machine gun kelly Posted July 3, 2015 Posted July 3, 2015 Rodgers Rodgers Rodgers Rodgers Rodgers so to be clear, Rodgers. Best QB in football. If I couldn't have him, then Luck. How lucky are Indy fans. They get an incredible QB for probably 30 years between Manning and Luck.
GunnerBill Posted July 3, 2015 Posted July 3, 2015 I promise you 100 out of 100 coaches would take Wilsons stat line of highly efficient and effective football over a guy who has more yards but turns the ball over. And I promise you 100 coaches would not pick Quarterbacks based on stat lines out of context. Russell Wilson is a very good Quarterback, but to try and compare what he has done to what Luck has done is comparing apples and oranges. I don't think there is a single starter on the Colts defense that makes the starting line up in Seattle. Does Luck turn it over more? Yep... because he has to take more chances. In the one play-off game where Wilson found himself in a major hole and had to take a lot of chances he threw 4 picks.
BillsFan-4-Ever Posted July 3, 2015 Posted July 3, 2015 (edited) i also enjoyed that he keeps making the 7 win season argument as if wilson was the only addition, but ignores how bad the colts were the year before luck. but in arguing 2 vs 3 in this list, im not going to hash it out too much. how bad the colts were the year before luck. 2011 2-14 with Curtis Painter, Dan Orlovsky, and broken jawed Kerry Collins. *** Do you recall the infamous chant - SUCK FOR LUCK? *** conspiracy theorist say it was preplanned. Now good sir, please tell us how well the Colts were the year before that? I am pretty sure they were a QB centric playoff team and finished 10-6, 14-2 12-4 etc Perennial winners against the powerhouse teams of Jacksonville, Tennessee, Houston!!!! I wish the Bills could play 2x against Jacksonville and Tennessee every season!!! Edited July 3, 2015 by BillsFan-4-Ever
metzelaars_lives Posted July 3, 2015 Posted July 3, 2015 (edited) how bad the colts were the year before luck. 2011 2-14 with Curtis Painter, Dan Orlovsky, and broken jawed Kerry Collins. *** Do you recall the infamous chant - SUCK FOR LUCK? *** conspiracy theorist say it was preplanned. Now good sir, please tell us how well the Colts were the year before that? I am pretty sure they were a QB centric playoff team and finished 10-6, 14-2 12-4 etc Perennial winners against the powerhouse teams of Jacksonville, Tennessee, Houston!!!! I wish the Bills could play 2x against Jacksonville and Tennessee every season!!! Kerry Collins took the Giants to a Super Bowl, the 2nd year Carolina Panthers to the NFC Championship game and a Tennessee team to 13-3, so you probably would've had him ahead of Andrew Luck too. And as far as playing in a division that is not very good at the moment, that has nothing to do with how good Andrew Luck is. If all of a sudden, Aaron Rodgers played in a bad division (which he doesn't play in a great one at the moment either) that wouldn't make him a lesser QB. Much the same way, now that Josh McCown is playing in a very tough division, if he puts up poor numbers this year, I'm not going to hint that he's actually good because he plays in a good division. Hell, Tom Brady has played in a s**t division his entire career. How I wish the Bills could play against the Jets, the Dolphins and the Bi- wait a second... You gotta watch the guy play man. And as far as how good the Colts were prior to the Suck for Luck year, yes, read my post on page 8- when a team has an elite QB like Peyton Manning or Andrew Luck (who is about to be ranked in the top 10 of all the football players at all positions in the NFL but still not on your top 5 list of QB's to build a team around) they are going to 10-6 regardless of the talent around them (please do not point out one of the few exceptions, it's a general rule). That is, I would think, a plus for Andrew Luck, that he was able to take a team that was that bad- even in this horrendous division you speak of- and immediately turn them into a perennial playoff team. And also, Houston has been really good for most of the last decade. They were even 9-7 last year in their first real down season since they got Matt Schaub. Tennessee hasn't always sucked either. But yes, that division will probably be pretty bad this year, Andrew Luck will throw for like 50 TD's and you will discredit it because he plays against those teams for six games. Edited July 3, 2015 by metzelaars_lives
GunnerBill Posted July 3, 2015 Posted July 3, 2015 (edited) And also, Houston has been really good for most of the last decade. They were even 9-7 last year in their first real down season since they got Matt Schaub. Tennessee hasn't always sucked either. But yes, that division will probably be pretty bad this year, Andrew Luck will throw for like 50 TD's and you will discredit it because he plays against those teams for six games. Houston's first down year was the 2-14 the year before surely? Edited July 3, 2015 by GunnerBill
metzelaars_lives Posted July 3, 2015 Posted July 3, 2015 (edited) Houston's first down year was the 2-14 the year before surely? Naturally. Just looked it up- Houston really only had 2 or 3 good seasons under Schaub. Doesn't change my point one bit. But yes, I was wrong. Doesn't happen often. Cherish it. Edited July 3, 2015 by metzelaars_lives
Alphadawg7 Posted July 3, 2015 Author Posted July 3, 2015 In the 2014 NFC Championship his passer rating was less than 10 in the 4th quarter, he salvaged a 44.3 rating by the end of OT. He had 1 TD and 4 INT's in that game. His worst certainly is not 90.3 He's to a degree cherry picking by intentionally burying that game. There's no doubt in my mind that's why he's using the compiled stay Geezus...you guys specifically are now cherry picking a single game and somehow trying to turn that into me cherry picking? Last I checked its called a postSEASON not a postGAME. And you just furthered my point...even WITH that game his WORST post season rating was that year and it was still over 90...more than 15 points better than ANY post season Luck has ever had. And Luck was garbage against the Pats too. Again, its a POST SEASON not about one game...and Wilson won that game and did it PASSING.
