YoloinOhio Posted June 25, 2015 Posted June 25, 2015 In reading some of the posts in this thread, it is almost as if CJ is still on the team and this is where the haters have come out to play. I fully anticipate that there will be plenty of "discussion" about CJ during the regular season. we might need threads for CJ, Chandler, Kiko, maybe Stevie... To discuss their play with their new teams during the season. It's a tradition to either complain or gloat about ex-Bills.
The Big Cat Posted June 25, 2015 Posted June 25, 2015 we sometimes butt heads on opinion, but much appreciated on compiling some interesting numbers. its making for one of the more interesting threads in a bit. i think the only place we diverged we just happened to do so in a big way: was marrone holding the team back or did he deserve some credit for the first winning season in a decade. the truth undoubtedly lies somewhere in between, well, that was another Buddy Nix pick, one that was supposed to change the game for Buffalo... Another first rounder, gone... 'another?' i'm not sure i follow your point. do you mean to suggest that buddy nix habitually wasted draft picks, particularly first rounders? i think the evidence is more than clear at this point that from 2011-13, when nix had HIS guys in place, the bills were one of the better drafting teams in the NFL.
YattaOkasan Posted June 25, 2015 Posted June 25, 2015 i think the only place we diverged we just happened to do so in a big way: was marrone holding the team back or did he deserve some credit for the first winning season in a decade. the truth undoubtedly lies somewhere in between, 'another?' i'm not sure i follow your point. do you mean to suggest that buddy nix habitually wasted draft picks, particularly first rounders? i think the evidence is more than clear at this point that from 2011-13, when nix had HIS guys in place, the bills were one of the better drafting teams in the NFL. Thanks for the awesome work Big Cat, running the data and explaining the results. I plan on using that site to run some histograms. Don't know how to give you a big high five over the web. Do we have a like button yet?
The Big Cat Posted June 25, 2015 Posted June 25, 2015 Thanks for the awesome work Big Cat, running the data and explaining the results. I plan on using that site to run some histograms. Don't know how to give you a big high five over the web. Do we have a like button yet? Like button? Sadly, no. When they did an overhaul in like 2010 I suggested we get one, but alas. Thanks for the props, and yes, profootballreference is a GREAT tool!
Kelly the Dog Posted June 25, 2015 Posted June 25, 2015 That was 2013. The year Fred had a career year in TD's and first downs, and had his best YPC since his MVP season. Each of the last three years with the same line and circumstances Spiller had a better YPC than Fred, whom everyone thinks is great.
The Big Cat Posted June 25, 2015 Posted June 25, 2015 Each of the last three years with the same line and circumstances Spiller had a better YPC than Fred, whom everyone thinks is great. By 0.1 in 2014 and 0.3 in 2013. Meanwhile, Fred had 9 TD's to CJ's 2 in 2013. Are we counting that stat?
Kelly the Dog Posted June 25, 2015 Posted June 25, 2015 By 0.1 in 2014 and 0.3 in 2013. Meanwhile, Fred had 9 TD's to CJ's 2 in 2013. Are we counting that stat? He played at the goaline. That is to be expected. The point is obvious anyway.
The Big Cat Posted June 25, 2015 Posted June 25, 2015 He played at the goaline. That is to be expected. The point is obvious anyway. I guess what I (and others) are trying to grasp is why CJ's bad stats in 2013 don't count, while at the same time Fred's good stats don't count either.
Kelly the Dog Posted June 25, 2015 Posted June 25, 2015 I guess what I (and others) are trying to grasp is why CJ's bad stats in 2013 don't count, while at the same time Fred's good stats don't count either. Fred had average stats. 3.7 YPC sucks. CJ had a bad year. He's a very, very good player. He's just not an every down back and he gets hurt. Who knows more about running backs, you or Sean Payton?
