WhitewalkerInPhilly Posted July 13, 2015 Posted July 13, 2015 He said, she said. Prosecutors only bring slam dunks to trial and the word of three minors doesn't carry much water. Especially if Kromer brings his own, contradictory story line into the mix... http://www.pjstar.com/article/20150620/NEWS/150629947 I agree. Kromer probably wants this over with as quickly and quietly as possible for his career's sake. Few prosecutors are going to take a hard line for a misdemeanor offense when the defense is "It was dark, and there were people on my property and they were stealing/defacing my furniture. They'd done it before. So I lost my temper and hit one. What was I supposed to do, let them rob me while I wait for the cops to roll up an hour later so they can file a report under "Let's go and work on important cases"?" I'm not saying that is the case, but I doubt you can get 12 jurors to completely disagree.
YoloinOhio Posted July 13, 2015 Author Posted July 13, 2015 Bobby Carpenter on our local radio show said he was staying 2 miles from where this happened last week. He said the way it works is you pay for a set of chairs for each week (?) and using other people's chairs is like stealing. Not that it justifies kromer punching the person but whatever. He also said he knows him well and when asked if he could see him doing something like this he said "yes" and laughed. Not that it means anything, just an anecdote.
Formerly Allan in MD Posted July 13, 2015 Posted July 13, 2015 I agree. Kromer probably wants this over with as quickly and quietly as possible for his career's sake. Few prosecutors are going to take a hard line for a misdemeanor offense when the defense is "It was dark, and there were people on my property and they were stealing/defacing my furniture. They'd done it before. So I lost my temper and hit one. What was I supposed to do, let them rob me while I wait for the cops to roll up an hour later so they can file a report under "Let's go and work on important cases"?" I'm not saying that is the case, but I doubt you can get 12 jurors to completely disagree. You're hired!
YoloinOhio Posted July 13, 2015 Author Posted July 13, 2015 Where's Willie "Mayberry" Meggs when you need him
Doc Posted July 13, 2015 Posted July 13, 2015 Are you kidding? Then you keep it off the record. These guys know how it works. He obviously wanted it out there that he was questioning Cutler's decision making so he could justify benching Cutler in favor of...Jimmy Clausen! You might be right. He will get a plea deal down from the misdemeanor battery. After getting dumped from that trainwreck of an offensive coaching staff in Chicago, Kromer got his second chance....from Rex. I assume he thought it would be off the record. But looking to put it out there to bench Cutler for Jimmy Clausen? Seriously? And the guy is not an OC. Although Cutler didn't do him any favors.
Kelly the Dog Posted July 13, 2015 Posted July 13, 2015 The poster said their account is "hearsay".. It's clearly not. And it's not about bringing cases to trial, it's about getting convictions--usually through plea deals. This will never go to court. Everyone knows it. The key here is Kromer's son. He saw it all. If these kids attacked his father, I doubt he would stick around to help them find their gear--unless he is ready to deny that. Why? Chances are high that both sides were very wrong, and Kromer's kid was trying to diffuse the part where they may go to the cops because his dad punched one and may have threatened him.
Dorkington Posted July 13, 2015 Posted July 13, 2015 In the 24 hours since this story broke I've come to the conclusion I don't really care whether this guy is coaching the Bills' OL or not -- but I keep coming back for the jokes. It's not like our blocking can get any worse, so no big deal, right? haha
Rob's House Posted July 13, 2015 Posted July 13, 2015 Sometimes reading these threads is like listening to my mom's bridge group.
Lurker Posted July 13, 2015 Posted July 13, 2015 The poster said their account is "hearsay".. It's clearly not. How so? How are the statements of three minors going to pass the "reasonable doubt" threshold to make this worth prosecuting? “The police are looking at cases based upon probable cause, which is a lesser standard than is used at trial. That standard is reasonable doubt and is much higher and one that has been used since the beginning of the criminal justice system,”
DC Tom Posted July 13, 2015 Posted July 13, 2015 How so? How are the statements of three minors going to pass the "reasonable doubt" threshold to make this worth prosecuting? The police are looking at cases based upon probable cause, which is a lesser standard than is used at trial. That standard is reasonable doubt and is much higher and one that has been used since the beginning of the criminal justice system, That's not the definition of hearsay. Also...the statements of the minors - and everyone else - were redacted from the police report. We have one statement, from the arresting officer.
