Mark80 Posted July 8, 2015 Posted July 8, 2015 (edited) I don't by the "era" argument. In Serena's era I would bet she could beat some decent ranked men, plus she had to play against the likes of Venus. I bet in the 60s no woman could win a single game against decent ranked men. Now, Martina v. Serena or Venus in their prime would be a match for the ages. Wow, that's a pretty lofty statement. If by "decent" you mean professionals in general, well, yeah, maybe she could consistently beat some of them men ranked in the 100s, occasionally beat a guy ranked 50-100 and rarely beat a guy 20-50. But no way in hell she is beating a top 20 male player. It's a completely different level of play. There is a reason they are separated. Heck, she's completely exhausted after a 3 set match, the men still have 2 more to go potentially. People thought for a minute that Michell Wie could hang with the men in golf too, or that Danica was going to be a successful nascar driver...we all know how those have played out. Edited July 8, 2015 by Mark80
The Poojer Posted July 9, 2015 Posted July 9, 2015 Do you really need to ask? Hell yes, anytime, anywhere Would ya'? You are correct, that was a completely uneducated statement by me, and based on that I did mean maybe 30-50 ranked mens players. After Nadal, Murray and Djokovic, I probably couldn't name another male tennis player...i may be able to name 3 women and 2 are williams'. that said, I am sticking with my uneducated opinion that Serena could beat a 30-50 ranked mens player. I am probably wrong, but I would love to see it happen Wow, that's a pretty lofty statement. If by "decent" you mean professionals in general, well, yeah, maybe she could consistently beat some of them men ranked in the 100s, occasionally beat a guy ranked 50-100 and rarely beat a guy 20-50. But no way in hell she is beating a top 20 male player. It's a completely different level of play. There is a reason they are separated. Heck, she's completely exhausted after a 3 set match, the men still have 2 more to go potentially. People thought for a minute that Michell Wie could hang with the men in golf too, or that Danica was going to be a successful nascar driver...we all know how those have played out.
Miyagi-Do Karate Posted July 9, 2015 Posted July 9, 2015 How do you guys know so much about women's tennis?! I am actually a tennis player and follow the game somewhat-- but I couldn't debate the merits of court vs Serena. Very impressive stuff. I wil say that when Stefi played, I thought she was totally dominant and the best woman I had seen. I think she dominated her era just as much as Serena has hers.
Mark80 Posted July 9, 2015 Posted July 9, 2015 (edited) How do you guys know so much about women's tennis?! I am actually a tennis player and follow the game somewhat-- but I couldn't debate the merits of court vs Serena. Very impressive stuff. I wil say that when Stefi played, I thought she was totally dominant and the best woman I had seen. I think she dominated her era just as much as Serena has hers. It's not really a debate of who's better of the two, Serena is clearly the best. It's a debate on who was the most dominate and in that context you have to take into account their competition as they faced it in their times and Court's record is just more impressive to me than Serena's. However, if she played from the 80's on she probably wouldn't have won a single one! But with that being said, I still firmly believe that Babe Ruth is the all time most dominant athlete. Would hit more HRs than entire teams, was one of the best pitchers in the league before he turned into an outfielder, and heck, he even stole home 10 times in his career. Completely revolutionized the game like no other athlete in history, all while boozing and partying more than you or I could ever dream and without ever working out. Now that's impressive! Edited July 9, 2015 by Mark80
4merper4mer Posted July 9, 2015 Posted July 9, 2015 I don't follow golf so cannot really say which sport is more difficult for a Grand Slam. But I wanted to comment on the domination of the sport - the last 10+ years have been great for the men's side with the Big-4 Federer, Nadal, Djokovic and Murray giving us some thrilling competition and high levels of tennis. Unfortunately, the women's side has been bereft of similar competition. There are a lot of above average playes but few who put up consistent resistance to Serena. I am a massive fan of Serena for her tenacity, competitiveness and skill. Few players on the women's side (after Steffi Graf) have been able to play at that astronomical level for so many years. I will lament her eventual retirement even though she is looking great even at 33. Who knows when we will see another US champion let alone one to compete for Serena's legacy. I do hope she bests Graf's 22 and Margaret Court's 24 grad slam titles so that there is no doubt about who the G.O.A.T in women's tennis is. I think if Lee kept playing she could have been true competition for Serena. She had to move on though....from both tennis and from me.....I understand but it doesn't make my heart ache any less. As for the original question I agree with most. I think either is a great achievement but that a golf grand slam would be simply amazing....I doubt it will happen but why not root for the kid? I hope they both do it.
