OCinBuffalo Posted June 26, 2015 Posted June 26, 2015 We have to be better than these guys. I don't need to link anything, youtube is full of 1985 Bears highlights. Google is your friend. I have more than enough to prove the 1985 Bears are the best, so don't bother, and, that's not what this thread is about. But.... IF we are going to use the 1985 Bears D as a measuring tool, we have to do it with a few caveats and nuances. First, the rules have changed. You can see that in the every youtube you watch, as the Bears are headshotting everybody on the field, especially the QB(Joe Ferguson playing for Lions...looks dead). It's not just headshots, another reason the Bears are the best is: they created the need for rule changes to help the O, all over the field, especially in the secondary. The Bears got away with what would be instant penalties now, yes, but, they also are the reason those penalties were created. There are lots of things to consider, but, this thread is about swinging for the fences, and fun. So, let's look at the stats we need to be in the ballpark of the 1985 Bears: Record: 15-1 Points Allowed: 198 Yds/G: 258.4 Sacks: 64 INTs: 34 Yds/G Opp. Rushing: 82.4 Last year for us: Record: 9-7 Points Allowed: 289(#1 = SEA, 254) Yds/G: 312.2(#1 = SEA, 267.1) Sacks: 54(#1) INTs: 19(#1 = SF, 23) Yds/G Opp. Rushing: 106.4 (#1 = DET, 69.3) As you can see, we have a ways to go(and so does SEA) to even be in range of the 1985 Bears stats. However, given the rule changes, it might make sense for us to look at adopting some sort of adjustments. In closing, there is one stat from last year that = the 1985 Bears! 16 Passing TDs allowed on the season. As I have said many, many times, Defense always starts at the back, not the front.
Wayne Cubed Posted June 26, 2015 Posted June 26, 2015 It looks like the points allowed average for the league in 1985 was 344.5, in 2014 it was 361.4. That's a 5% increase. So, if we apply that to what the Bears allowed in 1985(198 pts) the Bills in 2015 would need to be near 208. That's a bit of a way to go. Yards per game average for the league has increased roughly by 5% as well so the Bills would need to be at 271 YPG, which Seattle eclipsed in 2014. Average sacks in the league per team have gone down by 11%. I looked at 2013 as well and those sack numbers are down about the same amount as well. So the Bills aren't far off where they would need to be to compare to the 85' Bears. They would need 56 sacks. Interceptions have done down as well, by 34%. The Bills would need to intercept 22 balls. Rushing yards per game has gone down by 10% so the Bills would need at about 74 YPG. So here they are all together: Record: 15-1 Points Allowed: 208 Yds/G: 271 Sacks: 56 INTs: 22 Yds/G Opp. Rushing: 74
bmur66 Posted June 26, 2015 Posted June 26, 2015 I watched a replay yesterday or the '85 Superbowl against the Pats. Wow. That Bears defense was Baaaaaad! Seemed like every play in the first half that I watched was for negative yards or a turnover. Even got a view of young Rex on the sidelines. McMahon is still a goofball.
GunnerBill Posted June 26, 2015 Posted June 26, 2015 Now it is before my time so I might be well off base.... but wasn't the '86 Bears defense statistically better than the '85 D? Sure I have heard that somewhere.
eball Posted June 26, 2015 Posted June 26, 2015 (edited) How does the 2000 Ravens D stack up? Ok, I did my own research: 12-4 W-L 165 Points Allowed 247.9 Yards Allowed/Game 60.6 Rushing Yards/Game 23 INT (but 49 total turnovers) 35 Sacks Pretty damn good Edited June 26, 2015 by eball
ko12010 Posted June 26, 2015 Posted June 26, 2015 How does the 2000 Ravens D stack up? Ok, I did my own research: 12-4 W-L 165 Points Allowed 247.9 Yards Allowed/Game 60.6 Rushing Yards/Game 23 INT (but 49 total turnovers) 35 Sacks Pretty damn good Wow. I'd be interested in a comparison of their defensive players that year, starters and backups, compared to our projected defense this coming year. Just to discuss who has the edge player for player in our opinions. Those numbers are incredible, yet I can't really think of who they had at the time on defense. Lewis, Reed, Bart Scott (maybe?) come to mind. I don't think they had Ngata yet.
