Augie Posted July 17, 2015 Posted July 17, 2015 We don't know if it was before or after but the report is he put his hands around the kid's throat. We don't know whether it was very serious or not at all, how long, what precipitated it, what happened after, other than he helped the kids look for their pole in the water. Not that it matters, but I hope victim #2 was not another tiny person. Beating up a band of little people is just wrong in so many ways.
NoSaint Posted July 17, 2015 Posted July 17, 2015 We don't know if it was before or after but the report is he put his hands around the kid's throat. We don't know whether it was very serious or not at all, how long, what precipitated it, what happened after, other than he helped the kids look for their pole in the water. Do we even know the last bit as fact, or is it rumor still?
Kelly the Dog Posted July 18, 2015 Posted July 18, 2015 Do we even know the last bit as fact, or is it rumor still? I don't know what if anything is fact, other that Kromer hit one kid and that there was some red mark and swelling but it wasn't bad enough for a felony charge. That's about the only facts we know. The kids stories are just their side. The cops wouldn't have arrested Kromer if he didn't hit one. We can assume Zachary did something because later they filed charges.
DC Tom Posted July 18, 2015 Posted July 18, 2015 I don't know what if anything is fact, other that Kromer hit one kid and that there was some red mark and swelling but it wasn't bad enough for a felony charge. That's about the only facts we know. The kids stories are just their side. The cops wouldn't have arrested Kromer if he didn't hit one. We can assume Zachary did something because later they filed charges. Sure they could have. They didn't need to know he hit anyone, they just needed a reasonable suspicion, or a reasonable concern of future violence.
What a Tuel Posted July 18, 2015 Posted July 18, 2015 I just feel like with Zachery being charged it goes from Aaron flying off of the handle for no apparent reason to something more that has not yet been explained. This should give people pause from shouting for his firing but it won't,
BarleyNY Posted July 18, 2015 Posted July 18, 2015 I just feel like with Zachery being charged it goes from Aaron flying off of the handle for no apparent reason to something more that has not yet been explained. This should give people pause from shouting for his firing but it won't, Zach's action could have been anything from aggression toward the kid to trying to keep him from getting punched by his dad too. Or anything in between. It really doesn't change anything regarding Aaron Kromer.
Augie Posted July 18, 2015 Posted July 18, 2015 I just feel like with Zachery being charged it goes from Aaron flying off of the handle for no apparent reason to something more that has not yet been explained. This should give people pause from shouting for his firing but it won't, There should be plenty of pause - we don't know squat! Maybe it turns out he should be fired and jailed... or maybe it's no big deal. People calling for action without knowing all the facts is silly. If the Bills know more than we do, and feel it's enough, they will act. We are all just guessing. But you're right, people are going to want action regardless of how uninformed we are.
Gugny Posted July 18, 2015 Posted July 18, 2015 Not that it matters, but I hope victim #2 was not another tiny person. Beating up a band of little people is just wrong in so many ways. You are not alone in thinking this ...
NoSaint Posted July 18, 2015 Posted July 18, 2015 Zach's action could have been anything from aggression toward the kid to trying to keep him from getting punched by his dad too. Or anything in between. It really doesn't change anything regarding Aaron Kromer. Though the development highlights how little many knew when they formed aggressive stances. And why patience might be wise.
What a Tuel Posted July 18, 2015 Posted July 18, 2015 There should be plenty of pause - we don't know squat! Maybe it turns out he should be fired and jailed... or maybe it's no big deal. People calling for action without knowing all the facts is silly. If the Bills know more than we do, and feel it's enough, they will act. We are all just guessing. But you're right, people are going to want action regardless of how uninformed we are. I agree. This leads me to wonder if the Pegula's will be the type that deem Kromer to still have a place in the organization or not based on the facts they hold on the case that most of us do not. Or will they be they type of Owner's that bow to public pressure that the "not on my team" people exert who may never know the unbiased, and unspun facts of the case, and the context in which they took place. I have a deep confidence that they will be the 1st type. Though the development highlights how little many knew when they formed aggressive stances. And why patience might be wise. Exactly my thought.
PlayoffsPlease Posted July 18, 2015 Posted July 18, 2015 (edited) I agree. This leads me to wonder if the Pegula's will be the type that deem Kromer to still have a place in the organization or not based on the facts they hold on the case that most of us do not. Or will they be they type of Owner's that bow to public pressure that the "not on my team" people exert who may never know the unbiased, and unspun facts of the case, and the context in which they took place. I have a deep confidence that they will be the 1st type. Exactly my thought. What special information do you think the Pegula's will receive? Will the state attorney give them non-public information? Will the Pegula's interview Kromer's accusers themselves in order to form their own judgements? I am guessing Kromer's lawyer is advising him not to discuss the case with anyone including his employers, so I doubt that he is providing any real information. So far they have put Kromer on paid leave. That is a bit of a bow to public pressure. Nice for Kromer to get paid, but once camp starts puts the team at a slight disadvantage vs. teams that have their entire coaching staff available. That is the crux of the problem, are the Pegula's more committed to Kromer and other personnel or are they more committed to winning if the situation becomes a choice between those two options. As a famous Bills coach once said, winning is hard in the NFL. It seems as though teams that make winning the highest priority win more often. Edited July 18, 2015 by PlayoffsPlease
Augie Posted July 18, 2015 Posted July 18, 2015 What special information do you think the Pegula's will receive? The NFL has their own investigators and there are other ways of gaining information. They already know more than we do, because they're not just reading newspapers. They are on the inside. We are on the outside. Do you really think they DON'T already know more than we do? And it's probably STILL not enough.