bbb Posted July 9, 2015 Posted July 9, 2015 Do you really need to ask? Hell yes, anytime, anywhere You are correct, that was a completely uneducated statement by me, and based on that I did mean maybe 30-50 ranked mens players. After Nadal, Murray and Djokovic, I probably couldn't name another male tennis player...i may be able to name 3 women and 2 are williams'. that said, I am sticking with my uneducated opinion that Serena could beat a 30-50 ranked mens player. I am probably wrong, but I would love to see it happen You're right - you're wrong How do you guys know so much about women's tennis?! I am actually a tennis player and follow the game somewhat-- but I couldn't debate the merits of court vs Serena. Very impressive stuff. I wil say that when Stefi played, I thought she was totally dominant and the best woman I had seen. I think she dominated her era just as much as Serena has hers. The problem is she wouldn't have dominated the era if that !@#$ing German whackjob didn't stab Monica Seles. Monica was better and ranked #1 when she got stabbed. She had won 9 grand slams in the previous 3 years and Steffi only 3.
truth on hold Posted July 9, 2015 Posted July 9, 2015 Do you really need to ask? Hell yes, anytime, anywhere cuz I wouldnt, with her muscularity and temper Id be concerned one wrong move and she'd beat the crap out of me
Miyagi-Do Karate Posted July 9, 2015 Posted July 9, 2015 You're right - you're wrong The problem is she wouldn't have dominated the era if that !@#$ing German whackjob didn't stab Monica Seles. Monica was better and ranked #1 when she got stabbed. She had won 9 grand slams in the previous 3 years and Steffi only 3. It's tough to say. Head to head, Stefi pretty much owned her. But not sure if that would have been different if not for the stabbing.
Fan in Chicago Posted July 9, 2015 Posted July 9, 2015 I don't by the "era" argument. True. Comparing athletes across different eras is tough. There are so many other factors that cannot be eliminated or normalized, such as competition, modern medicine etc that the argument is moot. I would however say that winning the most number of Grand Slams would be a stat to use while making a claim for GOAT status. Would ya'? Probably not. I would be too intimidated and I suspect she will always want to be in control. You are correct, that was a completely uneducated statement by me, and based on that I did mean maybe 30-50 ranked mens players. After Nadal, Murray and Djokovic, I probably couldn't name another male tennis player...i may be able to name 3 women and 2 are williams'. that said, I am sticking with my uneducated opinion that Serena could beat a 30-50 ranked mens player. I am probably wrong, but I would love to see it happen I suspect that not mentioning Federer was just an over-sight on your part
The Poojer Posted July 9, 2015 Posted July 9, 2015 'twas I suspect that not mentioning Federer was just an over-sight on your part
Fan in Chicago Posted July 9, 2015 Posted July 9, 2015 How do you guys know so much about women's tennis?! I am actually a tennis player and follow the game somewhat-- but I couldn't debate the merits of court vs Serena. Very impressive stuff. I wil say that when Stefi played, I thought she was totally dominant and the best woman I had seen. I think she dominated her era just as much as Serena has hers. I used to play tennis and follow it quite a bit.
eball Posted July 9, 2015 Posted July 9, 2015 I know they like to brush over it since it wasn't one calendar year, but Tiger winning 4 consecutively back in 2000-2001 absolutely counts in my book. That was one of the most dominant stretches in all of sports history. The Tiger Slam. I think historians recognize it for what it was -- remarkable. At one point Tiger had all four reigning championship trophies sitting on his mantel at once. You are correct, that was a completely uneducated statement by me, and based on that I did mean maybe 30-50 ranked mens players. After Nadal, Murray and Djokovic, I probably couldn't name another male tennis player...i may be able to name 3 women and 2 are williams'. that said, I am sticking with my uneducated opinion that Serena could beat a 30-50 ranked mens player. I am probably wrong, but I would love to see it happen You're wrong.
