ko12010 Posted June 24, 2015 Posted June 24, 2015 Of course I think winning four Super Bowls has something to do with his status as a 1st ballot HOFer. Not sure where you got the impression I didn't. It's the entire body of work that gets judged, though. Splitting hairs about the quality of his SB victories is really a reach, though. It took a helluva lot of good QBing to be in a position to win close SB games in the first place. GO BILLS!!! I know what you're saying, but just say Brady is/has cheated (no matter the scale of cheating) his entire career. All those wins and that good quarterbacking were partly a result of the cheating. That body of work is tainted imo, because we will never know how much the cheating contributed to that good quarterbacking. Whatever anyone wants to say about Tom Brady, the man is not stupid. I don't think he gets involved in any sort of premeditated cheating if he doesn't seriously believe the benefits outweigh the risk of getting caught. So I simply disagree, respectfully of course, with anyone who thinks Brady was/is just so damn good he didn't need to cheat and still would have had the amazing career he has had. Deflating footballs and Spygate--the enormity of which I believe was concealed--may not seem so significant when viewed as just the act itself. But added up over an entire 15 year career? That cheating had a MAJOR impact. And while stats are hard to prove simply because they can be twisted to fit one's agenda fairly easily, there is evidence out there that Brady started deflating in 2007, the year that the Pats** started an impossibly low run of fumbling, especially at home.
D521646 Posted June 24, 2015 Posted June 24, 2015 I DVR'd the NFL total access last night but when it became clear the whole god damn show was about Brady I deleted it. My God, how many different ways can you find to talk about the same freaking thing? jesus.. Tim-
K-9 Posted June 24, 2015 Posted June 24, 2015 I know what you're saying, but just say Brady is/has cheated (no matter the scale of cheating) his entire career. All those wins and that good quarterbacking were partly a result of the cheating. That body of work is tainted imo, because we will never know how much the cheating contributed to that good quarterbacking. Whatever anyone wants to say about Tom Brady, the man is not stupid. I don't think he gets involved in any sort of premeditated cheating if he doesn't seriously believe the benefits outweigh the risk of getting caught. So I simply disagree, respectfully of course, with anyone who thinks Brady was/is just so damn good he didn't need to cheat and still would have had the amazing career he has had. Deflating footballs and Spygate--the enormity of which I believe was concealed--may not seem so significant when viewed as just the act itself. But added up over an entire 15 year career? That cheating had a MAJOR impact. And while stats are hard to prove simply because they can be twisted to fit one's agenda fairly easily, there is evidence out there that Brady started deflating in 2007, the year that the Pats** started an impossibly low run of fumbling, especially at home. Well, in light of all that, I guess the answer is "we'll never know." Based on my observations of the way Brady plays the game at his position, he's a great QB. In every aspect. So it's hard for me to attribute all that to cheating. He still has to get his team in and out of the right plays, execute, lead, etc. But you are right in that the specter of cheating taints all the rest of it moving forward. I just don't happen to think any of it was necessary again, based on what I observe about the way he plays the game. GO BILLS!!!
ko12010 Posted June 24, 2015 Posted June 24, 2015 Well, in light of all that, I guess the answer is "we'll never know." Based on my observations of the way Brady plays the game at his position, he's a great QB. In every aspect. So it's hard for me to attribute all that to cheating. He still has to get his team in and out of the right plays, execute, lead, etc. But you are right in that the specter of cheating taints all the rest of it moving forward. I just don't happen to think any of it was necessary again, based on what I observe about the way he plays the game. GO BILLS!!! That's a fair assessment, and it's Brady's own fault for creating that seed of doubt and making football fans question his ability and wonder how much of his accomplishments are due to his own merit and what was helped by the cheating.
YoloinOhio Posted June 24, 2015 Posted June 24, 2015 @Deadspin: Totally agenda-less sources: Tom Brady is a really great guy. http://t.co/QxCoKwtIK2
DC Tom Posted June 24, 2015 Posted June 24, 2015 IF Brady*** gets off scott free he wil cheat even more and so will other teams. Why not? what's $1M to a wealthy owner? all he as to do is bump up parking prices by $1. Even if he doesn't get off scott-free. What player wouldn't trade a 4-game suspension for a Superbowl ring? This has already proven that cheating works.
Matt in KC Posted June 24, 2015 Posted June 24, 2015 If this did go to court, wouldn't it be Brady arguing Goodell doesn't have standing to suspend him? Would it revisit the details of this particular case i.e. Wells report, or would it just judge x if Goodell indeed has authority from the CBA and carried out the terms outlined therein? I don't see a court caring if he cheated or not, just if the process was followed and binding.
