C.Biscuit97 Posted August 5, 2015 Posted August 5, 2015 Cassel had a great start last year (STL), a disastrous start (NE) and what looks like a half game. The year before he completed between 60-61%, averaged 200 yards a game and had an 11 to 9 TD to INT (similar to EJ in 2013). I'm not hoping for Cassel either but I don't have any doubts that if the season started now he would be the guy. There is still a month left for someone to overtake him but their play will have to improve if that is going to happen. The Bills believe (right or wrong) that if the QB makes good decisions and takes care of the ball they will win. That is why they chased McCown and then immediately traded for Cassel. They wanted a vet that has had some success to manage games if no one else emerged. As of today it is tough to say that anyone else has emerged (but there is time). I know how EJ is viewed within the building and if you guys think that he has an uphill battle winning over the media you should see the uphill battle internally. They love him as a person and his work ethic but there are serious concerns about the way that he sees the field. Again, he has a chance to win people over with his play and he may. If a young guy is to emerge it's more likely to be Taylor IMO. I'll leave the topic there because its exhausting and there is a month for it all to play out. I don't care at all who it is as long as they win. As always, I respect your opinion Kirby. This mindset in the building worries me however. Even if EJ can only see half of the field, he is putting up the same numbers, with less turnovers, than Cassel. Again, what is the upside? As much as EJ and Taylor have to prove, people forget about the coaches. Rex, who might be the best defensive coach in the NFL, has never had a good offense. I won't put that all on him but he deserves some of the blame. And Roman has never done it without Harbaugh, who maybe a douche, but might be the best QB coach in football. There is a lot riding on this competition. Personally, I go with the upside over the vet in decline if all things are equal. Long, long way to go though. Hopefully someone wins it and ends all the speculation.
Kirby Jackson Posted August 5, 2015 Posted August 5, 2015 As always, I respect your opinion Kirby. This mindset in the building worries me however. Even if EJ can only see half of the field, he is putting up the same numbers, with less turnovers, than Cassel. Again, what is the upside? As much as EJ and Taylor have to prove, people forget about the coaches. Rex, who might be the best defensive coach in the NFL, has never had a good offense. I won't put that all on him but he deserves some of the blame. And Roman has never done it without Harbaugh, who maybe a douche, but might be the best QB coach in football. There is a lot riding on this competition. Personally, I go with the upside over the vet in decline if all things are equal. Long, long way to go though. Hopefully someone wins it and ends all the speculation. It may happen too. It sounds like EJ was good in the night practice and Taylor has flashed throughout but lacks consistency. There is time and 4 preseason games that can turn things. They certainly aren't married to anyone yet. I just hope that whoever it is does okay. I think okay QB play gets this team to 10-11 wins. I honestly believe that QB aside this Bills team is as talented as just about any team in football (especially the AFC). It will hopefully be a really, really fun few years. We deserve it.
C.Biscuit97 Posted August 5, 2015 Posted August 5, 2015 It may happen too. It sounds like EJ was good in the night practice and Taylor has flashed throughout but lacks consistency. There is time and 4 preseason games that can turn things. They certainly aren't married to anyone yet. I just hope that whoever it is does okay. I think okay QB play gets this team to 10-11 wins. I honestly believe that QB aside this Bills team is as talented as just about any team in football (especially the AFC). It will hopefully be a really, really fun few years. We deserve it. Agreed. And if no one steps up, this is about as good of a situation as a rookie qb could ever step into next year.
Beerball Posted August 5, 2015 Posted August 5, 2015 Knowing what we know (or think we know) about Rex, does anyone believe this? I think what coach is looking for the most is a consistent guy, a flat line quarterback http://www.democratandchronicle.com/story/sports/football/nfl/bills/2015/08/04/buffalo-bills-quarterback-ej-manuel/31115993/?from=global&sessionKey=&autologin=
FireChan Posted August 5, 2015 Posted August 5, 2015 As always, I respect your opinion Kirby. This mindset in the building worries me however. Even if EJ can only see half of the field, he is putting up the same numbers, with less turnovers, than Cassel. Again, what is the upside? As much as EJ and Taylor have to prove, people forget about the coaches. Rex, who might be the best defensive coach in the NFL, has never had a good offense. I won't put that all on him but he deserves some of the blame. And Roman has never done it without Harbaugh, who maybe a douche, but might be the best QB coach in football. There is a lot riding on this competition. Personally, I go with the upside over the vet in decline if all things are equal. Long, long way to go though. Hopefully someone wins it and ends all the speculation. Who woulda thought Roman would start getting questioned once it started looking like a real possibility EJ didn't win the job? And so the wheel turns.
