C.Biscuit97 Posted June 18, 2015 Posted June 18, 2015 This might be the last push I need into offseason rehab. There is an article on Josh McCown being the one who got away during mini-camps. The practice before the practice. What is wrong with us? Are we just junkies at this point? Josh Freakin' McCown.
YoloinOhio Posted June 18, 2015 Author Posted June 18, 2015 This might be the last push I need into offseason rehab. There is an article on Josh McCown being the one who got away during mini-camps. The practice before the practice. What is wrong with us? Are we just junkies at this point? Josh Freakin' McCown. offseason rehab! Checking myself in too.
GG Posted June 18, 2015 Posted June 18, 2015 Edited to add trade details: The Bills gave up a 4th round pick (137) and a 2016 seventh round pick for Cassel and a 5th (188). That's not much for any player - particularly not a QB. Check the details - Bills gave up 2015 5th round (Tampa's pick) and 2016 7th round, and received Cassel + Vikings 2015 6th round.
C.Biscuit97 Posted June 18, 2015 Posted June 18, 2015 I think you're wearing Bills goggles on this one. They definitely wanted to sign him but lost out. At this stage of his career, Cassel is clearly an inferior player (not that McCown is great). The Bills know this (as does every team in the league), but obviously aren't going to say this publicly. I think you're splitting hairs here. McCown had the most recent success (8 games) but was pretty terrible for most of his career. Cassel has had 2 pretty solid seasons and has been bad for most of his career. They are roughly the same good backup, bottom of the barrel starter. McCown was easier to acquire. I believe the hope was that EJ (and it turns out later when we got Taylor) to hopefully win the job. If they didn't, McCown or Cassel are both the same unexciting fallback plans.
dave mcbride Posted June 18, 2015 Posted June 18, 2015 I think you're splitting hairs here. McCown had the most recent success (8 games) but was pretty terrible for most of his career. Cassel has had 2 pretty solid seasons and has been bad for most of his career. They are roughly the same good backup, bottom of the barrel starter. McCown was easier to acquire. I believe the hope was that EJ (and it turns out later when we got Taylor) to hopefully win the job. If they didn't, McCown or Cassel are both the same unexciting fallback plans. I agree, sort of - McCown certainly isn't great. But he's one year removed from playing in a good offensive system with playmakers similar to the Bills' own, and he was pretty spectacular in 8 games for the Bears. He was bad last year, but the team he played on was horrible too. Cassel hasn't been above average in nearly half a decade. Plus he broke his foot last year. They are both fallbacks, but one is better than the other. The Bills' playoff chances rest on these marginal differences.
YoloinOhio Posted June 18, 2015 Author Posted June 18, 2015 Aaron Kromer had McCown in Chicago when he had that good stretch, so he likely had a comfort level with what he can and can't do. I am guessing that helped put him at the top of their list as a vet. That said, the Bills never seemed to want to hand him the starting job (and for good reason considering he was a train wreck last year) and Cleveland seemed to want to present it to him on a silver platter. So, there was a difference in perception. The Bills weren't willing to get into a bidding war for a guy like that with limited upside and age 35.
dave mcbride Posted June 18, 2015 Posted June 18, 2015 Ridiculous? It's far from ridiculous. The Bills were looking for a veteran QB to possibly start but who would most certainly be competing for the job. Expected starter? Why didn't the Bills name Cassel the starter when he was traded? You don't think it's at all possible that they thought of Cassel as a slightly better player but weren't willing to give up a pick for him at first? Maybe the Vikings wanted a 4th or a 5th round pick when the first call was made to inquire. At this point in there respective careers, McCown has had 1 good season(really it was a half season), Cassel has had 2 full seasons. I wouldn't say Cassel is clearly the inferior player. I disagree with this. Cassel hasn't been good in forever - nearly half a decade - and he's coming off of a broken foot. McCown ain't great, but he has played some very good football less than two calendar years ago.
YoloinOhio Posted June 18, 2015 Author Posted June 18, 2015 Robinson interview from last night. John Murphy @JohnMurphyShow 15m15 minutes ago Complete audio: Charles Robinson: "The best defense in the league" http://ow.ly/30bAXc
dave mcbride Posted June 18, 2015 Posted June 18, 2015 Aaron Kromer had McCown in Chicago when he had that good stretch, so he likely had a comfort level with what he can and can't do. I am guessing that helped put him at the top of their list as a vet. That said, the Bills never seemed to want to hand him the starting job (and for good reason considering he was a train wreck last year) and Cleveland seemed to want to present it to him on a silver platter. So, there was a difference in perception. The Bills weren't willing to get into a bidding war for a guy like that with limited upside and age 35. Good take. This makes sense.
Hapless Bills Fan Posted June 18, 2015 Posted June 18, 2015 Bills tried and failed to get Josh, so we moved on and so should the reporter. This I disagree with this. Cassel hasn't been good in forever - nearly half a decade - and he's coming off of a broken foot. McCown ain't great, but he has played some very good football less than two calendar years ago. And some very bad football 1 calendar year ago
dave mcbride Posted June 18, 2015 Posted June 18, 2015 I think you're splitting hairs here. McCown had the most recent success (8 games) but was pretty terrible for most of his career. Cassel has had 2 pretty solid seasons and has been bad for most of his career. They are roughly the same good backup, bottom of the barrel starter. McCown was easier to acquire. I believe the hope was that EJ (and it turns out later when we got Taylor) to hopefully win the job. If they didn't, McCown or Cassel are both the same unexciting fallback plans. PS - I don't think Taylor is a credible threat to be the starter regardless of what Rex is saying. EJ is the one with the chance to grab the job, but at the end of the day I think the odds are slightly better for Cassel. Just my opinion, and I'm hardly certain about any of this.