FireChan Posted June 25, 2015 Posted June 25, 2015 (edited) Fred had average stats. 3.7 YPC sucks. CJ had a bad year. He's a very, very good player. He's just not an every down back and he gets hurt. Who knows more about running backs, you or Sean Payton? Me. I know CJ will do some dumb stuff to not get as many snaps as he should. I know CJ will get hurt and either be A. rendered ineffective or B. out for at least 1/4 of the season. I know CJ will have a game or two where he looks like a great RB. I know he'll have a game or two where you'll wonder why Ingram doesn't have the ball every play. I know that Brees will get killed at least once directly because of CJ. Edited June 25, 2015 by FireChan
The Big Cat Posted June 25, 2015 Posted June 25, 2015 Fred had average stats. 3.7 YPC sucks. CJ had a bad year. He's a very, very good player. He's just not an every down back and he gets hurt. Who knows more about running backs, you or Sean Payton? I prefer pepperoni on my pizza. Sausage is okay sometimes, and if my wife is in a bad mood and I just want to appease her, I'll spring for green peppers and onions. Who knows more about cars, you or Santa Clause?
FireChan Posted June 25, 2015 Posted June 25, 2015 Each of the last three years with the same line and circumstances Spiller had a better YPC than Fred, whom everyone thinks is great. Fred is and always has been a better football player than CJ. Indisputably.
Kelly the Dog Posted June 25, 2015 Posted June 25, 2015 Me. Well we all knew you were clinically insane, arrogant, no touch with reality, no understanding of the game of football, all while having delusions of grandeur. I was asking Big Cat. I prefer pepperoni on my pizza. Sausage is okay sometimes, and if my wife is in a bad mood and I just want to appease her, I'll spring for green peppers and onions. Who knows more about cars, you or Santa Clause? Me. There is no Santa Claus.
The Big Cat Posted June 25, 2015 Posted June 25, 2015 Fred is and always has been a better football player than CJ. Indisputably. /thread
FireChan Posted June 25, 2015 Posted June 25, 2015 Well we all knew you were clinically insane, arrogant, no touch with reality, no understanding of the game of football, all while having delusions of grandeur. I was asking Big Cat. Me. There is no Santa Claus.
Kelly the Dog Posted June 25, 2015 Posted June 25, 2015 Fred is and always has been a better football player than CJ. Indisputably.Fred has never made more money than CJ Spiller, which is how the NFL (unfortunately) decides how good you are. I think Fred is a better football player than CJ, too. Not now, but he has been. When Fred was at his very best, the first half of the season a few years ago he was MVP good. When Spiller was at his best he was quite amazing, and Pro Bowl good. Saying "CJ Spiller sucks" is saying "I am a retard."
The Big Cat Posted June 25, 2015 Posted June 25, 2015 Fred has never made more money than CJ Spiller, which is how the NFL (unfortunately) decides how good you are. I think Fred is a better football player than CJ, too. Not now, but he has been. When Fred was at his very best, the first half of the season a few years ago he was MVP good. When Spiller was at his best he was quite amazing, and Pro Bowl good. Saying "CJ Spiller sucks" is saying "I am a retard." The difference between Fred and CJ: Fans love Fred for what he's done. Fans love CJ because of what he's capable of doing.
NoSaint Posted June 25, 2015 Posted June 25, 2015 (edited) The difference between Fred and CJ: Fans love Fred for what he's done. Fans love CJ because of what he's capable of doing. and believe it or not i know what hes capable of because hes done quite a bit of it. i think an important factor is fans love fred for overachieving, and are frustrated by CJ for underachieving.... regardless of what those achievements/expectations are. Edited June 25, 2015 by NoSaint
YoloinOhio Posted June 25, 2015 Posted June 25, 2015 (edited) The difference between Fred and CJ: Fans love Fred for what he's done. Fans love CJ because of what he's capable of doing. i think they are different types of players with different stengths/weaknesses. What I hear a lot is, Fred will turn a zero gain into 3 yards by fighting fwd. CJ will turn a 3 yd gain into zero by running backward or sideways. Edited June 25, 2015 by YoloinOhio
FireChan Posted June 25, 2015 Posted June 25, 2015 Fred has never made more money than CJ Spiller, which is how the NFL (unfortunately) decides how good you are. I think Fred is a better football player than CJ, too. Not now, but he has been. When Fred was at his very best, the first half of the season a few years ago he was MVP good. When Spiller was at his best he was quite amazing, and Pro Bowl good. Saying "CJ Spiller sucks" is saying "I am a retard." The NFL has faulty economics involved. Freddy is a better player. Period.
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