GunnerBill Posted June 26, 2015 Posted June 26, 2015 (edited) Chris McAlister and Corey Fuller were the corners from memory (or maybe that was too early?). I think I heard McAlister had been another one of the people helping out on the coaching internship thing with the Bills along with Andre Reed. Edited June 26, 2015 by GunnerBill
KD in CA Posted June 26, 2015 Posted June 26, 2015 The mid 80s Bears and the 2000 Ravens were unlike anything else I've seen. Offenses were so overwhelmed most looked like a college mismatch game. I love the Bills D, but they aren't anywhere near that level.
Mark80 Posted June 26, 2015 Posted June 26, 2015 (edited) We have to be better than these guys. I don't need to link anything, youtube is full of 1985 Bears highlights. Google is your friend. I have more than enough to prove the 1985 Bears are the best, so don't bother, and, that's not what this thread is about. But.... IF we are going to use the 1985 Bears D as a measuring tool, we have to do it with a few caveats and nuances. First, the rules have changed. You can see that in the every youtube you watch, as the Bears are headshotting everybody on the field, especially the QB(Joe Ferguson playing for Lions...looks dead). It's not just headshots, another reason the Bears are the best is: they created the need for rule changes to help the O, all over the field, especially in the secondary. The Bears got away with what would be instant penalties now, yes, but, they also are the reason those penalties were created. There are lots of things to consider, but, this thread is about swinging for the fences, and fun. So, let's look at the stats we need to be in the ballpark of the 1985 Bears: Record: 15-1 Points Allowed: 198 Yds/G: 258.4 Sacks: 64 INTs: 34 Yds/G Opp. Rushing: 82.4 Last year for us: Record: 9-7 Points Allowed: 289(#1 = SEA, 254) Yds/G: 312.2(#1 = SEA, 267.1) Sacks: 54(#1) INTs: 19(#1 = SF, 23) Yds/G Opp. Rushing: 106.4 (#1 = DET, 69.3) As you can see, we have a ways to go(and so does SEA) to even be in range of the 1985 Bears stats. However, given the rule changes, it might make sense for us to look at adopting some sort of adjustments. In closing, there is one stat from last year that = the 1985 Bears! 16 Passing TDs allowed on the season. As I have said many, many times, Defense always starts at the back, not the front. So the Bears success was about studs like Duerson, Fencik, Frazier, and Richardson? And not about guys like Singletary, Dent, McMichael, Marshal, Perry, Wilson, and Hampton? Yeah, ok. A dominate front 7 can make any DBs look great. The same cannot be said about dominate DBs for the front 7. But to your main point, yeah they were unbelievable and so were the Ravens as pointed out above. Edited June 26, 2015 by Mark80
BarleyNY Posted June 26, 2015 Posted June 26, 2015 It looks like the points allowed average for the league in 1985 was 344.5, in 2014 it was 361.4. That's a 5% increase. So, if we apply that to what the Bears allowed in 1985(198 pts) the Bills in 2015 would need to be near 208. That's a bit of a way to go. Yards per game average for the league has increased roughly by 5% as well so the Bills would need to be at 271 YPG, which Seattle eclipsed in 2014. Average sacks in the league per team have gone down by 11%. I looked at 2013 as well and those sack numbers are down about the same amount as well. So the Bills aren't far off where they would need to be to compare to the 85' Bears. They would need 56 sacks. Interceptions have done down as well, by 34%. The Bills would need to intercept 22 balls. Rushing yards per game has gone down by 10% so the Bills would need at about 74 YPG. So here they are all together: Record: 15-1 Points Allowed: 208 Yds/G: 271 Sacks: 56 INTs: 22 Yds/G Opp. Rushing: 74 Very well done there, OC. One additional caveat is that the salary cap wasn't adopted until '94. That makes it even tougher to replicate that kind of success - and makes the 2000 Ravens even more impressive (as much as it pains this Cleveland native to say it). I hope the Bills can keep a dominating defense together for many years, but other than retaining up our own I want to see the focus on improving the offense.
ko12010 Posted June 26, 2015 Posted June 26, 2015 The mid 80s Bears and the 2000 Ravens were unlike anything else I've seen. Offenses were so overwhelmed most looked like a college mismatch game. I love the Bills D, but they aren't anywhere near that level. How did that Ravens team even lose 4 games? I wonder if the losses were to other great defenses who were able to overwhelm the Raven's offense and keep it close. The mid 80s Bears and the 2000 Ravens were unlike anything else I've seen. Offenses were so overwhelmed most looked like a college mismatch game. I love the Bills D, but they aren't anywhere near that level. Let's see after this year! Who knows, maybe Rex really is as good as advertised and can take this D to a level like that.