The Poojer Posted July 9, 2015 Posted July 9, 2015 wouldn't be the first time, after all, I was married for 17 years The Tiger Slam. I think historians recognize it for what it was -- remarkable. At one point Tiger had all four reigning championship trophies sitting on his mantel at once. You're wrong.
KD in CA Posted July 9, 2015 Posted July 9, 2015 Granted this is from a while back when they were younger (but already stars), but this #200 guy in the world wiped both sisters off the court. I think it's pretty foolish to think women and men are anywhere near competitive in tennis. I'm sure it would be a similar case in almost any other sport. http://observer.theguardian.com/osm/story/0,,543962,00.html
Mark80 Posted July 9, 2015 Posted July 9, 2015 (edited) Granted this is from a while back when they were younger (but already stars), but this #200 guy in the world wiped both sisters off the court. I think it's pretty foolish to think women and men are anywhere near competitive in tennis. I'm sure it would be a similar case in almost any other sport. http://observer.theguardian.com/osm/story/0,,543962,00.html Interesting. Serena was still only 17 at the time and undoubtedly not in her prime quite yet and Venus was only 18. Neither had won a major yet. But I found it pretty interesting how he was talking about how they just weren't used to the amount of spin that was on the ball and how much ground he could cover. I'm sticking with my original thought on this. No way Serena ever beats a top 20 guy, rarely could beat a 20-50 guy (which may be impossible after reading that), occasionally could be a 50-100 (maybe rarely now), and could beat guys ranked over 100 consistently (maybe occasionally now). Venus, however, was never quite as impressive as Serena. I don't think she could beat any ranked male except for on the very rare occasion. On a side note, watching the Semi's today I just find it unbearable to watch matches when one of the players is screaming on every single shot. Even someone as hot as Maria. It's just so annoying. I liken it to all the timeouts / fouls / commercials at the end of basketball games. Something that annoys me so much that it really affects the amount of the sport that I will watch. Edited July 9, 2015 by Mark80
KD in CA Posted July 9, 2015 Posted July 9, 2015 On a side note, watching the Semi's today I just find it unbearable to watch matches when one of the players is screaming on every single shot. Even someone as hot as Maria. It's just so annoying. I liken it to all the timeouts / fouls / commercials at the end of basketball games. Something that annoys me so much that it really affects the amount of the sport that I will watch. I used to follow tennis closely but haven't in years so I can't remember if they actually had a rule that banned this in the past or if players were just more gentlemanly/lady like back then. It's hugely annoying.
26CornerBlitz Posted July 9, 2015 Author Posted July 9, 2015 Interesting. Serena was still only 17 at the time and undoubtedly not in her prime quite yet and Venus was only 18. Neither had won a major yet. But I found it pretty interesting how he was talking about how they just weren't used to the amount of spin that was on the ball and how much ground he could cover. I'm sticking with my original thought on this. No way Serena ever beats a top 20 guy, rarely could beat a 20-50 guy (which may be impossible after reading that), occasionally could be a 50-100 (maybe rarely now), and could beat guys ranked over 100 consistently (maybe occasionally now). Venus, however, was never quite as impressive as Serena. I don't think she could beat any ranked male except for on the very rare occasion. On a side note, watching the Semi's today I just find it unbearable to watch matches when one of the players is screaming on every single shot. Even someone as hot as Maria. It's just so annoying. I liken it to all the timeouts / fouls / commercials at the end of basketball games. Something that annoys me so much that it really affects the amount of the sport that I will watch. I find this highly annoying as well. Whenever Sharopova and Azarenka are playing each other, I simply cannot watch without the sound being muted.
26CornerBlitz Posted July 9, 2015 Author Posted July 9, 2015 Don't ask Azarenka about tennis players making noise: http://espn.go.com/video/clip?id=espn:13216578
bbb Posted July 10, 2015 Posted July 10, 2015 It's tough to say. Head to head, Stefi pretty much owned her. But not sure if that would have been different if not for the stabbing. She really didn't. Looking at the records, Monica started winning Grand Slams at age 16 in 1990. Between then and the stabbing, she beat Steffi in 3 out of 4 Grand Slam finals. She had her number and that !@#$ German guy knew it. (At the time, I liked Steffi better, but like most everybody, I started liking Monica after the stabbing) She's engaged to Golisano, BTW!
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