BarleyNY Posted June 18, 2015 Posted June 18, 2015 Check the details - Bills gave up 2015 5th round (Tampa's pick) and 2016 7th round, and received Cassel + Vikings 2015 6th round. Oops. The picks were numbered correctly, but I put down the wrong rounds. Fixed now.
Hapless Bills Fan Posted June 18, 2015 Posted June 18, 2015 Aaron Kromer had McCown in Chicago when he had that good stretch, so he likely had a comfort level with what he can and can't do. I am guessing that helped put him at the top of their list as a vet. That said, the Bills never seemed to want to hand him the starting job (and for good reason considering he was a train wreck last year) and Cleveland seemed to want to present it to him on a silver platter. So, there was a difference in perception. The Bills weren't willing to get into a bidding war for a guy like that with limited upside and age 35. Good take
dave mcbride Posted June 18, 2015 Posted June 18, 2015 This And some very bad football 1 calendar year ago No doubt, but it was a train wreck of a team. From what I've read in multiple places, McCown is regarded as better than Cassel, who -- again -- broke his foot last year. That's not an insignificant injury.
Kelly the Dog Posted June 18, 2015 Posted June 18, 2015 Completely ridiculous. The Bills gave up almost nothing in the way of draft compensation for Cassel. For the team's, you know, expected starting QB. If the front office preferred Cassel and wavered and went after a lesser QB due to a late round draft pick they need fired. Today. Edited to add trade details: The Bills gave up a 5th round pick (137) and a 2016 seventh round pick for Cassel and a 6th (188). That's not much for any player - particularly not a QB. When you are already missing two picks from the draft including a first it is not nothing. Also, the team changed a little. When we were after McCown that was just before the McCoy trade, we didn't have Harvin and we didn't know for sure we would have Clay. While both of these guys are veterans and basically game managers it's entirely possible that Cassell fits better into their thinking than McCown does. McCown made a lot of dumb passes and mistakes last year with the Bucs. It's very possible that the Bills think Cassell is a smarter guy and would make fewer mistakes. I don't know either way if all things were equal which one the Bills would have preferred. They actually said they didn't know Cassell was available before (of course he was if you gave the Vikes enough for him but I imagine it means for a #5 or so). They may prefer McCown but without knowing the inner conversations just because they went after McCown as a FA before trading for Cassell doesn't mean they like McCown better. And in fact, they didn't want to pay McCown 5m a year, but they traded for Cassell who makes just over 5m a year. I disagree with this. Cassel hasn't been good in forever - nearly half a decade - and he's coming off of a broken foot. McCown ain't great, but he has played some very good football less than two calendar years ago. Cassell beat out Bridgewater in training camp last year. While he is a vet and he probably should, he obviously was not terrible in training camp last year or they would have started the #1 pick who obviously looked pretty good.
Buftex Posted June 18, 2015 Posted June 18, 2015 McCown may or may not be marginally better than Cassel...but even had he signed in Buffalo, neither guy would be the long term answer...and I am not sure either is a huge upgrade over Orton. We need EJ or Tyrod Taylor to step up, or we are simply marking time for another year, at QB.
BuffaloMatt Posted June 18, 2015 Posted June 18, 2015 This might be the last push I need into offseason rehab. There is an article on Josh McCown being the one who got away during mini-camps. The practice before the practice. What is wrong with us? Are we just junkies at this point? Josh Freakin' McCown. Robinson interview from last night. John Murphy @JohnMurphyShow 15m15 minutes ago Complete audio: Charles Robinson: "The best defense in the league" http://ow.ly/30bAXc I ain't going to rehab! No! No! No!
dave mcbride Posted June 18, 2015 Posted June 18, 2015 When you are already missing two picks from the draft including a first it is not nothing. Also, the team changed a little. When we were after McCown that was just before the McCoy trade, we didn't have Harvin and we didn't know for sure we would have Clay. While both of these guys are veterans and basically game managers it's entirely possible that Cassell fits better into their thinking than McCown does. McCown made a lot of dumb passes and mistakes last year with the Bucs. It's very possible that the Bills think Cassell is a smarter guy and would make fewer mistakes. I don't know either way if all things were equal which one the Bills would have preferred. They actually said they didn't know Cassell was available before (of course he was if you gave the Vikes enough for him but I imagine it means for a #5 or so). They may prefer McCown but without knowing the inner conversations just because they went after McCown as a FA before trading for Cassell doesn't mean they like McCown better. And in fact, they didn't want to pay McCown 5m a year, but they traded for Cassell who makes just over 5m a year. Cassell beat out Bridgewater in training camp last year. While he is a vet and he probably should, he obviously was not terrible in training camp last year or they would have started the #1 pick who obviously looked pretty good. Cassel sucks, Dog- he sucks. Avoid homerism!
Kelly the Dog Posted June 18, 2015 Posted June 18, 2015 Cassel sucks, Dog- he sucks. Avoid homerism! I think he is very, very average. I think McCown sucks.
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