Church Shooting

[boyst]

ya'll seen those pictures of dylann roof being arrested on one side and black dudes on other other being beat up by cops?

 

 

 

click below for a giggle.

 

img=http://i.imgur.com/5JWBTVj.jpg

 

 

Edited June 21, 2015 by jboyst62

[unbillievable]

ya'll seen those pictures of dylann roof being arrested on one side and black dudes on other other being beat up by cops?

 

 

Guess which one watched Chris' Rocks' guide to not getting whooped by the cops?

[boyst]

 

 

Guess which one watched Chris' Rocks' guide to not getting whooped by the cops?

 

this one?

[Azalin]

 

The lack of historical understanding in this post is ASTOUNDING.

 

But is it surprising?

[DC Tom]

I think something like 90% of all arms and munitions came from France to supply the Continental Army.

 

Shhh... It makes for good stories for Alaskan Dimwits that the framers grabbed their guns!

 

http://www.cracked.com/article_20306_5-myths-about-revolutionary-war-everyone-believes.html

 

"In the centuries since the Revolutionary War, French contributions have been criminally downplayed. Somewhere between the real Yorktown and Mel Gibson's rather less accurate version, The Patriot,

 

Referencing The Patriot as a version of Yorktown is as stupid as referencing a comedy site as a source on history. (Particularly since The Patriot was based on Guilford's Courthouse.)

 

But at least you're not as historically ignorant as JTSP. So you got that goin' for you, which is nice...

[boyst]

 

Referencing The Patriot as a version of Yorktown is as stupid as referencing a comedy site as a source on history. (Particularly since The Patriot was based on Guilford's Courthouse.)

 

But at least you're not as historically ignorant as JTSP. So you got that goin' for you, which is nice...

Guilford Courthouse?

... Cornwallis.

... Abbots Creek.

...Gold.

My Land.

 

http://hauntedstories.net/myths-legends/north-carolina/ghosts-abbotts-creek

http://www.examiner.com/article/abbott-s-creek-treasure-and-haunting

 

This is on the land that I own where the bridge was done. Historians have set out to find where he would have camped, which is actually not fully on Abbotts, but just off of it by 1/4 mile in a bottom that has been void of trees for centuries. It was the old creek bed some 1,000 years ago when I talked to the the soil and water guys who came by to help me work on planting grasses there. Anyway, people have found musket balls and other artifacts where this area was - back back 50-60 years ago. My grandpa let some people look but then kicked them off for making too big of a mess.

 

Anyway, yeah, thought about PM'ing you that but others may enjoy this, too. EII probably will. I took this picture for my nephew.

[Deranged Rhino]

 

But is it surprising?

 

Good point.

Guilford Courthouse?

... Cornwallis.

... Abbots Creek.

...Gold.

My Land.

 

http://hauntedstories.net/myths-legends/north-carolina/ghosts-abbotts-creek

http://www.examiner.com/article/abbott-s-creek-treasure-and-haunting

 

This is on the land that I own where the bridge was done. Historians have set out to find where he would have camped, which is actually not fully on Abbotts, but just off of it by 1/4 mile in a bottom that has been void of trees for centuries. It was the old creek bed some 1,000 years ago when I talked to the the soil and water guys who came by to help me work on planting grasses there. Anyway, people have found musket balls and other artifacts where this area was - back back 50-60 years ago. My grandpa let some people look but then kicked them off for making too big of a mess.

 

Anyway, yeah, thought about PM'ing you that but others may enjoy this, too. EII probably will. I took this picture for my nephew.

 

That's really cool. Thanks for sharing.

[truth on hold]

 

Referencing The Patriot as a version of Yorktown is as stupid as referencing a comedy site as a source on history. (Particularly since The Patriot was based on Guilford's Courthouse.)

 

But at least you're not as historically ignorant as JTSP. So you got that goin' for you, which is nice...