Mr. WEO Posted July 13, 2015 Posted July 13, 2015 I assume he thought it would be off the record. But looking to put it out there to bench Cutler for Jimmy Clausen? Seriously? And the guy is not an OC. Although Cutler didn't do him any favors. There is no way he didn't know it would be printed. They were going to bench Cutler for Clausen. There is no other reason to undercut Cutler to the press. No, he's no OC, for sure. And is there evidence that he's a top O-line coach? Why? Chances are high that both sides were very wrong, and Kromer's kid was trying to diffuse the part where they may go to the cops because his dad punched one and may have threatened him. "Did your father push this kid down and punch him in the face and then threaten to kill his family if he went to the cops?" If he says yes, yes and yes, it's case closed, I would think. The proscecutor (no grand jury here) doesn't care if these kids were scarfing Kromer's rented beach chairs. No one has leaked any arguement of self defense, so this is simple battery. That's not the definition of hearsay. Also...the statements of the minors - and everyone else - were redacted from the police report. We have one statement, from the arresting officer. As Tom says, their account cannot be considered hearsay--they were there to give frist hand accounts.
NoSaint Posted July 13, 2015 Posted July 13, 2015 There is no way he didn't know it would be printed. They were going to bench Cutler for Clausen. There is no other reason to undercut Cutler to the press. No, he's no OC, for sure. And is there evidence that he's a top O-line coach? guys like bushrod, evans, carl nicks, goodwin, strief, etc... reflect pretty well on the guy.
Lurker Posted July 13, 2015 Posted July 13, 2015 As Tom says, their account cannot be considered hearsay--they were there to give frist hand accounts. OK. Semantics (and technical letter of the law definitions) aside, how much weight do statements from three minors (who may or may not be credible witnesses) have in meeting a "burden of proof" prosecutorial threshold?
Mr. WEO Posted July 13, 2015 Posted July 13, 2015 guys like bushrod, evans, carl nicks, goodwin, strief, etc... reflect pretty well on the guy. They have been as good since he left. Also, the Bills are the 4th team he has been O-line coach for.
Jon in Pasadena Posted July 13, 2015 Posted July 13, 2015 Sometimes reading these threads is like listening to my mom's bridge group. They must have a very strange bidding convention.
NoSaint Posted July 13, 2015 Posted July 13, 2015 (edited) They have been as good since he left. Also, the Bills are the 4th team he has been O-line coach for. they have all been mid to late round draft picks when he started. and evans has struggled, nicks was a massive flop in tampa and is out of the league, goodwin didnt play well particularly well when he went to SF, bushrod followed him to chicago..... so.... i know you can do better than that. also the bills are only the second team he has held that title, though he was OC in chicago and asst offensive line in oakland and tampa i believe. Edited July 13, 2015 by NoSaint
Mr. WEO Posted July 13, 2015 Posted July 13, 2015 OK. Semantics (and technical letter of the law definitions) aside, how much weight do statements from three minors (who may or may not be credible witnesses) have in meeting a "burden of proof" prosecutorial threshold? One of the kids has a shiner. Unless Kromer can credibly say he was defending himself (or unless someone can successfully cripple the credibility of 3 witnesses and conclude the kid was never hit by Kroemr), the burden of proof (Any actual and intentional touching or striking of another person against that person's will (non-consensual), or. The intentional causing of bodily harm to another person) for the charge has been met.
Jamie Nails Posted July 13, 2015 Posted July 13, 2015 Just F5ing waiting for the thread title to read ; fired
Mr. WEO Posted July 13, 2015 Posted July 13, 2015 they have all been mid to late round draft picks when he started. and evans has struggled, nicks was a massive flop in tampa and is out of the league, goodwin didnt play well particularly well when he went to SF, bushrod followed him to chicago..... so.... i know you can do better than that. also the bills are only the second team he has held that title, though he was OC in chicago and asst offensive line in oakland and tampa i believe. His own wiki lists him as O-line coach for Raiders 2002-4. He was also hired as "offensive line coach and offensive coordinator" for the Bears when he got there in 2013, later handing over O-line duties to Pat Meyer.
thebandit27 Posted July 13, 2015 Posted July 13, 2015 His own wiki lists him as O-line coach for Raiders 2002-4. He was also hired as "offensive line coach and offensive coordinator" for the Bears when he got there in 2013, later handing over O-line duties to Pat Meyer. Didn't the raiders go to the Superbowl in 2002?
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