metzelaars_lives Posted July 3, 2015 Posted July 3, 2015 Andrew Luck and Russell Wilson are both awesome. End thread.
BillsFan-4-Ever Posted July 3, 2015 Posted July 3, 2015 (edited) Kerry Collins took the Giants to a Super Bowl, the 2nd year Carolina Panthers to the NFC Championship game and a Tennessee team to 13-3, blah blah Luck blah blah What the hell s your problem? Seriously dude LET IT GO. back to the topic you replied to - FACT - Collins was at THE end of his career in 2011. see link below With Tennessee in 2008 yes, his record was 12-3 yet the seasons (plural) before and after he was not the full time starter and he was hardly on the field and he had a piss poor record of 3-17! So this leaves me to wonder why Tenny didn't play him after a such good 12-3 season on 2008? Care to speculate? rationally w/o mentioning Luck or any snide EJ comments http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/C/CollKe00.htm Edited July 3, 2015 by BillsFan-4-Ever
KRT88 Posted July 4, 2015 Posted July 4, 2015 1. Andrew Luck - age plays a factor 2. Aaron Rogers - if he was younger, I'd have him #1 3. Ben Roethlisberger 4. Matt Ryan 5. Russell Wilson If I could ignore age, obviously Manning, Brady and Brees would be listed.
Billsrhody Posted July 4, 2015 Posted July 4, 2015 I'm surprised more people don't have cam newton on their list. He's 26 and has been very good despite a very average supporting cast. He's got all the tools and is only going to get better. If I'm starting a franchise today it's: Luck Rodgers Wilson Newton Ryan
metzelaars_lives Posted July 4, 2015 Posted July 4, 2015 What the hell s your problem? Seriously dude LET IT GO. back to the topic you replied to - FACT - Collins was at THE end of his career in 2011. see link below With Tennessee in 2008 yes, his record was 12-3 yet the seasons (plural) before and after he was not the full time starter and he was hardly on the field and he had a piss poor record of 3-17! So this leaves me to wonder why Tenny didn't play him after a such good 12-3 season on 2008? Care to speculate? rationally w/o mentioning Luck or any snide EJ comments http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/C/CollKe00.htm I honestly don't even know what were arguing about anymore. Happy 4th!
BillsFan-4-Ever Posted July 5, 2015 Posted July 5, 2015 I honestly don't even know what were arguing about anymore. Happy 4th! that happens when you keep changing what you "argue" about. or cherry pick stats Do I really need to explain it? or are you playing dumb? I said - Stop getting hung up / upset on my keeping Luck out of the top 5. I said - In 2011 INDY SUCKED because they had no good QB - FACT Collins was at an end of his career your argument - Collins was 12-3 in 2008. YET you ignored the 4 multiple crap seasons in 2006, 2007, 2009.2010 You implied Collins was very good by posting his better career stats in response to THE specific year I spoke to, which was THE last of his career. Answer the question Why Tenny didn't play Collins after a such a very good 12-3 season on 2008?
