-fourths of Americans unhappy with country’s direction. How’s that hopey-changey stuff workin’ out for ya? . Edited August 31, 2015 by B-Man
keepthefaith Posted August 31, 2015 Posted August 31, 2015 Trump and Carson are neck and neck in Iowa. Who here can swallow their racism and back the good doctor? Lol. If Carson were to win, he will be characterized by the left as not being a real black person with real black person values (heck they've already done that) so Republicans won't get credit for choosing a minority. They will still be racists.
TakeYouToTasker Posted August 31, 2015 Posted August 31, 2015 Trump and Carson are neck and neck in Iowa. Who here can swallow their racism and back the good doctor? Lol. That's pretty darned vapid. It's almost as though, given an inability to explain how socialism continues to create prosperity in the absence of market forces, individual liberty, and robust incentives to innovate; you've instead decided to call everyone who doesn't agree with you racist. A shame, that. This board is starved for intellectually honest liberals. You could have filled a niche.
IDBillzFan Posted August 31, 2015 Posted August 31, 2015 Trump and Carson are neck and neck in Iowa. Who here can swallow their racism and back the good doctor? Lol. Says the guy whose party calls every black conservative an Uncle Tom Porch Monkey.
....lybob Posted August 31, 2015 Posted August 31, 2015 Says the guy whose party calls every black conservative an Uncle Tom Porch Monkey. It's republicunts who throw around President porch monkey.
TakeYouToTasker Posted August 31, 2015 Posted August 31, 2015 It's republicunts who throw around President porch monkey. Source?
IDBillzFan Posted August 31, 2015 Posted August 31, 2015 It's republicunts who throw around President porch monkey. Hell, I remember one of your progressive nutbags named Warren Ballentine calling Juan Williams a porch monkey at the end of an O'Reilly segment, and Juan is a freaking liberal. You simply can not accept that people criticize Barry not for the color of his skin, but by the complete and utter ineptitude he displays on virtually a daily basis. I don't blame you. If I were a SoProg, I'd be embarrassed at this point as well.
....lybob Posted August 31, 2015 Posted August 31, 2015 Hell, I remember one of your progressive nutbags named Warren Ballentine calling Juan Williams a porch monkey at the end of an O'Reilly segment, and Juan is a freaking liberal. You simply can not accept that people criticize Barry not for the color of his skin, but by the complete and utter ineptitude he displays on virtually a daily basis. I don't blame you. If I were a SoProg, I'd be embarrassed at this point as well. The republicunt party is full of racists who go to bed every night worried they may wake up to find they are a minority and may be treated like they treat minorities. That's what a third of your party is about, then there's a third who believe the great sky daddy is watching their every move just waiting to punish them if they don't do their best to enforce bronze age wisdom on everyone- the rest are just sociopaths.
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