thewildrabbit Posted August 5, 2015 Posted August 5, 2015 but what does that have to do with the inability to squelch the bull rush? I don't think people are talking about help BUT his inability to anchor is a result of the repetitive leg injuries. Stunts yes. Run blocking... yes. But mano e mano? He has not measured up as an upper echelon center... Do you happen to recall why Dick Jauron drafted Eric Wood, and Andy Levitre? Well I do! It was because ole dickie stopped having nightmares about Brady to Randy Moss, and started having them about Kris Jenkins eating his QB's. In 2008 the Bills played the NY Jets at Buffalo, and Phil Simms was announcing. There was a play with both OG's, and the center tried unsuccessfully to block Kris Jenkins. Yeah, that's right as the TV world watched one Jets player was triple teamed by the Bills interior line, and Jenkins still got to the QB!! Jauron then realized he needed to replace the entire interior of the Bills line, and did so for 2009. Now sadly, that was the same year that the Bills decided to trade away all pro LT Jason Peters, and the reason the team had the extra picks. The FO in all its stupidity thought they could replace the most important position on the line in all pro Peters with a 7th rounder in Demetress Bell. Needless to say the Bills could have drafted Lber Clay Matthews instead of Aaron Maybin or Alex Mack instead of Wood, but that is another sad story entirely. P.S. With the interior line its not about one on one blocking when you are facing two of the best DT's in the league. Its about making sure that both players are adequately blocked, and knowing the line assignments. With two new players at OG in Incognito and rookie Miller I'd say off hand the problem is more with them understanding, and knowing their responsibilities every play. The center calls the line assignments, and needs to make certain he is snapping the ball accurately which can leave him vulnerable on the side he snaps with because he needs to get that arm up and into position very quickly. If a "good" center is getting overpowered its probably because one of the OG's are not very good at their job. JMO PPS Evan Mathis where are you?
Rubes Posted August 5, 2015 Posted August 5, 2015 Knowing what we know (or think we know) about Rex, does anyone believe this? http://www.democratandchronicle.com/story/sports/football/nfl/bills/2015/08/04/buffalo-bills-quarterback-ej-manuel/31115993/?from=global&sessionKey=&autologin= He needs a dead guy?
MDH Posted August 5, 2015 Posted August 5, 2015 Who woulda thought Roman would start getting questioned once it started looking like a real possibility EJ didn't win the job? And so the wheel turns. They are four practices in and - by most accounts - EJ has looked the best in 2 of them. It's no more likely that he doesn't win the job now than it was since they traded for Cassel and signed Tyrod. Not sure what you're even talking about. The moment there was an open competition there was a real possibility EJ didn't win the job.
thewildrabbit Posted August 5, 2015 Posted August 5, 2015 Since it's an off day, let us take time to smile at this: "Pats QB's struggling at training camp" http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-training-camps/0ap3000000506515/Patriots-QBs-struggling-at-training-camp?icampaign=nflcom-cs-homepage-videoswap_generic_nfl Finally, THIS is the year that Brady is done! Guys, the defense almost always starts out better in training camp and in the season because its so much easier to get up to full speed in learning the defensive play book then the offensive playbook. Then you need to consider the Bills O is facing the best defense in the league this year in practice. BTW, I wouldn't read to much into Brady struggling early... as in the first four games of the 2014 season. The Patriots lose to the Dolphins 20-33 in the opener at Miami, and then get clobbered by the Chiefs two weeks later in KC 41-13. Thus going 2-2. That Chiefs game had every Patriots fan crying in their beers that the dynasty was OVER! Then NE went on a 10-2 run with the Gronk getting better each week. Its only been four days of practice!! Can we give it a few weeks before mashing down on that QB panic button?
C.Biscuit97 Posted August 5, 2015 Posted August 5, 2015 Who woulda thought Roman would start getting questioned once it started looking like a real possibility EJ didn't win the job? And so the wheel turns. I've said this when he was hired. If he doesn't produce a quality offense, he will look like he was a puppet in SF, similar to Mularkey in NO. If he does, he will be a head coaching candidate like Pettine became. Not really that hard to understand. Hopefully, he will chose the guy who proves to be the best qb in camp and preseason games. Not the supposedly "safe" choice.
FireChan Posted August 5, 2015 Posted August 5, 2015 They are four practices in and - by most accounts - EJ has looked the best in 2 of them. It's no more likely that he doesn't win the job now than it was since they traded for Cassel and signed Tyrod. Not sure what you're even talking about. The moment there was an open competition there was a real possibility EJ didn't win the job. The context of the conversation was Kirby's assertion that if the season started tomorrow, Cassel would probably be the starter.