Sources for wikileaks article on French assistance for US war of Independence

1. David Hackett Fischer (2005). Liberty and Freedom: A Visual History of America's Founding Ideas. Oxford UP. pp. 185–88.
2. Stacy Schiff (2006). A Great Improvisation: Franklin, France, and the Birth of America. Macmillan. p. 5.
3. Hoffman, Ronald, and Peter J. Albert, eds. Diplomacy and Revolution: The Franco-American Alliance of 1778 (United States Capitol Historical Society, 1981)
4. "Journal of the American Revolution, The Gunpowder shortage (September 9, 2013).[1]
5. Lloyd S. Kramer, "America's Lafayette and Lafayette's America: A European and the American Revolution," William & Mary Quarterly (1981) 38#2 pp 228-241.in JSTOR
6. Georges Édouard Lemaître (2005). Beaumarchais. Kessinger Publishing. p. 229.
7. Thomas G. Paterson et al. (2009). American Foreign Relations, Volume 1: A History to 1920. Cengage Learning. pp. 13–15.
8. Henry Lumpkin (2000). From Savannah to Yorktown: The American Revolution in the South. iUniverse. p. 235.
9. Richard B. Morris, The Peacemakers: The Great Powers and American Independence (1975)
10. Peter S. Onuf (1991). Establishing the New Regime: The Washington Administration. Taylor & Francis. pp. 30–31.
11. Library of Congress (2002). The Impact of the American Revolution Abroad. The Minerva Group, Inc. pp. 21–23.
12. Stacy Schiff (2006). A Great Improvisation: Franklin, France, and the Birth of America. Macmillan. p. 5.
13. Jonathan R. Dull, The French Navy and American Independence: A Study of Arms and Diplomacy, 1774-1787 (1975)

[Alaska Darin]

French farmers ?

 

During the American Revolutionary War (American War of Independence; 17751783), France recognized and allied itself with the United States in 1778, declared war on Great Britain, and sent its armies and navy to fight Britain while providing money and matériel to arm the new republic. French intervention made a decisive contribution to the U.S. victory in the war. Motivated by revenge for its losses in the Seven Years' War, France began secretly sending supplies in 1775. Spain and the Netherlands joined France, making it a global war in which the British had no major allies.

 

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/France_in_the_American_Revolutionary_War

 

But more importantly your grossly inaccurate comment speaks to a major error in thinking that supports the current madness; that is that privately armed citizens can resist the government. If people have pistols, the government has tanks. If people get tanks, the government has atomic weapons. There's no way to deal with the threat of government (real or imagined) by violent force, even if you think that that's morally legitimate.

 

Guns in the hands of American citizens are not going to make the country more benign. They're going to make it more brutal, ruthless and destructive...which pretty much characterizes our situation versus most of the advanced wold

You know it's actually funny to watch people grossly and hypocritically attempt to ignore history to suit their needs. But thanks the obfuscation via the wiki link to France's contribution to American independence, as if that's relevant to the discussion.

 

The only thing that makes this thread better is Eric using a link from !@#$ing "Cracked" and calling someone else a dimwit. Utter perfection.

 

If you aren't in the drug trade in America, your chances of being involved in an incident with a firearm in America are roughly on par with those of other developed nations. But let's keep using the aberrations in society to create new, unnecessary rules. No harm could possibly come of that.

[FireChan]

Guilford Courthouse?

... Cornwallis.

... Abbots Creek.

...Gold.

My Land.

 

http://hauntedstories.net/myths-legends/north-carolina/ghosts-abbotts-creek

http://www.examiner.com/article/abbott-s-creek-treasure-and-haunting

 

This is on the land that I own where the bridge was done. Historians have set out to find where he would have camped, which is actually not fully on Abbotts, but just off of it by 1/4 mile in a bottom that has been void of trees for centuries. It was the old creek bed some 1,000 years ago when I talked to the the soil and water guys who came by to help me work on planting grasses there. Anyway, people have found musket balls and other artifacts where this area was - back back 50-60 years ago. My grandpa let some people look but then kicked them off for making too big of a mess.

 

Anyway, yeah, thought about PM'ing you that but others may enjoy this, too. EII probably will. I took this picture for my nephew.

Where's the Spanish Mission?

[FireChan]

 

One correction to my post. I'm not sure why I used North Carolina, as this heinous act took place in South Carolina. SC does not have open carry. But they have a very lax concealed carry law, where apparently no gun training is required.

 

http://www.usacarry.com/south_carolina_concealed_carry_permit_information.html

 

They require a NICS background check, which is, a very quick and minimal thing. Were parishioners able to legally carry firearms into that church, there is just no telling what their abilities or competence might be.

