metzelaars_lives Posted July 1, 2015 Posted July 1, 2015 The same way you and anyone who thinks Wilson is better than his stats show, I just know. But his stats are awesome. He does not put up the inflated, gaudy passing yards of say, a Matt Stafford, but his numbers are far more efficient.
mannc Posted July 1, 2015 Posted July 1, 2015 But his stats are awesome. He does not put up the inflated, gaudy passing yards of say, a Matt Stafford, but his numbers are far more efficient. Not to mention the underrated "statistic" known as Winning. Those numbers are pretty good for RW, too.
BillsFan-4-Ever Posted July 1, 2015 Posted July 1, 2015 (edited) I'm not trying to insult you, I promise. I'm only trying to have a pleasant exchange. I am not trolling you. I think it's a fair question to ask. If you believe a young QB who was a first round draft pick, has only played 14 games in the league, has the size, the arm strength, the mobility and the necessary leadership qualities, would have lead the Bills to a 12-4 record last year had he not been replaced by Orton, as you have stated on this very website, I think it's fair to ask if you'd choose him in your top 5 QB's to build a team around. If I knew only those things about a QB, I would certainly take him on my team. And if you'd consider Manuel for your top 5 and you do not have Luck in your top 5, I think it's also fair to ask who you would take, Manuel or Luck. So, who would you take? See? No insults, no trolling, I'm simply asking you a question based on information you have given me. you did a damn poor job then if you didn't mean to be insulting. so please stop any further inquiries are trolling - pushing for a reply when none is forthcoming --- so I have to ask  why must you demand further explanation from me on who my 5 were? why must you demand any commentary on EJ? why must you troll for a reason why I would feel EJ is a top 5 QB? Edited July 1, 2015 by BillsFan-4-Ever
atlbillsfan1975 Posted July 1, 2015 Posted July 1, 2015 (edited) But his stats are awesome. He does not put up the inflated, gaudy passing yards of say, a Matt Stafford, but his numbers are far more efficient. I am glad you think so. To me they scream ultimate game manager. His stats for the last 3 season show he is exactly what we want EJ to be. Wilson has never attempted 40 passes in a game. He has his most success when he attempts less than 30 passes. I do not buy him as a franchise passer or the guy i want leading my team at QB because i have to pay him $20mil+ a season that inhibits me from spending in other areas to compensate for his deficiencies. Â Seattle will be the next Baltimore. Sign your QB to a huge deal and suffer everywhere else on the field. Edited July 1, 2015 by atlbillsfan1975
C.Biscuit97 Posted July 1, 2015 Posted July 1, 2015 Not to mention the underrated "statistic" known as Winning. Those numbers are pretty good for RW, too. Omg!!! People need to stop this. Alex Smith has been a "winning" qb the last 3 years. Garbage Orton was a "winning" qb. Brees went 7-9. Â Honestly, are the Hawks any worse if they have Cam Newton (7-9)? Football is the ultimate team game. Wilson plays on the best all around team. Â He is a good qb and Seattle would be dumb to let him go. But man does he get overrated by some because of the great team he plays on.
metzelaars_lives Posted July 1, 2015 Posted July 1, 2015 (edited) you did a damn poor job then if you didn't mean to be insulting. so please stop any further inquiries are trolling - pushing for a reply when none is forthcoming --- so I have to ask  why must you demand further explanation from me on who my 5 were? why must you demand any commentary on EJ? why must you troll for a reason why I would feel EJ is a top 5 QB? 1. Please stop throwing the word "troll" around so haphazardly.  2. Why in the world won't you answer the question? If you asked me who I would take between Wayne Gretzky and Jerry Korab circa 1983, I would say Wayne Gretzky. That's it. No need to send these cryptic responses leading many to believe you would actually take Manuel. And so we're on the same page, the question is, who would you take as your QB to build a franchise around? EJ Manuel or Andrew Luck? You have said nothing up to this point to lead anyone to believe that your answer should be an obvious one. You have lambasted Luck for being a perennial playoff loser and you have stated that EJ Manuel would have led the Bills to a 12-4 record last year had they stuck with him. I'm inclined to think you'd take Manuel. That's fine if that's what you think- as you said, everyone is entitled to an opinion. So who do you got?? Omg!!! People need to stop this. Alex Smith has been a "winning" qb the last 3 years. Garbage Orton was a "winning" qb. Brees went 7-9.  Honestly, are the Hawks any worse if they have Cam Newton (7-9)? Football is the ultimate team game. Wilson plays on the best all around team.  He is a good qb and Seattle would be dumb to let him go. But man does he get overrated by some because of the great team he plays on. I am with you for the most part but winning is also not a completely arbitrary statistic either. Brees did go 7-9 last year. Tom Brady never has- on teams with far less talent than last year's Saints team. Edited July 1, 2015 by metzelaars_lives
C.Biscuit97 Posted July 1, 2015 Posted July 1, 2015 1. Please stop throwing the word "troll" around so haphazardly. Â 2. Why in the world won't you answer the question? If you asked me who I would take between Wayne Gretzky and Jerry Korab circa 1983, I would say Wayne Gretzky. That's it. No need to send these cryptic responses leading many to believe you would actually take Manuel. And so we're on the same page, the question is, who would you take as your QB to build a franchise around? EJ Manuel or Andrew Luck. You have said nothing up to this point to lead anyone to believe that your answer should be an obvious one. Â I am with you for the most part but winning is also not a completely arbitrary statistic either. Brees did go 7-9 last year. Tom Brady never has- on teams with far less talent than last year's Saints team. I can't look it up but has Brady ever been a team with a worse defense than NO had last year? Â How many good Qbs won't be really good with the #1 defense and a dominant rb?