metzelaars_lives Posted July 5, 2015 Posted July 5, 2015 that happens when you keep changing what you "argue" about. or cherry pick stats Do I really need to explain it? or are you playing dumb? I said - Stop getting hung up / upset on my keeping Luck out of the top 5. I said - In 2011 INDY SUCKED because they had no good QB - FACT Collins was at an end of his career your argument - Collins was 12-3 in 2008. YET you ignored the 4 multiple crap seasons in 2006, 2007, 2009.2010 You implied Collins was very good by posting his better career stats in response to THE specific year I spoke to, which was THE last of his career. Answer the question Why Tenny didn't play Collins after a such a very good 12-3 season on 2008? I was poking fun at you by saying that Collins wasn't that bad in his prime so you probably would've taken him over Luck too. That's all. It was a joke. Yes of course by 2011, he was washed up. But with no QB, they completely sucked. The Bills got very poor QB play last year and went 9-7. So the team Luck inherited was not a good football team whatsoever. And yes, they were successful prior to 2011 under Manning but that is because any team quarterbacked by Manning or Brady or Rodgers or Luck is pretty much going to be 10-6 regardless of the talent around them. That's why he's already such an elite QB. Do you think T.Y. Hilton would've been ranked in the top 40 players in the NFL if he was on the Bills the last few years?
GunnerBill Posted July 5, 2015 Posted July 5, 2015 I think it is pretty well established that Polian's last 5 or 6 drafts in Indi stunk and as a result it was a talent deficient team relying on two ageing pass rushers in Mathis and Freeney, an ageing receiver in Reggie Wayne and an elite Quarterback. I actually predicted before that 2011 season that if Manning's neck really was going to keep him out the whole year the Colts would have the first pick in the draft. It should not have been a surprise to people.
BillsFan-4-Ever Posted July 6, 2015 Posted July 6, 2015 (edited) I was poking fun at you by saying that Collins wasn't that bad in his prime so you probably would've taken him over Luck too. That's all. It was a joke. Yes of course by 2011, he was washed up. But with no QB, they completely sucked. The Bills got very poor QB play last year and went 9-7. So the team Luck inherited was not a good football team whatsoever. And yes, they were successful prior to 2011 under Manning but that is because any team quarterbacked by Manning or Brady or Rodgers or Luck is pretty much going to be 10-6 regardless of the talent around them. That's why he's already such an elite QB. Do you think T.Y. Hilton would've been ranked in the top 40 players in the NFL if he was on the Bills the last few years? so you were prodding for a response for no other reason than to what?..... troll for a response? but since you want a reply I will also jokingly add ----- Tim Tebow - he just wins Mark Sanchez - took the NYETS to the AFCCG twice no? You see, part of the problem is I can also bust your balls aka "poke fun" but you take it to heart and then throw insults. Edited July 6, 2015 by BillsFan-4-Ever
metzelaars_lives Posted July 6, 2015 Posted July 6, 2015 so you were prodding for a response for no other reason than to what?..... troll for a response? but since you want a reply I will also jokingly add ----- Tim Tebow - he just wins Mark Sanchez - took the NYETS to the AFCCG twice no? You see, part of the problem is I can also bust your balls aka "poke fun" but you take it to heart and then throw insults. Guess how many starts Tim Tebow has had. Exactly 14. How could we possibly know anything about how good he's going to be. Anyone who speculates that he might not become a franchise QB is just a troll and a "hater."
Kelly the Dog Posted July 6, 2015 Posted July 6, 2015 Guess how many starts Tim Tebow has had. Exactly 14. How could we possibly know anything about how good he's going to be. Anyone who speculates that he might not become a franchise QB is just a troll and a "hater." Those are not fair comparisons. 90-95% of football people think that Tebow has a single fatal flaw. It's enormous and no one in the history of the league has been able to overcome it. No one thinks EJ has a fatal flaw, they just don't think he has the total package needed to be successful over time as a starting NFL QB.
metzelaars_lives Posted July 6, 2015 Posted July 6, 2015 Those are not fair comparisons. 90-95% of football people think that Tebow has a single fatal flaw. It's enormous and no one in the history of the league has been able to overcome it. No one thinks EJ has a fatal flaw, they just don't think he has the total package needed to be successful over time as a starting NFL QB.Yes of course I think EJ Manuel has a better chance of being successful in this league than Tim Tebow. Obviously I was being sarcastic. But I do think it's OK to have opinions on a QB after 14 games, that was more my point.
BillsFan-4-Ever Posted July 6, 2015 Posted July 6, 2015 Guess how many starts Tim Tebow has had. Exactly 14. How could we possibly know anything about how good he's going to be. Anyone who speculates that he might not become a franchise QB is just a troll and a "hater." I was repeating what people (Tebow fans) say. He just wins. I'll still take EJ over Tebow at this juncture of their career. no comment on Shankchez?
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