FluffHead Posted August 5, 2015 Posted August 5, 2015 Its only been four days of practice!! Can we give it a few weeks before mashing down on that QB panic button? No. You can't blame us because we just FeartheLosing
C.Biscuit97 Posted August 5, 2015 Posted August 5, 2015 Guys, the defense almost always starts out better in training camp and in the season because its so much easier to get up to full speed in learning the defensive play book then the offensive playbook. Then you need to consider the Bills O is facing the best defense in the league this year in practice. BTW, I wouldn't read to much into Brady struggling early... as in the first four games of the 2014 season. The Patriots lose to the Dolphins 20-33 in the opener at Miami, and then get clobbered by the Chiefs two weeks later in KC 41-13. Thus going 2-2. That Chiefs game had every Patriots fan crying in their beers that the dynasty was OVER! Then NE went on a 10-2 run with the Gronk getting better each week. Its only been four days of practice!! Can we give it a few weeks before mashing down on that QB panic button? As embarrassing as it was, some idiots were saying it was time to bench Brady. Same with Tannehill after the Bills game. Knee jerk society. Then when you get to use hindsight, you become a genius.
FireChan Posted August 5, 2015 Posted August 5, 2015 I've said this when he was hired. If he doesn't produce a quality offense, he will look like he was a puppet in SF, similar to Mularkey in NO. If he does, he will be a head coaching candidate like Pettine became. Not really that hard to understand. Hopefully, he will chose the guy who proves to be the best qb in camp and preseason games. Not the supposedly "safe" choice. I believe you said, multiple times, something along the lines of "if Roman (a successful NFL OC) doesn't think EJ will be successful/be the starter, it'll be time to close the book. But I won't believe in what Jacksonville coaches think about him." I could find the posts if you'd like.
C.Biscuit97 Posted August 5, 2015 Posted August 5, 2015 I believe you said, multiple times, something along the lines of "if Roman (a successful NFL OC) doesn't think EJ will be successful/be the starter, it'll be time to close the book. But I won't believe in what Jacksonville coaches think about him." I could find the posts if you'd like. Of course. If EJ doesn't start, he isn't coming back. Of course if Roman starts Cassel and our offense doesn't look better than last year's, there will be lots of questions.
boyst Posted August 5, 2015 Posted August 5, 2015 Can't hate on Joe for this one: Kelso said the same thing... who is it
boyst Posted August 5, 2015 Posted August 5, 2015 Remember when the Bills had a slew of injuries on defense and by week 4 had to sign a receiver they cut in camp to play safety? You're never deep enough. Who was that? I was at TC tonight. Some thoughts... EJ looked very good tonight. I'm not sure where he stands in the pecking order, but he is clearly the best "thrower" of the lot. He made several very good long throws tonight. That one that was dropped by Thigpen was a shame. Tyrod was okay. He made some good throws and some terrible throws. Perhaps Cassell and Simms were so bad it made him look decent by contrast. Cassell throws like a girl...I'm sorry. His deep throws are wobbly and float. No...just please no. Simms was bad. I have nothing to say about him because he was so forgettable. No quarterback...I repeat...no quarterback had much success against the first defense. They are just scary. In fact, during that Taylor to Watkins long TD that everyone is gushing about, Kyle Williams beat his guy immediately and would definitely have sacked him. Kyle literally stood there for 1.5 seconds before Tyrod threw the ball. Sammy did some things out there that made my jaw drop. This is the first time I have seen him live, and I was amazed at his talent. Clearly the most talented player on the football field. He had his way with Gilmore too. Ronald Darby was also very, very impressive. I don't think there was a single time where he was beat. I will say, however, that he might be a little too physical after 5 yards. He is going to have to clean up the bumping and hand fighting. Where is Charles Clay? He looks good in those Bills colors out there, but I'd like to see him make some plays. It was tough to judge the offensive line, although I will say that Wood seemed to be the weak link. A lot of pressure up the middle. Kujo got beat badly by Mario early in practice, but tightened his game up and looked good after that. I keyed in on Incognito a lot and he was just destroying people out there. He plays angry. Percy Harvin was invisible, Woods was all over the place making catches, and Thigpen (other than the drop) seemed to have a good night. Finally, Bryce Brown fumbled....yes. Otherwise, he ran the ball very effectively. I guess that just is who he is. Karlos Wiliams impressed me. He runs very decisively, hits the hole quick and hard, and