MDH Posted July 14, 2015 Posted July 14, 2015 I'm surprised Bucky Gleason, normally a rational writer, is advocating the knee-jerk firing of Kromer and the hiring of Morris. Personally, I don't feel we know enough yet to call for the firing of Kromer. Sometimes the "other side of the story" makes a huge difference in our judgments and we haven't heard it yet. And even if Kromer does indeed deserve termination - a distinct possibility - would Morris be the right choice? How did the OL perform last year? I agree with this. I'm all for waiting for all the facts to be revealed before deciding how I feel about this issue (and want the Bills to do the same) though it's pretty disturbing all the posts in this thread who make the assumption that most of the blame lies with the "punks" and they had it coming. And posters on this board think Pats' homers are the only ones who are delusional.
YoloinOhio Posted July 14, 2015 Author Posted July 14, 2015 (edited) Makes sense to me but we just don't know for sure. Kromer wanted to "catch" them using his beach chairs. For all we know the kids may have used them, returned them sloppily to where they found them but Kromer was a hothead about it. There are most definitely people who get pretty worked up about someone using their stuff, even if they use it respectfully. Kromer should have just brought them inside instead of leaving them near the beach access point. In the end, the whole situation was over a couple of stupid beach chairs that weren't being stolen or destroyed. Hope it was worth it to Kromer. Maybe the kids were acting like punks, but it would have to be a pretty large degree and involve direct threats by them to exonerate Kromer, IMO. Exonerating him of doing anything wrong and not firing him are two different things. He can be held accountable through suspension/treatment/fine/whatever and still keep his job depending on what the real story is. This is what we are awaiting. Edited July 14, 2015 by YoloinOhio
BarleyNY Posted July 14, 2015 Posted July 14, 2015 (edited) It's obvious you haven't been around lots of fights then. I've stayed around after a fight between a friend and some randoms just to cool things over after they have been separated. There were 3 minors, it's quite possible that only one of them was in the altercation with Aaron Kromer, seeing as only one was punched. Maybe he was the tough guy, mouthing off etc. They get into a bit of a scuffle while the other 2 minors and Zach Kromer attempt to separate them. After the altercation it's completely possibly that the other 2 minors, who weren't punched or pushed, hung around with Zach Kromer. That account of events also makes perfect sense and is completely reasonable. Except that there have been no reports of physical aggression (or even retaliation) by any of the minors. If one had even attempted to hit Kromer (or his son) we would know about it by now. As for any of the kids mouthing off, etc. we haven't really heard about that either, but that's not pertinent to the discussion anyway. That's because a kid mouthing off to an adult doesn't give cause for the adult to punch the kid, push him down and throw his fishing pole into the ocean. Even if the kids were using his chairs without permission and even if they were going to leave them on the beach instead of returning them. You still can't punch somebody over that - especially a minor. And this discussion doesn't even get into whether or not Kromer threatened the kids and their families. Edited July 14, 2015 by BarleyNY
DanInUticaTampa Posted July 14, 2015 Posted July 14, 2015 i think VERY few, if any, are saying what he did was likely to be fully justified legally and/or morally. just that this image a hurricane kromer blowing in on these kids for no reason likely isnt accurate. like you said, if he set a "trap" it probably happened before too. whether they caused damage previously, or mouthed off that night, or both.... odds are theres some context that changes it from absolute crazy psychopath to run of the mill hot head that will plea down to just about nothing legally, and get some light to moderate league punishment (thats probably triple what he wouldve gotten from them 2-3 years ago even). I think that is how it will play out. Unless something really crazy happens, Im thinking a 2-4 game suspension is the worst case scenario. I think it is possible for the bills to cut ties with him, but we need OL help, and he is good at what he does. Bills are also a little more forgiving than other teams
Kelly the Dog Posted July 14, 2015 Posted July 14, 2015 This type of statement makes no sense to me. If the kids were acting obnoxious and screwing with Kromer, and he went off and hit one, there is more of a chance that the son would try and discuss it and help the kids out. The son could've known his dad lost his cool and was trying to smooth it over so maybe the cops weren't called. Or both. People always act as if it's totally black and white. Chances are in this case both sides were jerks.