GunnerBill Posted June 26, 2015 Posted June 26, 2015 How did that Ravens team even lose 4 games? I wonder if the losses were to other great defenses who were able to overwhelm the Raven's offense and keep it close. In each of their 4 losses they were held to 6 points or fewer.
Malazan Posted June 26, 2015 Posted June 26, 2015 They will also need to make a music video if they want to be better than that Bears team
Buftex Posted June 26, 2015 Posted June 26, 2015 How did that Ravens team even lose 4 games? I wonder if the losses were to other great defenses who were able to overwhelm the Raven's offense and keep it close. They didn't lose 4 games to great defenses...they had one of the all-time worst offenses...their defense was dominating enough to overcome the completely inept offense. This is the blueprint for what the Bills are trying to do, I think...though I don't think our offense will be near as awful. I do distinctly remember, when the playoffs started that year, almost nobody took the Ravens seriously...there were those saying that Billick would be fired when the season was over, because his offense (his specialty) was so atrocious. As I recall, late October, they lost 3 games in a row, and scored a total of about 12 points, but only gave up something like 30 in those 3 games. Tony Banks started the first half of the season and was awful...he lost his job to Dilfer, who was only marginally less awful. Shannon Sharpe was their only receiving threat, while their offense really depended on Jamal Lewis, who, at that point, was solid, not spectacular...young Priest Holmes as his back-up.... Of course, as you recall, Rex Ryan was the D-line coach on that team. He has seen it first hand, how to win with a team like this...I think he has been trying to re-create that magic ever since...the 2015 Bills may be his best team as head coach...
C.Biscuit97 Posted June 26, 2015 Posted June 26, 2015 They will also need to make a music video if they want to be better than that Bears team IMO, Superbowl Shuffle is one of the finest musical recordings ever. Sneaky fact, McMahon wasn't really that good. He was the original Trent Dilfer.
C.Biscuit97 Posted June 26, 2015 Posted June 26, 2015 I'd say his 2010 Jets team has a slight edge over our current team due to the fact that they had a great defense but also had a great offensive line. It opened up the running game and set up play action for the passing game.(I think they ran for almost 600 yards against us in the two combined games we play against them that year) Our offensive line is still a huge question mark and most likely won't be as dominant as that one. Yeah, those Jets teams might have had the best oline in the NFL. We have a ways to go. That said, not having Marrone is an improvement.
GunnerBill Posted June 26, 2015 Posted June 26, 2015 Talent wise that 2010 Jets o-line is better, at least on paper, than what we have... but let's wait and see our guys on the field for a bit first.... we have two coaches here in Kromer and Roman who have got the run game going everywhere they have been and they haven't always had spectacular o-line talent to work with. It is fair to say that it is a question mark at this stage but it is a unit that could have a big jump in its play.
C.Biscuit97 Posted June 26, 2015 Posted June 26, 2015 I hope so. Time will tell, Marrone gets a ton of flack on this board and I agree that he's a douche, but he did get the team to its first winning season in over 10 years. He had some what of a clue on how to coach even if the players disagreed with a lot of what he did. Eh, our defense (which he had little to do with) got us to our first winning season. Basically, our entire offense regressed. Marrone's best "coaching" talent was picking DCs.
GunnerBill Posted June 26, 2015 Posted June 26, 2015 I hope so. Time will tell, Marrone gets a ton of flack on this board and I agree that he's a douche, but he did get the team to its first winning season in over 10 years. He had some what of a clue on how to coach even if the players disagreed with a lot of what he did. I discussed this on another thread last week - I am not convinced he showed here he is a good "coach" as such but he certainly showed himself to be able to motivate a group and get guys pulling in the same direction - that is why we were able to win. Well, that and the appointment of an excellent D-Coordinator.
eball Posted June 26, 2015 Posted June 26, 2015 I hope so. Time will tell, Marrone gets a ton of flack on this board and I agree that he's a douche, but he did get the team to its first winning season in over 10 years. He had some what of a clue on how to coach even if the players disagreed with a lot of what he did. "Winning season" (cough) -- another way to put it is that Marrone took a supremely talented defensive team and got them to .500. Whoopee.
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