seems very fast. It was tough to get autographs tonight because there were so many people. Thank you to Ty Powell and Tony Steward for signing my son's football. We were behind like 3 rows of people, and both took a lot of time to sign for just about everyone. Go Bills!!! Wood pissed me off last year. His tweet to Sullivan saying that he could include him on the tweet about wood playing lousy week 3 if he was brave got to me. Jackass move against a media guy. And the dude had been sucking, sully was right. Wood was definitely one of my concerns going into camp. He had a terrible year last year, but so did everyone on the OL. Rex doesn't seem to be concerned so I guess we'll see. Who is the backup C -- Urbik?a few ofmus said that last year. We got blasted, people laughed at anyone suggesting he was bad. He went from top 3 or 4 in afc to bottom 10-15. No movement,no vision, no agility. Sloppy. I screamed in the draft. I said draft the best OG or OC on board and we go OL. Move someone to OG, even if Wood. Just put the best 5 on the field and if a rookie OC is better then an OG, play him at OC and Wood at RG. It's interesting because nobody has gotten a free pass like Wood the last 2 years. Bandit and I talked about this last offseason and he defended his play in 2013. I always respect his opinion and thought maybe that I was missing something but he has since come around. The last 2 years Wood has been a bad player. He played next to bad guards but he was a part of the problem not a part of the solution. Hopefully the improved guard play can cover up some of Wood's shortcomings. It isn't easy to block Kyle & Dareus either. His bad 2 guards didn't mask his inability to read his coverages or call out assignments. I don't like Spiller all that much and he wouldn't run up field but I think wood was awful at calling coverages under Marrone and Jacket milling any chance Spiller had to break one without going outside. Just horrible communication. I'm hoping for the same. I also half-wonder if they'd explore replacing Wood if he struggles in the early part of the season. They've got options: Urbik can play center, Incognito has played center and could kick over there with Richardson or Urbik at guard. I'm not saying that I think it will happen, or that his struggles in TC are anything more than dealing with Dareus and Kyle. I am, however, thinking ahead to the fact that he has to face some seriously talented combinations of DLmen in the AFC East (Suh/Phillips in Miami, Wilkerson/Harrison/Richardson/Williams in NJ, Brown/Sheard in NE), plus Peko/Atkins vs Cincinnati. While I don't think it's time to push the panic button (nor do I think anyone here is doing that)...it does bare watching. EDIT: I also think that an argument could be made for signing Evan Mathis to give them more flexibility, but it sounds like his price tag is way beyond what we'd be willing to pay. all for it, wrt to getting a good signal caller. I think that's a huge issue. He can't call plays and he can't play as good as he did with Chan because all he would do is run over what's in front of him. Now he is thinking too damn much
26CornerBlitz Posted August 5, 2015 Author Posted August 5, 2015 (edited) Day 6 discussion of TC @ SJF starts here! @DuffyOnWCMF QB Matt Cassel and GM Doug Whaley in the @wcmfbreakroom tomorrow between 6-10am @TheBillsMafia @BuffaloBillsPR #ROC #BILLS @965WCMF @hsimon62 Back at #BillsCamp with @JeremyWGR tomorrow. We will have Matt Cassel at 7:10 and Doug Whaley at 9:00. Hope you can join us on @WGR550 Edited August 5, 2015 by 26CornerBlitz
WhitewalkerInPhilly Posted August 5, 2015 Posted August 5, 2015 Agreed. And if no one steps up, this is about as good of a situation as a rookie qb could ever step into next year. Unfortunately, I have to agree and it's a concern in the back of my mind. That said, I have been thinking about FA aquisitions that might be possible at the end of the season. I might do a thread on it if there is interest. Basically, Foles and Bradford are in contract years with their respective teams and both have some question marks as to their play and injury history. RGIII may have been retained, but I'm pretty sure that the 5th year option isn't guaranteed and would give the 'Skins a lot of cap space to cut next year. If he's not Gruden's guy are they really going to keep him around? Cutler's salary is a millstone to a team who very well might be last in the division this year and the Bears might want to move on. Kaep is in a team friendly contract and with the wheels falling off everywhere else, maybe they decide to start over. He needs a dead guy? I think a dead guy might but up better numbers than Geno Smith.
jimmy10 Posted August 5, 2015 Posted August 5, 2015 Headed to camp today for the first time this summer without my camera or my kid. Looking forward to sitting and actually paying attention. Will report back what I can, but there are far better X's and O's guys on here more qualified to break things down.
Recommended Posts