BarleyNY Posted July 14, 2015 Posted July 14, 2015 Exonerating him of doing anything wrong and not firing him are two different things. He can be held accountable through suspension/treatment/fine/whatever and still keep his job depending on what the real story is. This is what we are awaiting. This is the first big issue of this sort for the Pegulas. It'll be interesting to see how they handle it. They haven't done anything rash so that's a good sign. We will see where it goes in the days to come.
WhitewalkerInPhilly Posted July 14, 2015 Posted July 14, 2015 @TBNbucky: Column: Kromer not worth keeping around via @TheBuffaloNews http://t.co/1zSy2WmOd1 Well if I had any doubts before, this settles it: Kromer must stay. I generally find that the exact opposite of what Bucky Gleason thinks serves me well.
Wayne Cubed Posted July 14, 2015 Posted July 14, 2015 Except that there have been no reports of physical aggression (or even retaliation) by any of the minors. If one had even attempted to hit Kromer (or his son) we would know about it by now. As for any of the kids mouthing off, etc. we haven't really heard about that either, but that's not pertinent to the discussion anyway. That's because a kid mouthing off to an adult doesn't give cause for the adult to punch the kid, push him down and throw his fishing pole into the ocean. Even if the kids were using his chairs without permission and even if they were going to leave them on the beach instead of returning them. You still can't punch somebody over that - especially a minor. And this discussion doesn't even get into whether or not Kromer threatened the kids and their families. No we wouldn't know about it now. Both Aaron and Zach Kromer's statements have been redacted from the police report. The statements from the minors have been redacted. All we know as of this moment is the initial report from the responding officer, who didn't witness any of this, and all he did was write down what was being accused. The facts aren't all out there.
YoloinOhio Posted July 14, 2015 Author Posted July 14, 2015 (edited) I think that is how it will play out. Unless something really crazy happens, Im thinking a 2-4 game suspension is the worst case scenario. I think it is possible for the bills to cut ties with him, but we need OL help, and he is good at what he does. Bills are also a little more forgiving than other teams I don't know about that, this is first time we have seen someone get arrested since the Pegulas took over. We will see what they do. But I don't undertand the moral high horse that some of the media has. The Bills don't need to do anything more than they need to do per the NFL rules. If the NFL suspends him, fine. If they don't, the Bills don't need to do anything IMO. We aren't trying to win the PR or Morality Bowl. if he is fired, then I believe it will be justified based on his actions (that we are still waiting for both sides of the story on). If he's not, I'm not going to whine like some of the media seem to be doing that we need to set a standard and blah blah blah. No, we need to win games. No one will care when we are 6-10 that the Bills did the right thing for that poor kid who had a red mark on his eye for stealing lawn chairs. Edited July 14, 2015 by YoloinOhio
Kelly the Dog Posted July 14, 2015 Posted July 14, 2015 No we wouldn't know about it now. Both Aaron and Zach Kromer's statements have been redacted from the police report. The statements from the minors have been redacted. All we know as of this moment is the initial report from the responding officer, who didn't witness any of this, and all he did was write down what was being accused. The facts aren't all out there. Exactly. For all we know it was the dad of the kid that got hit (he was the one that filed the complaint) who wasn't there and thought he could make some money off an NFL guy. That's far fetched but possible. There are 100+ possible scenarios. There is no doubt Kromer did something stupid, but the degree is totally in question. There is no doubt something provoked a guy to do this stupid thing but the degree of provocation is totally in question. Kromer's son helping the kids proves absolutely nothing other than he's probably a decent kid. I don't know about that, this is first time we have seen someone get arrested since the Pegulas took over. We will see what they do. But I don't undertand the moral high horse that some of the media has. The Bills don't need to do anything more than they need to do per the NFL rules. If the NFL suspends him, fine. If they don't, the Bills don't need to do anything IMO. We aren't trying to win the PR or Morality Bowl. if he is fired, then I believe it will be justified based on his actions (that we are still waiting for both sides of the story on). If he's not, I'm not going to whine like some of the media seem to be doing that we need to set a standard and blah blah blah. No, we need to win games. No one will care when we are 6-10 that the Bills did the right thing for that poor kid who had a red mark on his eye for stealing lawn chairs. Well, that's not true. They needed to release Dareus when he drove his car into a tree.
