boyst Posted June 27, 2015 Posted June 27, 2015 I am curious to the old speed part of hte game. The idea position is put your fastest guys at the LOS so they already have an extra yard or two to beat the DB. While the fragile or possession WR might play off line to gain an advantage of separation. I haven't followed the game as closely as I used to the last few years. This year I hope to wathc more.
NoSaint Posted June 27, 2015 Posted June 27, 2015 (edited) Right, me saying that Hogan is #4 is just saying that for the WR group, not possession players period. I think he'll prove valuable in certain situations because of his versatility, toughness, hands, and crisp route running, and it's not like he's slow either, he's just not Goodwin. Goodwin has great hands and is fast, but is a bit sloppier on route running, and hasn't proven to be reliably healthy so far (maybe just bad luck, who knows), didn't really intend to turn it into a Goodwin/Hogan debate, just I feel like the top 4 WRs could easily play slot at any given time. My angle wasn't so much Goodwin vs hogan in the sense of better nfl player as much as much as noting that the best way for your 5th target (behind the 3wrs that are all very complete and finally having a TE that's also versatile) is by having some quality that is special and thus getting you a package or two. League elite speed, height in the redzone, a big body blocker for a heavy package as a few examples why 1 of those guys could come out Hogan doesn't do any one think better than woods or clay so why sit them down? Goodwin in packages could steal a few reps in an effort to take the top off the defense. If one of those guys gets hurt hogan might be a better fill in for a more full time role, possibly. What situation do you pull woods or clay for hogan? Edited June 27, 2015 by NoSaint
Saxum Posted June 27, 2015 Posted June 27, 2015 Hogan is best blocker on the WRs so will be used in bunch formations and extended screens.
Agent 91 Posted June 27, 2015 Posted June 27, 2015 The pre-season writing off of Hogan continues. Hogan will earn his playing time yet again. Why? Because he is more talented than most on here give him credit for and because he works his butt off. I'm a definite believer now. After the two clutch catches he had to win the ball game last year. I wouldn't mind a lunch pail guy who can make plays when needed.
machine gun kelly Posted June 27, 2015 Posted June 27, 2015 I'm thinking Boobie Dixon might see some time in the slot. It will be called the bowling ball route. That was funny.
GunnerBill Posted June 27, 2015 Posted June 27, 2015 I think there will be some 4 wide looks with Hogan in and I also think that by the end of the season Sammy will be the only guy that doesn't sub off for him. He will get snaps both in place of Woods and in place of Harvin. Will he be out there every snap? No. But he will earn more snaps as this thing goes along.
Dorkington Posted June 27, 2015 Posted June 27, 2015 My angle wasn't so much Goodwin vs hogan in the sense of better nfl player as much as much as noting that the best way for your 5th target (behind the 3wrs that are all very complete and finally having a TE that's also versatile) is by having some quality that is special and thus getting you a package or two. League elite speed, height in the redzone, a big body blocker for a heavy package as a few examples why 1 of those guys could come out Hogan doesn't do any one think better than woods or clay so why sit them down? Goodwin in packages could steal a few reps in an effort to take the top off the defense. If one of those guys gets hurt hogan might be a better fill in for a more full time role, possibly. What situation do you pull woods or clay for hogan? That's basically what I was saying, Hogan is a better every down guy, and I was speaking under the assumption that WRs get hurt, or need to take a few plays off here or there. And Goodwin is better suited for the homerun. I think we're on the same page, I'm not suggesting sitting anyone for Hogan
YattaOkasan Posted June 27, 2015 Posted June 27, 2015 Wondering what you guys thought of this. Hogan, I envision, to be used more in 4 receiver sets because this personnel grouping will see more zone coverage, and his route running should have him open with our other 3 receivers out there. Basically obvious passing downs/formations I expect to see Hogan, and I expect to see him get a lot of targets because the defense will be keyed in on the other 3 receivers. Goodwin, I envision, to be used more in 3 receiver sets because he can blow the lid off the defense and will prevent safeties from creeping into the box. The choice for the defense basically being try to stop the run and give up a shot to Goodwin over the top, or keep Goodwin contained and allow us to run. Putting Goodwin out on 3 receiver sets will also allow Harvin to rest, which I think he'll need because he will get some touches out of the backfield. To summarize on second and short or first down, will be when Goodwin gets the bulk of his snaps. Hogan will see snaps in all situations, but I would be surprised not to see him on the field if its 3rd and long.
boyst Posted June 27, 2015 Posted June 27, 2015 Wondering what you guys thought of this. Hogan, I envision, to be used more in 4 receiver sets because this personnel grouping will see more zone coverage, and his route running should have him open with our other 3 receivers out there. Basically obvious passing downs/formations I expect to see Hogan, and I expect to see him get a lot of targets because the defense will be keyed in on the other 3 receivers. Goodwin, I envision, to be used more in 3 receiver sets because he can blow the lid off the defense and will prevent safeties from creeping into the box. The choice for the defense basically being try to stop the run and give up a shot to Goodwin over the top, or keep Goodwin contained and allow us to run. Putting Goodwin out on 3 receiver sets will also allow Harvin to rest, which I think he'll need because he will get some touches out of the backfield. To summarize on second and short or first down, will be when Goodwin gets the bulk of his snaps. Hogan will see snaps in all situations, but I would be surprised not to see him on the field if its 3rd and long. I worry when Hogan is on the field for 3rd down. The guy never runs for the first. I get it is in his route but if you need 7 yards on 3rd he runs a 6 yard route. If we need 3 yards he gets 2. It's bizzare.