8-8 Forever? Posted June 24, 2015 Posted June 24, 2015 With the appeal in progress I was just thinking of some possible scenarios and figured these two were the most interesting. Now keep in mind that these options are including federal court appeals and such but was honestly curious. Would you prefer he played and go on record that he did in fact cheat or would you prefer him to do nothing and take the 4 games? It's a mixed emotion I feel thinking about it because obviously I think the Bills would be better off not playing him week 2 but I also would like all of the Pats** fans to realize that their golden boy is actually a liar and a cheater. What say you? Also, this is the first poll I've done so I probably screwed something up. EDIT: Yup, screwed up the polling. Either way. What do you think? as long as he misses game 2, I am good
ko12010 Posted June 24, 2015 Posted June 24, 2015 If this did go to court, wouldn't it be Brady arguing Goodell doesn't have standing to suspend him? Would it revisit the details of this particular case i.e. Wells report, or would it just judge x if Goodell indeed has authority from the CBA and carried out the terms outlined therein? I don't see a court caring if he cheated or not, just if the process was followed and binding. He will never take this to court. The threat of that is simply posturing on his part. But I wouldn't put it past Brady to have some connection or a fan at the phone company he uses who would be more than willing to alter his phone records.
K-9 Posted June 24, 2015 Posted June 24, 2015 If this did go to court, wouldn't it be Brady arguing Goodell doesn't have standing to suspend him? Would it revisit the details of this particular case i.e. Wells report, or would it just judge x if Goodell indeed has authority from the CBA and carried out the terms outlined therein? I don't see a court caring if he cheated or not, just if the process was followed and binding. Going to court is the only recourse Brady has if the league upholds the suspension, not that Goodell doesn't have standing because he certainly does as agreed to by the NFLPA and the CBA. And yes, it would revisit all the particular details, including the thousand+ pages that support the Wells summary report but it would also open up additional avenues of evidence like compelling Jastremski and McNally to testify and forcing Brady to submit his text records, etc. from his phone. The court doesn't care if he cheated or not. They are also VERY reluctant to rule contrary to collectively bargained disciplinary actions, the Petersen case notwithstanding. And even that is still pending. I hope it goes to court though. It would be a hoot. GO BILLS!!!
CodeMonkey Posted June 24, 2015 Posted June 24, 2015 I want Brady in the game when they play the Bills. Beating the Pats without him is meaningless (except for in the W/L column). Beating the Pats with him says a lot, and does not give Pats fans an excuse.
BillsFan-4-Ever Posted June 24, 2015 Posted June 24, 2015 I want Brady in the game when they play the Bills. Beating the Pats without him is meaningless (except for in the W/L column). Beating the Pats with him says a lot, and does not give Pats fans an excuse. no. I don't care about a silly platitude. Let the man** pay for his crimes. The Bills will get their opportunity to punish him later in the season.
BuffaloHokie13 Posted June 24, 2015 Posted June 24, 2015 I want Brady in the game when they play the Bills. Beating the Pats without him is meaningless (except for in the W/L column). Beating the Pats with him says a lot, and does not give Pats fans an excuse. You don't think it would be amazing to hear that excuse all year and then beat them again, with him, in Foxborough?
Direhard Fan Posted June 24, 2015 Posted June 24, 2015 The boy lied. The boy would not cooperate. He did not stand up as a man. He deserves the four games and never go to the Hall of Fame. He can take his money and go away. Poor excuse of lots of things. Hope he brings his kids up better but I doubt it.
Alphadawg7 Posted June 24, 2015 Posted June 24, 2015 With the appeal in progress I was just thinking of some possible scenarios and figured these two were the most interesting. Now keep in mind that these options are including federal court appeals and such but was honestly curious. Would you prefer he played and go on record that he did in fact cheat or would you prefer him to do nothing and take the 4 games? It's a mixed emotion I feel thinking about it because obviously I think the Bills would be better off not playing him week 2 but I also would like all of the Pats** fans to realize that their golden boy is actually a liar and a cheater. What say you? Also, this is the first poll I've done so I probably screwed something up. EDIT: Yup, screwed up the polling. Either way. What do you think? I honestly could care less about the deflation of the footballs...many players at the top of the NFL today, in the HOF, and all throughout history have done WAY worse...WAY worse. The impact is so comically and ridiculously being over blown that its getting annoying now. On the other hand, his refusal to cooperate in an investigation is inexcusable considering the rules exist in the first place due to the Patriots involvement in spygate (another over blown incident that was NOT unique to just the Pats). So, while I LOVE all the crap the Pats have to deal with and LOVE talking smack to the Pats friends i know who are friends, the reality is I really don't care about the incident and if he had just said they pushed the boundaries too much, a small fine would have been more than appropriate. However, his non cooperation warrants suspension time for me and I think 2 games was the appropriate amount of time and that 4 was excessive. I don't normally want to be beat teams when they are not at their best, but given its the 2nd game into a new regime and trying to find our rhythm in a new offense, I will welcome not having to face him early in the season, especially given how hard our opening schedule is and how pissed off Brady will be and he has a proven track record of torching this league when pissed.
Mr. WEO Posted June 24, 2015 Posted June 24, 2015 He will accept the 2 game suspension. Every suspension gets reduced...
YoloinOhio Posted June 24, 2015 Posted June 24, 2015 He will accept the 2 game suspension. Every suspension gets reduced... maybe already posted but Sal Pal predicted a 1 game suspension today. He will get a letter from Roger saying he is exonerated which is what Brady wants. The 1 game will be for not cooperating with initial investigation. Basically because neither wants to go to court. Worse case for Bills fans, but i could see this.
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