LB3 Posted July 1, 2015 Posted July 1, 2015 How many good Qbs won't be really good with the #1 defense and a dominant rb? Don't forget to factor in the worst receiving corps in the league and a below average offensive line.
metzelaars_lives Posted July 1, 2015 Posted July 1, 2015 (edited) I can't look it up but has Brady ever been a team with a worse defense than NO had last year? Â How many good Qbs won't be really good with the #1 defense and a dominant rb? He has won Super Bowls with teams with less offensive weapons to work with, that's for sure. For the most part, I'm with you on the winning thing though. But the best QB's tend to be on good teams and make everyone around them better (who really believes that Jordy Nelson and Randall Cobb are two of the best WR's in all of football). Edited July 1, 2015 by metzelaars_lives
Protocal69 Posted July 1, 2015 Posted July 1, 2015 (edited) The Russell Wilson thread and some of the debates going on there got me thinking about this. If you were to start a team today and you are able to choose any QB as they sit today (in other words, saying an older guy when he was in his prime is not an answer), who would be your pick and who would be your top 5? Â 1. Rodgers - For me, the best in football today and has the potential to be in the best ever conversation when he's done. 2. Wilson - The best first 3 years arguably of any QB in history and already SB Champ. Avg wins for Sea 3 years prior to him = 6.33 and the avg wins 3 years with him 12. Seattle has literally doubled their win rate with him as QB. Has post season stats and record to match. 3. Luck - Already on the path as one of the next great prolific passers. Very poor playoff performance in each of his 3 years in the league. Never had a single post season with more TDs than INTs (9TDs total to 12 Ints total). 4. Big Ben - Proven winner, proven talent at QB who comes up Big living up to his name. His age of 33 keeps him from being higher on this list. 5. Ryan - Another great regular season guy but hasn't been able to get his team over the hump in the playoffs. Â Thats my list based on performance, age, upside, etc. Â Â Its funny to regarding Wilson that they say he is a product of the defense however in the year BEFORE Wilson got there Seattle had a top 10 defense and they was still 7-9 and somehow got into the playoffs and beat the Saints. In any other year they would have missed the playoffs. So in the 1st year Wilson came like you said they went from 7-9 with Marshawn Lynch to 11 Wins ( 4 win difference ) in his rookie season. Yes the defense helped but you cant take away what his play has done overall for the Seahawks over the course his career there. Edited July 1, 2015 by Protocal69
Kirby Jackson Posted July 1, 2015 Posted July 1, 2015 (edited) I can't look it up but has Brady ever been a team with a worse defense than NO had last year? Â How many good Qbs won't be really good with the #1 defense and a dominant rb? I think that the Saints defense last year was the worst ever (but I'm not positive). Edited July 1, 2015 by Kirby Jackson
C.Biscuit97 Posted July 1, 2015 Posted July 1, 2015 Don't forget to factor in the worst receiving corps in the league and a below average offensive line. Their oline looks great for Lynch. Tate signed a good free agent contract and Baldwin isn't terrible. Not a good group but is it any worse than Brady's early in his career? Â Again, Wilson is solid to good. Just gets way too much credit for the Seahwaks being a great team.
