birdog1960 Posted June 19, 2015 Posted June 19, 2015 Its not appropriate if......wait for it......it isn't likely. Concepts, or relationships in this instance, typically aren't likely when you pull them out of your a@#. When you suggest that this little monster was enabled by a confederate flag you have gone totally off the reservation. Nothing in the fact set suggests that the flag was a factor. Therefore, there is absolutely no reason to think that there is even the loosest of connection between what transpired in that Church and what flag is waving in the capitol, let alone actually enabled which suggests a significant influence. I believe that meets the criteria of completely unlikely. I believe you can just as easily argue that the bills 15 year playoff drought was an enabling factor given the absence of anything backing that theory. Even the most superficial analysis of your premise reveals it to be total BS backed with nothing but your own liberal and convenient use of the word "likely". Deja vu. so you are arguning that racism is innate. it's not a question or nurture but nature. it's genetically predisposed... bs... highly unlikely. in fact, absolutely untrue.
FireChan Posted June 19, 2015 Posted June 19, 2015 The thing I don't get is, we can't talk guns... because guns aren't the problem, government overreach etc etc. But when we talk healthcare, and getting everyone access to quality healthcare, which includes comprehensive mental healthcare, that's also government overreach. So how do we come to a solution that "free market/small government" people support? Or is mass murder just part of "freedom"? No government overreach. There isn't a contradicition present here.
DC Tom Posted June 19, 2015 Posted June 19, 2015 so you are arguning that racism is innate. it's not a question or nurture but nature. it's genetically predisposed... bs... highly unlikely. in fact, absolutely untrue. Your post clashes very strongly with your signature.
Jauronimo Posted June 19, 2015 Posted June 19, 2015 so you are arguning that racism is innate. it's not a question or nurture but nature. it's genetically predisposed... bs... highly unlikely. in fact, absolutely untrue. No, I haven't suggested any such thing. But apparently you're arguing that a confederate flag in South Carolina is the root of all racism or at the very least, the enabler. A piss poor attempt even by your standards.
boyst Posted June 19, 2015 Posted June 19, 2015 at don't realize that a significant percentage of the populaceit say to many impressionables that it's ok to be racist? he grew up in a culture where racism is common and often not condemned. i doubt he woke up one morning and decided it was time to become a racist and go to a church symbolic for it's stand on civil rights and murder innocent people. the culture is very likely a factor in the event.this boils down to the age old debate. Is it more offensive that 1% is offended by something or that 1% is not offended?At some point, regardless of how many people find it offensive a line has to be drawn. Yes, there is hate in that symbol. There is heritage, too. The same can be said about the crucifix, the swastika, or even the Bills logo (offensive to Indians who hunted the animal before whitey took over). likely is the appropriate word. it is not clearly or obviously.I messed up my quote reply to yours. Stupid cell
Pine Barrens Mafia Posted June 19, 2015 Posted June 19, 2015 at don't realize that a significant percentage of the populaceit say to many impressionables that it's ok to be racist? he grew up in a culture where racism is common and often not condemned. i doubt he woke up one morning and decided it was time to become a racist and go to a church symbolic for it's stand on civil rights and murder innocent people. the culture is very likely a factor in the event. this boils down to the age old debate. Is it more offensive that 1% is offended by something or that 1% is not offended?At some point, regardless of how many people find it offensive a line has to be drawn. Yes, there is hate in that symbol. There is heritage, too. The same can be said about the crucifix, the swastika, or even the Bills logo (offensive to Indians who hunted the animal before whitey took over). I messed up my quote reply to yours. Stupid cell How nuanced. I prefer just to believe that it's poor tasted to display a confederate flag. A sign of white trash status, so to speak.
birdog1960 Posted June 19, 2015 Posted June 19, 2015 No, I haven't suggested any such thing. But apparently you're arguing that a confederate flag in South Carolina is the root of all racism or at the very least, the enabler. A piss poor attempt even by your standards. i'm arguing that it is a likely contributor. it's a part of racist culture, a culture that nurtures it's dissemination and intergenerational inheritance...but you knew that.
boyst Posted June 19, 2015 Posted June 19, 2015 How nuanced. I prefer just to believe that it's poor tasted to display a confederate flag. A sign of white trash status, so to speak. I guess I am white trash. To each their own. I have a Confederate naval jack. I don't think everyone cares about what you think or others think. Some do, mostly you. But, the flag is not all about hate. Especially in the South and especially in this current politically charged atmosphere. I don't fly I flag. I don't even know where it is. But when I see the flag I don't think hate. I don't think white trash. I don't think anything. I simply don't care. The same way I don't care when I see a fish sticker for Jesus. Or a dude wearing his gang colors. I don't care. Why does everyone else? Oh wait, the flag makes guns kill people.
birdog1960 Posted June 19, 2015 Posted June 19, 2015 I guess I am white trash. To each their own. I have a Confederate naval jack. I don't think everyone cares about what you think or others think. Some do, mostly you. But, the flag is not all about hate. Especially in the South and especially in this current politically charged atmosphere. I don't fly I flag. I don't even know where it is. But when I see the flag I don't think hate. I don't think white trash. I don't think anything. I simply don't care. The same way I don't care when I see a fish sticker for Jesus. Or a dude wearing his gang colors. I don't care. Why does everyone else? Oh wait, the flag makes guns kill people. if you don't care, why did you bother to seek a flag out in the first place? if it's meaningless, then why have it?