What a Tuel Posted July 18, 2015 Posted July 18, 2015 What special information do you think the Pegula's will receive? Will the state attorney give them non-public information? Will the Pegula's interview Kromer's accusers themselves in order to form their own judgements? I am guessing Kromer's lawyer is advising him not to discuss the case with anyone including his employers, so I doubt that he is providing any real information. So far they have put Kromer on paid leave. That is a bit of a bow to public pressure. Nice for Kromer to get paid, but once camp starts puts the team at a slight disadvantage vs. teams that have their entire coaching staff available. That is the crux of the problem, are the Pegula's more committed to Kromer and other personnel or are they more committed to winning if the situation becomes a choice between those two options. As a famous Bills coach once said, winning is hard in the NFL. It seems as though teams that make winning the highest priority win more often. They have access to interview Kromer and probably his kid for one, and as Augie said the NFL has their own investigators. I am 100% sure the well of information about the situation goes far deeper than us. That's a good point, but as far as I know nothing is happening in the football world at this point, since training camp starts in a few weeks. I've also read speculation his successor would be someone already on staff, so they are likely already taking action so that the team isn't at a loss.
Maury Ballstein Posted July 18, 2015 Posted July 18, 2015 last year at this time we were hit with Kiko tearing his ACL, Dareus arrested twice in two months, and looking at a QB trio going into camp of EJ, Thad and Tuel. We survived and were 1 game away from making the playoffs. So I'm not going to go all "doomed" either. It's not ideal but at the end of the day it's an OL coach. This. They are on the inside. We are on the outside. Do you really think they DON'T already know more than we do?. Speak for yourself outsider. I'm in !
3rdand12 Posted July 18, 2015 Posted July 18, 2015 The NFL has their own investigators and there are other ways of gaining information. They already know more than we do, because they're not just reading newspapers. They are on the inside. We are on the outside. Do you really think they DON'T already know more than we do? And it's probably STILL not enough. This is quite true. The Bills have their own people on it. I cant see the Pegulas abandoning Kromer and family. even if he was wrong in his actions. they will want to get him the proper help. I dont think public pressure means much. The NFL on the other hand?
BarleyNY Posted July 18, 2015 Posted July 18, 2015 Though the development highlights how little many knew when they formed aggressive stances. And why patience might be wise.Meh. Sometimes people jump the gun (Duke lacrosse team) and sometimes calls for patience and more information are just the only thing someone on the wrong side of an argument has left (tobacco industry). At some point you've got to make a call on something even if it always has an asterisk indicating there might someday be cause to change your mind/stance. Enough has come out on this that Aaron Kromer looks really freaking bad. The addition of charges against his son doesn't help his case at all. I'm not sure what else can come out to exonerate him either. The self defense claim is lame. Besides the size and age difference between him at the minor he punched, I'd love to hear his explanation of the situation. How it was so dark he couldn't see the size or approximate age of the minors, but was able to correctly identify his chairs and connect his fist with one of their faces. It just doesn't make much sense. He'll likely get a fine from the county and maybe a short parole. He is unlikely to spend any time in jail at all. As for his NFL job, he's probably going to get fired (which is exactly what would happen to an expendable player) although he might skate by with a lengthy suspension. As has been often stated, working in the NFL is a privilege. People lose that privilege for stuff like this.
NoSaint Posted July 18, 2015 Posted July 18, 2015 Meh. Sometimes people jump the gun (Duke lacrosse team) and sometimes calls for patience and more information are just the only thing someone on the wrong side of an argument has left (tobacco industry). At some point you've got to make a call on something even if it always has an asterisk indicating there might someday be cause to change your mind/stance. Enough has come out on this that Aaron Kromer looks really freaking bad. The addition of charges against his son doesn't help his case at all. I'm not sure what else can come out to exonerate him either. The self defense claim is lame. Besides the size and age difference between him at the minor he punched, I'd love to hear his explanation of the situation. How it was so dark he couldn't see the size or approximate age of the minors, but was able to correctly identify his chairs and connect his fist with one of their faces. It just doesn't make much sense. He'll likely get a fine from the county and maybe a short parole. He is unlikely to spend any time in jail at all. As for his NFL job, he's probably going to get fired (which is exactly what would happen to an expendable player) although he might skate by with a lengthy suspension. As has been often stated, working in the NFL is a privilege. People lose that privilege for stuff like this. You don't even know that'll be his defense. It was a tweet citing unnamed sources thought to be kromers camp wasn't it?
Doc Posted July 18, 2015 Posted July 18, 2015 I doubt he does jail time, gets hit with a civil suit that he settles, and see at-worst a 4-game suspension.
BarleyNY Posted July 18, 2015 Posted July 18, 2015 You don't even know that'll be his defense. It was a tweet citing unnamed sources thought to be kromers camp wasn't it? He's already admitted to punching the minor. Name one other possible defense. One last point of clarification - what I posted is how this is very likely to go down. I'm not advocating jumping the gun. The legal situation needs to play out first. If new information comes to light, obviously it needs to be considered.
NoSaint Posted July 18, 2015 Posted July 18, 2015 He's already admitted to punching the minor. Name one other possible defense. One last point of clarification - what I posted is how this is very likely to go down. I'm not advocating jumping the gun. The legal situation needs to play out first. If new information comes to light, obviously it needs to be considered. Did he even admit that? I understand your point, but I guess my counter would be that in many cases people get so overwhelmed by unnamed sources and anonymous info in tweets that not only do they make decisions with incomplete but often non-factual information that they believe to be truth.
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