Deranged Rhino Posted June 29, 2015 Posted June 29, 2015 I am surprised no one has brought up the times that Gray was seemingly targeted and even when he caught the ball. Those were clearly meant for Sammy, and he didn't catch them. Orton had hair confusion. Gray actually had more catches than targets in 2015 making him the greatest receiver of all time.
Maury Ballstein Posted June 29, 2015 Posted June 29, 2015 and his qb sucked (sorry Ryanlbilz) Tahj Boyd Sammy Watkins Dabo Sweeney > Marrone EJ Watkins Screen game like hot fire !!
YoloinOhio Posted June 29, 2015 Posted June 29, 2015 Tahj Boyd Sammy Watkins Dabo Sweeney > Marrone EJ Watkins Screen game like hot fire !! well when you add in the coaches...!
FireChan Posted June 29, 2015 Posted June 29, 2015 LOL. Expect a sharp retort from Ryan. But even he'd concede Boyd was no Jay Cutler. Seriously though, compared to most college QBs, Boyd was adequate. But he was no match for Watkins' abilities which require a good QB to really exploit. Even injured, Sammy had little problem getting "NFL open" last year. Unfortunately, our QBs were really the NFL equivalent of the college Tajh Boyd. GO BILLS!!! Jay?
vorpma Posted June 29, 2015 Posted June 29, 2015 For the older fans................... reminds me of John Rauch's brilliant plan of using O.J. Simpson as a "decoy" .
Formerly Allan in MD Posted June 29, 2015 Posted June 29, 2015 Uh, he was playing injured most of the season and had little in the way of quarterback to get him the ball.
K-9 Posted June 29, 2015 Posted June 29, 2015 Jay? Yep. Ryan is the charter member of the Smokin' Jay Cutler fan club. Ask him, he'll tell ya. GO BILLS!!!
PO16FFS Posted June 30, 2015 Posted June 30, 2015 Dougie Marrone! I wonder if he still wants to beat his dog?
Augie Posted June 30, 2015 Posted June 30, 2015 For the older fans................... reminds me of John Rauch's brilliant plan of using O.J. Simpson as a "decoy" . That hurt! Then, and now....
maddenboy Posted June 30, 2015 Posted June 30, 2015 (edited) Based on the above, I’m hopeful that Greg Roman will make an effort to not only put Watkins in a position where he can run a greater variety of routes that maximize his range of talents, but also make it a point of emphasis for the QBs to simply give him more chances to make plays on the deep routes that he runs. I have been banging this drum for years. This I why I loved Tuel, and really liked Orton. They both seemed to be wired to always remember their main job - give players a chance to make a play. Treat the ball like a grenade, not like its your infant daughter. Not wait for guys to be obviously open, but rather to give these top athletes several opportunities to use their rare skills. There's only about 10-12 real QBs in the league. The others had better learn to start opening it up, in a league where the rules now allow for 3 things to happen on a pass, and 2 of them are good. Edited June 30, 2015 by maddenboy
GunnerBill Posted June 30, 2015 Posted June 30, 2015 There's only about 10-12 real QBs in the league. The others had better learn to start opening it up, in a league where the rules now allow for 3 things to happen on a pass, and 2 of them are good. Surely 4 things? Completion and PI/holding call on the D are good...... INT or incomplete pass are bad?
Kemp Posted June 30, 2015 Posted June 30, 2015 How Watkins was used was primarily because no one could throw it to him. No matter what analytics you use, Beckham was way better, though, which further reinforces that what they gave up for Watkins was too much.
LB3 Posted June 30, 2015 Posted June 30, 2015 (edited) No matter what analytics you use, Beckham was way better, though, which further reinforces that what they gave up for Watkins was too much. Edited June 30, 2015 by LBSeeBallLBGetBall
Dopey Posted June 30, 2015 Posted June 30, 2015 Awesome post, Bandit. Someone once posted some similar data comparing OBJ to Sammy. Both of you reached the same conclusion: Sammy was misused. Had he been used more like OBJ, he probably would have put up OBJ type numbers. I've read informed articles that articulately argued Roman is one of the great run-coordinating gurus of our day. But as a passing game coordinator, his record is mixed. It'll be interesting to see what kind of passing attack he puts together and how he uses Sammy, Harvin, Woods and Clay. Sadly, I'm old enough to remember this. let me help you buddy. I think what you meant to say was "I am lucky enough to have lived long enough to remember". Live life!
thebandit27 Posted June 30, 2015 Author Posted June 30, 2015 I have been banging this drum for years. This I why I loved Tuel, and really liked Orton. They both seemed to be wired to always remember their main job - give players a chance to make a play. Treat the ball like a grenade, not like its your infant daughter. Not wait for guys to be obviously open, but rather to give these top athletes several opportunities to use their rare skills. There's only about 10-12 real QBs in the league. The others had better learn to start opening it up, in a league where the rules now allow for 3 things to happen on a pass, and 2 of them are good. I disagree with pretty much all of that. I'm not sure how you can agree with the statement that the QBs didn't give Watkins opportunities to make plays on the ball, and then credit the QB that played 12 games for this team for giving Watkins opportunities to make plays on the ball. Also, there's more than 12 real QBs in the league IMO: Brady, Flacco, Big Ben, Dalton, Luck, P. Manning, Rivers, Wilson, Palmer, Stafford, Rodgers, Ryan, Newton, Brees, E. Manning, Romo. That's 16 without including fringe guys like Tannehill, Alex Smith, Carr, Foles, Bridgewater, and Bradford. How Watkins was used was primarily because no one could throw it to him. No matter what analytics you use, Beckham was way better, though, which further reinforces that what they gave up for Watkins was too much. Wait...you're telling me that Watkins was targeted on 2 WR screens all season because the QBs couldn't throw to him? No. Does that logic also apply to the idea that they used Watkins primarily (as in 28.5% of the time) on Go routes? That was because the QBs couldn't throw him the ball? Beckham had 18 targets on WR screens in 4 fewer games. It takes almost no ability to throw a WR screen; that's why they're so prevalent in the college game. I don't even know how to respond to that supposition other than to say that game planning is 100% responsible for how Watkins was used. If what you were saying were true, he'd have far fewer targets on Go and Post routes, and far more on screens and crossing routes, which simply isn't the case. As for Beckham being way better, well, playing with a 2-time Superbowl winning QB and an OC that isn't afraid to target him (22 times in Week 17 by the way) can do that..
hondo in seattle Posted June 30, 2015 Posted June 30, 2015 let me help you buddy. I think what you meant to say was "I am lucky enough to have lived long enough to remember". Live life! My oldest Bills memory is of Mini Max Andersen swallowing his tongue. The whole concept was very frightening to me at nine/ten years old. But thanks for the perspective... Will sleep more at ease tonight. Stay thirsty my friend.
Sisyphean Bills Posted June 30, 2015 Posted June 30, 2015 Well, with Marrone coaching the OL personally, was there really much opportunity to use Sam Watkins as a serious deep threat? With a line as stout as wet toilet paper up front and a QB who came in to start straight off a training camp working the 12 ounce curl sets from his living room recliner ... well, like some people said at the time, the Sammy Watkins trade was strictly brilliant, save for the fact some had no idea how the coaches would get him the ball consistently.
San-O Posted June 30, 2015 Posted June 30, 2015 Beautiful. Thank you. So much for Buffalo Bills "analytics"!!!!
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