Protocal69 Posted July 1, 2015 Posted July 1, 2015 (edited) I think that the Saints defense last year was the worst ever (but I'm not positive). I am not sure about that but the BILLS 2012 defense too me was the worst ever. Here are some example from that year. We gave up at 45 points 4 times that year. 2 time that year it was back to back ( 52pts to the Pats and then 45pts to the Niners). Seattle scored 43/50pts including running a fake punt for 38 yards to the buffalo 12 yard line while up 30pts with 12:48 left in 4th quarter. We gave up 48 to Mark Sanchez, yes Mark Sanchez for crying out loud. We gave up 35 to the Titans and another 37 to the Pats. The best game we played that year on defense was to the Colts which was Andrew Luck rookie season and The season finally against the Jets. Â P.S. 2012 Bills Avg PPG Against 27.19 2014 Saints Avg PPG Against 26.50 Edited July 1, 2015 by Protocal69
metzelaars_lives Posted July 2, 2015 Posted July 2, 2015 (edited) I think that the Saints defense last year was the worst ever (but I'm not positive). That was two years ago when the Saints had an historically bad defense. Their oline looks great for Lynch. Tate signed a good free agent contract and Baldwin isn't terrible. Not a good group but is it any worse than Brady's early in his career? Â Again, Wilson is solid to good. Just gets way too much credit for the Seahwaks being a great team. And Russell Wilson is not just "solid to good." He is a top ten QB in the NFL right now by any calculation. He could very well be top five. I'm really starting to question whether or not people actually watch the guy play. His career passer rating is 98.6, which would place him second all time- behind only Aaron Rodgers- if he played enough to qualify. Add to that his running abilities and leadership qualities and he's really, really good. Only on twobillsdrive can people be critical about Russell freaking Wilson and have such baseless blind faith in EJ Manuel. Edited July 2, 2015 by metzelaars_lives
LB3 Posted July 2, 2015 Posted July 2, 2015 Their oline looks great for Lynch. Tate signed a good free agent contract and Baldwin isn't terrible. Not a good group but is it any worse than Brady's early in his career? Â Again, Wilson is solid to good. Just gets way too much credit for the Seahwaks being a great team. The OL looks great for Lynch because Wilson is such a threat to pull and run/pass. Having to account for his threat is like an extra two blockers for Lynch. Â Tate is a good #2. Baldwin is decent, but having him as a #1 means that the corps is bad. Brady wasn't throwing for that much more than Wilson his first three years either, and definitely didn't have the production with his legs that Wilson does. Let's also not forget that defense is as big of a reason why Brady won those titles as Wilson's D was. I think Brady is top 3 all time. I don't think Wilson is there, but it's early and to say he's overrated is just not something I can agree with at all. That was two years ago when the Saints had an historically bad defense. Â And Russell Wilson is not just "solid to good." He is a top ten QB in the NFL right now by any calculation. He could very well be top five. I'm really starting to question whether or not people actually watch the guy play. His career passer rating is 98.6, which would place him second all time- behind only Aaron Rodgers- if he played enough to qualify. Add to that his running abilities and leadership qualities and he's really, really good. Only on twobillsdrive can people be critical about Russell freaking Wilson and have such baseless blind faith in EJ Manuel. This is precisely why BF4E calls you a troll. WE GET IT. You don't like EJ. You don't need to inject your belief that he isn't good into every discussion.
Kirby Jackson Posted July 2, 2015 Posted July 2, 2015 That was two years ago when the Saints had an historically bad defense.I think that it was 2012 actually but they were an atrocity last year as well. It should have cost Rob Ryan his job. They were so, so, so bad last year. I don't even remember why this topic game up but that Saints defense was as painful to watch as just about any unit I've ever seen.
YoloinOhio Posted July 2, 2015 Posted July 2, 2015 I think that it was 2012 actually but they were an atrocity last year as well. It should have cost Rob Ryan his job. They were so, so, so bad last year. I don't even remember why this topic game up but that Saints defense was as painful to watch as just about any unit I've ever seen.how does Rob Ryan keep his job when they have that short window with Brees? Did they blame the personnel? Fwiw I thought Rob was a good DC when he was in Cleveland.
Rico Posted July 2, 2015 Posted July 2, 2015 Luck is 3-3 in the playoffs in three seasons as a pro. That's really good. Don't worry, he'll win plenty of playoff games before it's said and done. Agreed that 3-3 for his first 3 years is really good. I'm much more impressed with 6-2 and 1 ring though, Wilson's my pick.
Kirby Jackson Posted July 2, 2015 Posted July 2, 2015 how does Rob Ryan keep his job when they have that short window with Brees? Did they blame the personnel? Fwiw I thought Rob was a good DC when he was in Cleveland.They chalked it up to injuries somewhat but brought in Dennis Allen to keep an eye on him. I thought Rob Ryan did a good job the year before but they were a disaster last year.
YoloinOhio Posted July 2, 2015 Posted July 2, 2015 They chalked it up to injuries somewhat but brought in Dennis Allen to keep an eye on him. I thought Rob Ryan did a good job the year before but they were a disaster last year.i didn't know they hired Allen. That's a good addition.
Recommended Posts