Jauronimo Posted June 19, 2015 Posted June 19, 2015 i'm arguing that it is a likely contributor. it's a part of racist culture, a culture that nurtures it's dissemination and intergenerational inheritance...but you knew that. There's that word again. You were arguing that a confederate flag was a likely enabler in a specific hate crime. Now a confederate flag is a likely "contributor" of general racism. See the subtle difference?
boyst Posted June 19, 2015 Posted June 19, 2015 i'm arguing that it is a likely contributor. it's a part of racist culture, a culture that nurtures it's dissemination and intergenerational inheritance...but you knew that.when you bring up inheritance it makes me think of one thing. My grandpa and his generation were ignorantly racist. Yes, maybe an oxymoron but they used the n word and were racist without even truly being racist. They were just a holes.So that whole generation isn't raising racists, are they? There is more tolerance today then ever before. And that's because we communicate, as we are now, and take time to consider each others thoughts and considerations. In cases like this its hard to fathom that someone is going to hold material posessions responsible. Its not what is shown or displayed. Its what is said and done. This flag nor this gun shot anyone. This maniac did. if you don't care, why did you bother to seek a flag out in the first place? if it's meaningless, then why have it?it is meaningless to me why others display it. I'll ask from time to time but it is none of my business. I had the flag up in my room in Ohio. Friends who saw it hated it and thought I was some KKK kid or something until I said I am just proud of my southern roots and the movement for individual expression that the flag stood for when it was raised. The states rights, etc. When attacked about slavery also being a part of the flag I remind them it was also a part of the US flag and regardless of the design of the flag it is in the seams of our history regardless. The US flag has just as much hate and blood on it as the Rebel
Deranged Rhino Posted June 19, 2015 Posted June 19, 2015 (edited) NRA Board member blames Pastor for Charleston deaths: A board member for the National Rifle Association blamed the gun-control position of South Carolina state Sen. Clementa Pinckney, a pastor who was killed in Wednesday night’s shooting at a historic black church in Charleston, for the deaths of his congregation. If had voted to allow gun owners to carry their own weapons, Charles Cotton wrote, “eight of his church members who might be alive if he had expressly allowed members to carry handguns in church are dead,” Cotton responded to the post on Thursday afternoon. “Innocent people died because of his position on a political issue.” The bill that Pinckney voted against in 2011 would have permitted gun owners to bring guns into public places like churches and daycare centers. It ultimately failed. http://www.politico.com/story/2015/06/nra-board-member-blames-clementa-pinckney-charleston-shooting-119202.html?cmpid=sf Edited June 19, 2015 by GreggyT
DC Tom Posted June 19, 2015 Posted June 19, 2015 NRA Board member blames Pastor for Charleston deaths: http://www.politico.com/story/2015/06/nra-board-member-blames-clementa-pinckney-charleston-shooting-119202.html?cmpid=sf Wow. Not every day the NRA out-gatormans gatorman.
Dorkington Posted June 19, 2015 Posted June 19, 2015 It's the victim's fault for not being armed. That's the America we live in? Depressing.
Deranged Rhino Posted June 19, 2015 Posted June 19, 2015 It's the victim's fault for not being armed. That's the America we live in? Depressing. "The only way to stop a bad guy with a gun, is a good guy with a gun." Wayne LaPierre days after the Sandy Hook massacre.
DC Tom Posted June 19, 2015 Posted June 19, 2015 It's the victim's fault for not being armed. That's the America we live in? Depressing. No, that's the America the NRA lives in, apparently. It's sadly amusing how the NRA doesn't see how idiotic statements like this hurt them. "The only way to stop a bad guy with a gun, is a good guy with a gun." Wayne LaPierre days after the Sandy Hook massacre. Or a car, or a hand grenade, or a baseball bat under certain circumstances...
LB3 Posted June 19, 2015 Posted June 19, 2015 It's the victim's fault for not being armed. That's the America we live in? Depressing. Nah. There are just some really stupid people that say really stupid things, and that's not unique to America.
birdog1960 Posted June 19, 2015 Posted June 19, 2015 when you bring up inheritance it makes me think of one thing. My grandpa and his generation were ignorantly racist. Yes, maybe an oxymoron but they used the n word and were racist without even truly being racist. They were just a holes. So that whole generation isn't raising racists, are they? There is more tolerance today then ever before. And that's because we communicate, as we are now, and take time to consider each others thoughts and considerations. In cases like this its hard to fathom that someone is going to hold material posessions responsible. Its not what is shown or displayed. Its what is said and done. This flag nor this gun shot anyone. This maniac did. it is meaningless to me why others display it. I'll ask from time to time but it is none of my business. I had the flag up in my room in Ohio. Friends who saw it hated it and thought I was some KKK kid or something until I said I am just proud of my southern roots and the movement for individual expression that the flag stood for when it was raised. The states rights, etc. When attacked about slavery also being a part of the flag I remind them it was also a part of the US flag and regardless of the design of the flag it is in the seams of our history regardless. The US flag has just as much hate and blood on it as the Rebel i don't agree. neither does this writer: http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/post-partisan/wp/2015/06/18/charleston-racism-and-the-myth-of-tolerant-millennials/
boyst Posted June 19, 2015 Posted June 19, 2015 i don't agree. neither does this writer: http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/post-partisan/wp/2015/06/18/charleston-racism-and-the-myth-of-tolerant-millennials/1 author. The post. And you. Maybe a few more. But only a fool would say we are less tolerant. Anyway. Subject already stale. I hope the families of the victims can find peace and this kid gets help
DC Tom Posted June 19, 2015 Posted June 19, 2015 i don't agree. neither does this writer: http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/post-partisan/wp/2015/06/18/charleston-racism-and-the-myth-of-tolerant-millennials/ The day you express an opinion someone else didn't write for you, it'll be a first.
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