3rdand12 Posted June 27, 2015 Posted June 27, 2015 My angle wasn't so much Goodwin vs hogan in the sense of better nfl player as much as much as noting that the best way for your 5th target (behind the 3wrs that are all very complete and finally having a TE that's also versatile) is by having some quality that is special and thus getting you a package or two. League elite speed, height in the redzone, a big body blocker for a heavy package as a few examples why 1 of those guys could come out Hogan doesn't do any one think better than woods or clay so why sit them down? Goodwin in packages could steal a few reps in an effort to take the top off the defense. If one of those guys gets hurt hogan might be a better fill in for a more full time role, possibly. What situation do you pull woods or clay for hogan? decoy. reverse psych-ology lull them to sleep I worry when Hogan is on the field for 3rd down. The guy never runs for the first. I get it is in his route but if you need 7 yards on 3rd he runs a 6 yard route. If we need 3 yards he gets 2. It's bizzare. Play calling? check down? and yes i did visit my farmer today. i support my local. I am curious to the old speed part of hte game. The idea position is put your fastest guys at the LOS so they already have an extra yard or two to beat the DB. While the fragile or possession WR might play off line to gain an advantage of separation. I haven't followed the game as closely as I used to the last few years. This year I hope to wathc more. This is the best year to get focused on the Bills
boyst Posted June 27, 2015 Posted June 27, 2015 decoy. reverse psych-ology lull them to sleep Play calling? check down? and yes i did visit my farmer today. i support my local. This is the best year to get focused on the Bills I had meant in general. I have not watched much football like I used to in the last 2 years as I did the years before. In my 20's I would wake up and have football on all weekend and study film, study plays, etc between games. It was partially checking down and it was also partially because I do not think Hogan is that football smart - yet. Those are the basic principles of it. To elaborate on the first I do not like that we checked down so much last year which makes me miss Fitzgibbons. He would check down but he would also take ridiculous chances when necessary to move the ball to the first down despite his physical limitations. Fitzwilliams is a very smart football player (and guy). Hogan doesn't seem to have reality in his head. He knows he's athletic and I think he believes himself able to get that first down and YAC by athleticism alone. He is probably one of the best athletes on the field when he is there, which is not saying a whole ton of a lot because when Moorman was on the field he was, too. But, when you take the cream of the crop of athlete and put them on the field the 1% that separates the very best from the next category isn't much. What we need from Hogan is routes outside the hashes where he can make the catch and get out of bounds. What we need from Goodwin is over the middle, through the seam where he may get broke but who gives a crap? What we need from Harvin is a little of both - run him in the seam, run him in the flat, bubble screens where Clay pulls the linebacker off Harvin. Our slot WR next year will be rotated often and as others have said Dixon may be worthwhile in the slot. If we kept Spiller he would fill this role as good as Harvin and McCoy would. Thanks for going to your local farm! Fruits are coming in all over the country, we have our blueberries, peaches, mulberries, loganberries, currants, strawberries, blackberries, plums and nectarines coming in. We actually have one little baby pomegranate this year!
3rdand12 Posted June 27, 2015 Posted June 27, 2015 so you have the Bills keeping both Hogan and FlashGoodwin too? I expect Hogan to be a smarter player this year and possibly a better asset when play calling. Hogan will make a fine 4th receiver and Goodwin might be more of a package player . congrats on the pomegranate. Hopefully you yield more next year ! When i was southern boy, waay back when, i used to love those suckers
Saxum Posted June 27, 2015 Posted June 27, 2015 I worry when Hogan is on the field for 3rd down. The guy never runs for the first. I get it is in his route but if you need 7 yards on 3rd he runs a 6 yard route. If we need 3 yards he gets 2. It's bizzare. Never is a complete exaggeration. Better translation: The guy never runs for the first position in line to buy my hormone-free, grass fed beef. Thanks for going to your local farm! Fruits are coming in all over the country, we have our blueberries, peaches, mulberries, loganberries, currants, strawberries, blackberries, plums and nectarines coming in. We actually have one little baby pomegranate this year! Keep up with pomegranates! I buy boxes of them now, love how they are sweet and crunchy at same time. Love almost every fruit except avacados; I am allergic to Hispanic and think I am becoming allergic to Indian.
boyst Posted June 27, 2015 Posted June 27, 2015 Never is a complete exaggeration. Better translation: The guy never runs for the first position in line to buy my hormone-free, grass fed beef. Keep up with pomegranates! I buy boxes of them now, love how they are sweet and crunchy at same time. Love almost every fruit except avacados; I am allergic to Hispanic and think I am becoming allergic to Indian. You know what I mean, though. It was almost certain that you get Spillers rushing stat line to look like: 1, -3, 9.
billsfan89 Posted June 28, 2015 Posted June 28, 2015 I think Hogan ends up being the slot receiver. I see Harvin getting hurt. Hogan has a good skillset out of the slot and if Harvin gets hurt Hogan wll step in.
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