Greece

[truth on hold]

 

Which Merkel was that? This one?

 

Ms Merkel’s declaration that “Europe fails, if the euro fails”

http://www.ft.com/intl/cms/s/0/5e17d12c-1dce-11e5-ab0f-6bb9974f25d0.html#axzz3eaIgE77U

 

Merkel said that doesn't mean there can't be talks.

"The door is open for talks — that is all I can say at this hour," she said.

http://finance.yahoo.com/news/latest-merkel-says-door-open-115440749.html

 

Interesting article here too....Germany has offered a rich bailout proposal, its Greece rejecting it

 

Across the spectrum, German leaders condemn Greece's rejection of EU deal

http://www.ekathimerini.com/198488/article/ekathimerini/news/across-the-spectrum-german-leaders-condemn-greeces-rejection-of-eu-deal

[Jauronimo]

 

Wages in the public sector were on average almost one and half times higher than in the private sector. Government spending on public employees’ salaries and social benefits rose by around 6.5 percentage points of G.D.P. from 2000 to 2009, while revenue declined by 5 percentage points during the same period. The solution was to borrow more.

 

 

The expansion of Greece’s huge government sector took decades to create, but its growth in recent years has been particularly striking. Public employment grew by fivefold from 1970 through 2009 — at an annual growth rate of 4 percent, according to a recent academic study by Zafiris Tzannatos and Iannis Monogios.. Over the same four decades, employment in the private sector increased by only 27 percent — an annual rate of less than 1 percent.

 

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/10/11/opinion/the-cost-of-protecting-greeces-public-sector.html?_r=0

 

 

http://www.wsj.com/articles/greece-struggles-to-get-citizens-to-pay-their-taxes-1424867495

 

 

The International Monetary Fund and Greece’s other creditors have argued for years that the country’s debt crisis could be largely resolved if the government just cracked down on tax evasion. Tax debts in Greece equal about 90% of annual tax revenue, the highest shortfall among industrialized nations, according to the Organization for Economic Cooperation and Development.

 

its no mystery why Greece is eating ****.

Edited June 30, 2015 by Jauronimo

[B-Man]

Europe’s dream is dying in Greece.

 

 

 

The Greek Crisis: Too Little Democracy, Too Much Bureaucracy.

 

 

 

 

GEORGE WILL: A GREEK DEFAULT WOULD BE A VALUABLE LESSON IN BASIC ECONOMICS:

 

 

 

 

.

[GG]

Ms Merkel’s declaration that “Europe fails, if the euro fails”

http://www.ft.com/intl/cms/s/0/5e17d12c-1dce-11e5-ab0f-6bb9974f25d0.html#axzz3eaIgE77U

 

Merkel said that doesn't mean there can't be talks.

"The door is open for talks — that is all I can say at this hour," she said.

http://finance.yahoo.com/news/latest-merkel-says-door-open-115440749.html

 

Interesting article here too....Germany has offered a rich bailout proposal, its Greece rejecting it

 

Across the spectrum, German leaders condemn Greece's rejection of EU deal

http://www.ekathimerini.com/198488/article/ekathimerini/news/across-the-spectrum-german-leaders-condemn-greeces-rejection-of-eu-deal

 

And you wonder why you're in the perpetual idiot club?

 

Merkel is lamenting the collapse of the Euro, which is precisely why the Northern EU is taking a hardline with Greece, and are willing to toss them overboard, because Greece is unwilling to live up to the EU compact terms. Greece is playing a dangerous game of chicken by subscribing to your thinking that the rest of EU will equate abandoning Greece as abandoning the Euro. Think again.

[truth on hold]

Nice!!!

 

Greece defaults on $1.7 billion IMF payment In a dramatic but widely expected step, Greece formally defaulted on a $1.7 billion payment to the International Monetary Fund early Wednesday in Athens.

 

Greece became the first developed country to default to the IMF, an organization of 188 nations that tries to keep the world economy stable.

http://money.cnn.com/2015/06/30/news/economy/greece-imf-default/

Edited July 1, 2015 by JTSP

[meazza]

Why is that nice?

[Magox]

What happened to many of the local municipalities and state governments here in the US was a microcosm to what happened over in Greece. Public sector unions corrupted officials with support for their campaigns and in return they wanted more local/state jobs, even higher wages and ridiculous worker protections. We had a couple RE/Dot.com bubbles that gave us a false sense of security believing that we could just continue to keep doing these things. Of course, it was unsustainable. Once the bubble burst, there wasn't the tax revenues nor the funding through the bond markets to keep up all these jobs, hence the massive state/local government layoffs throughout the 2008-2012 time period.

 

Similar thing occurred in Greece. There was never any problem with foreign creditors buying up their crappy bonds chasing after those high yields. One thing that the world wide downturn did achieve is that it forced these creditors/investors to examine their finances a little more closely. After a while, with crashing revenues and a horrid fiscal picture, everyone bailed. It's not that Greece in itself is the risk, its who is the next shoe to drop? That's the risk.

 

Of course, Greece is in quite the dilemma. They are being told by those mean old Germans who are primarily the ones who have been bailing them and other irresponsible southern European countries out, how to run their finances. How many government jobs they have to ax, the pensions they promised have to be reduced and what the newer higher accepted tax rates will look like.

 

People are ignorant, pretty much everywhere. Yes, they elected these fools that made these decisions. But many of these people now have to go through a very painful down sizing process. So I feel bad for many of these folks. Unfortunately, it is a necessary evil. The only way they will get through this are with draconian measures. This is what happened a couple years ago, and of course the Greek people were upset that the Germans were dictating their lives, hence the new uber left wing party came into power, promising to stand up against the Meanies from the North.