Canadian Bills Fan Posted July 14, 2015 Posted July 14, 2015 Depending on how old the kid is who got punched, does anyone else think the worst thing Kromer did was threaten to kill the kids family? I mean he could argue self defense or protecting his property from theft but I dont think there is anything he can say to justify that threat CBF
YoloinOhio Posted July 14, 2015 Author Posted July 14, 2015 Bills will weigh facts before any decision on Kromer http://bills.buffalonews.com/2015/07/13/bills-will-weigh-facts-before-any-decision-on-kromer/
Kelly the Dog Posted July 14, 2015 Posted July 14, 2015 Depending on how old the kid is who got punched, does anyone else think the worst thing Kromer did was threaten to kill the kids family? I mean he could argue self defense or protecting his property from theft but I dont think there is anything he can say to justify that threat CBF Plus it was clearly an idle threat not a real one, because as far as we know the family is still living.
WhitewalkerInPhilly Posted July 14, 2015 Posted July 14, 2015 Depending on how old the kid is who got punched, does anyone else think the worst thing Kromer did was threaten to kill the kids family? I mean he could argue self defense or protecting his property from theft but I dont think there is anything he can say to justify that threat CBF If it really happened, then yes. But that doesn't jive with what else we've heard IMHO. A guy expects a bunch of teenagers, waits for them, confronts them, hits one, throws his fishing gear into the ocean and THEN tries to threaten the guy into silence? I have no proof of course, but it SOUNDS like something a scared and pissed off teenager would add at the end of a story to explain to his dad how he got a black eye...who was actually the one who made the complaint.
NoSaint Posted July 14, 2015 Posted July 14, 2015 (edited) I mean he could argue self defense or protecting his property from theft but I dont think there is anything he can say to justify that threat is there a reason that we should need the comment justified? odds are hes not getting off totally cleared - odds are we need to accept people do dumb stuff sometimes more than justification for it. Edited July 14, 2015 by NoSaint
LB3 Posted July 14, 2015 Posted July 14, 2015 (edited) The scenario I keep envisioning is much like the skater vs security guard videos you can see online. A group of kids messing around where they shouldn't (in this case, with something they shouldn't) and a security guard (Kromer) confronts them. The kids don't take him seriously and just make fun of the crazy old man who cares way too much. Things get heated. The security guard who didn't grab/hit the kid (Kromer's son), sticks around to do damage control after the confrontation. Edited July 14, 2015 by LBSeeBallLBGetBall
Jauronimo Posted July 14, 2015 Posted July 14, 2015 This is a sticky situation for sure, but if I were in Kromer's place, with everything that has been publicized so far, the gravity of the allegations, and the distraction to the team and the organization this fiasco has caused, I'd probably kill that kids whole family.
LB3 Posted July 14, 2015 Posted July 14, 2015 This is a sticky situation for sure, but if I were in Kromer's place, with everything that has been publicized so far, the gravity of the allegations, and the distraction to the team and the organization this fiasco has caused, I'd probably kill that kids whole family. :lol:
Kelly the Dog Posted July 14, 2015 Posted July 14, 2015 This is a sticky situation for sure, but if I were in Kromer's place, with everything that has been publicized so far, the gravity of the allegations, and the distraction to the team and the organization this fiasco has caused, I'd probably kill that kids whole family. "I warned them!!!"
NoSaint Posted July 14, 2015 Posted July 14, 2015 (edited) This is a sticky situation for sure, but if I were in Kromer's place, with everything that has been publicized so far, the gravity of the allegations, and the distraction to the team and the organization this fiasco has caused, I'd probably kill that kids whole family. professionally, im more worried about his empty threats and lack of follow through. if he wants to punch richie in the head for stealing his spot at lunch, im actually pro-kromer there but if he cant keep a commitment.... Edited July 14, 2015 by NoSaint
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