 

Well, they got what they wanted.

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

hmmmm

 

http://www.wsj.com/articles/SB11486026120286184909004581077960515036484

[meazza]

hmmmm

 

http://www.wsj.com/articles/SB11486026120286184909004581077960515036484

 

[unbillievable]

Anyone have an account with WSJ. I don't like just reading headlines.

[truth on hold]

What happened to many of the local municipalities and state governments here in the US was a microcosm to what happened over in Greece. Public sector unions corrupted officials with support for their campaigns and in return they wanted more local/state jobs, even higher wages and ridiculous worker protections. We had a couple RE/Dot.com bubbles that gave us a false sense of security believing that we could just continue to keep doing these things. Of course, it was unsustainable. Once the bubble burst, there wasn't the tax revenues nor the funding through the bond markets to keep up all these jobs, hence the massive state/local government layoffs throughout the 2008-2012 time period.

 

Similar thing occurred in Greece. There was never any problem with foreign creditors buying up their crappy bonds chasing after those high yields. One thing that the world wide downturn did achieve is that it forced these creditors/investors to examine their finances a little more closely. After a while, with crashing revenues and a horrid fiscal picture, everyone bailed. It's not that Greece in itself is the risk, its who is the next shoe to drop? That's the risk.

 

Of course, Greece is in quite the dilemma. They are being told by those mean old Germans who are primarily the ones who have been bailing them and other irresponsible southern European countries out, how to run their finances. How many government jobs they have to ax, the pensions they promised have to be reduced and what the newer higher accepted tax rates will look like.

 

People are ignorant, pretty much everywhere. Yes, they elected these fools that made these decisions. But many of these people now have to go through a very painful down sizing process. So I feel bad for many of these folks. Unfortunately, it is a necessary evil. The only way they will get through this are with draconian measures. This is what happened a couple years ago, and of course the Greek people were upset that the Germans were dictating their lives, hence the new uber left wing party came into power, promising to stand up against the Meanies from the North.

 

Well, they got what they wanted.

As an economic program, austerity, under recession, makes no sense. It just makes the situation worse. So the Greek debt, relative to GDP, has actually gone up during the period ofwhich the policies that are supposed to overcome the debt. Blame Greek socialism all you want, but the only practical way out now is debt forgiveness. Then you can implement controls Edited July 2, 2015 by JTSP

[keepthefaith]

As an economic program, austerity, under recession, makes no sense. It just makes the situation worse. So the Greek debt, relative to GDP, has actually gone up during the period ofwhich the policies that are supposed to overcome the debt. Blame Greek socialism all you want, but the only practical way out now is debt forgiveness. Then you can implement controls

and who shall forgive US debt when the **** hits the fan here and what impact will that have on those creditors? Scary.

[....lybob]

and who shall forgive US debt when the **** hits the fan here and what impact will that have on those creditors? Scary.

US debt is payable in US dollars, it is impossible for us to run out of dollars to pay our debt, we can devalue the dollar but not run out of them.

[truth on hold]

US debt is payable in US dollars, it is impossible for us to run out of dollars to pay our debt, we can devalue the dollar but not run out of them.

Whats baked in the cake at some point is a war. US will be faced with severe devaluation if its creditors demand payment. Rather than face the internal crisis they'll make up some excuse to attack the main creditors. Like nazi Germany did, that was more about breaking the WW1 reparation treaties than anything else. Edited July 3, 2015 by JTSP

[GG]

Whats baked in the cake at some point is a war. US will be faced with severe devaluation if its creditors demand payment. Rather than face the internal crisis they'll make up some excuse to attack the main creditors. Like nazi Germany did, that was more about breaking the WW1 reparation treaties than anything else.

 

Czechoslovakia, Poland & USSR were Germany's main creditors?

[DC Tom]

Whats baked in the cake at some point is a war. US will be faced with severe devaluation if its creditors demand payment. Rather than face the internal crisis they'll make up some excuse to attack the main creditors. Like nazi Germany did, that was more about breaking the WW1 reparation treaties than anything else.

 

Reparations were suspended at Lausanne in 1932, you idiot.

[/dev/null]

US debt is payable in US dollars, it is impossible for us to run out of dollars to pay our debt, we can devalue the dollar but not run out of them.

Which is the inevitable outcome

 

First our creditors will stop buying our debt

Then the stock market will crash

Then the deflation hits

 

Then the Fed prints up a $5Trillion note with Ben Bernanke's face on it and asks China if it has change for a $5

 

*Edit: Replace Bernanke with Janet Yellen. I forgot money is supposed to have a woman on it now

Edited July 3, 2015 by /dev/null

[Azalin]

 

I forgot money is supposed to have a woman on it now

 

It may as well - that's what I spend most of my money on.

[truth on hold]

Puerto Rico says it cannot pay on its $73 billion debt much longer.

 

Despair and Anger as Puerto Ricans Cope With Debt Crisis http://nyti.ms/1LN5HKY

Edited July 3, 2015 by JTSP

[boyst]

Puerto Rico says it cannot pay on its $73 billion debt much longer.

Despair and Anger as Puerto Ricans Cope With Debt Crisis http://nyti.ms/1LN5HKY

god, I am so glad to live in America where we don't have these problems. Like our government and elected officials or not, at least right now - at least we are not going thru this!!!!