Honestly, I haven't heard many stories about "untrained" civilians accidentally wounding or killing other civilians. You'd think with the media these days, stories like that would get a lot of play. Instead, the stories we don't hear about are ones like this: http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/local/breaking/ct-uber-driver-shoots-gunman-met-0420-20150419-story.html

 

You say some of the laws are lax, and I can appreciate that point. However, with the status of illegal firearms in this country, it doesn't much matter. Lax, nonexistent, or completely banned, guns are going to be acquired by people who want them. People who can't acquire guns (which would be a very small number) will kill folks with homemade pipebombs, or their cars, or anything else that is just as deadly. I'd take my chances that law-abiding citizens with some firearms will do more good than harm in the long run.

 

Having a "conversation" doesn't work, and wishing for peace doesn't either. It's a problem with no real solution. All you can do is hope that these acts are stopped in their tracks by law enforcement or citizens just as they start. Like many others have iterated, guns aren't the root cause, people are.

[birdog1960]

You know it's actually funny to watch people grossly and hypocritically attempt to ignore history to suit their needs. But thanks the obfuscation via the wiki link to France's contribution to American independence, as if that's relevant to the discussion.

 

The only thing that makes this thread better is Eric using a link from !@#$ing "Cracked" and calling someone else a dimwit. Utter perfection.

 

If you aren't in the drug trade in America, your chances of being involved in an incident with a firearm in America are roughly on par with those of other developed nations. But let's keep using the aberrations in society to create new, unnecessary rules. No harm could possibly come of that.

the obfuscation is in pretending that this incident had little to do with racism or gun laws.

[Dorkington]

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/wonkblog/wp/2015/06/19/guns-in-america-for-every-criminal-killed-in-self-defense-34-innocent-people-die/

 

[keepthefaith]

We constantly hear politicians, citizens and posters on this board call for gun control, yet almost never do any of these people suggest any specific changes. I think that most of them simply believe that only the military and law enforcement should be able to have them but they are afraid to actually say that.

[B-Man]

"First of all, I would like to thank the city of Charleston, how they have come together and shown unity and love."

"He would be so overwhelmed with how everyone has been unified to act on one accord," said Daniel Simmons Jr., the son of Daniel Simmons Sr., one of the victims in the massacre, when he was asked on "Meet the Press," by Chuck Todd:

 

"What would [your father] say how the community should respond to this horrific attack? What would he be telling you? What do you think he would say to you if he were here to sort of bring the community together?"

 

 

That is, Simmons resisted the question. He didn't criticize the city or implore it to change. He thanked the city. He praised the city for what it instinctively did.

The granddaughter, Alana Simmons, broke in without waiting for a question to be directed at her, and she continued with this love for Charleston:

 

My grandfather really loved Charleston. And one of our best memories of him was coming down two summers ago. And he took us on this grand tour of Charleston. And he just kept talking about how great the people of Charleston were. And we saw that. We saw that this week.

 

 

So it wasn't just that Charleston behaved well after the massacre. The family, including the dead patriarch, already loved Charleston. Chuck Todd — the outsider from the domain of media — seems to have planned to set this family up as a contrast to bad old Charleston. They were supposed to be the the woeful victims whose profound moral weight would force this ignominious city to confront its terrible racism. But the family had a different idea.

Todd tried to end the interview with stress on the grandeur of the Simmons family: "Well, your family is quite an example for all of us in this country. Reconciliation, forgiveness, love, faith. Unbelievable. My condolences..." But Alana Simmons felt moved to share the praise with the whole city of Charleston:

And Charleston has been a great example to the rest of the country as well. We just really, really appreciate how everyone has come together. And, like, people of all races, all religions, genders, orientations. At the prayer vigil we went to Friday night, everyone was there. And it was just so overwhelming and just so wonderful to see everyone coming together not to bash or to talk about the suspect but to celebrate the lives and to heal together.

 

 

Apparently, that wasn't the story line Todd wanted to end with. He just had to say:

Well, it's too bad that it took a tragedy like this to make that happen. But perhaps if this is what comes out of it, maybe we're a better society for it. Thank you, Simmons family.

 

 

What? Did he forget what Daniel and Alana said in the beginning? Charleston was already great. Daniel Simmons Sr. "just kept talking about how great the people of Charleston were," and he had no experience of what happened after the tragedy.

Todd — and mainstream media in general — seem to want to use the massacre as a device for arguing that changes must be made. But we could also do what the Simmons family seems to want us to do: Witness the goodness of truly good people. And see the power of religion at its finest:

 

 

 

 

.

Edited June 22, 2015 by B-Man

[Dorkington]

Personally I'm not big on guns. But that's just my own personal preferences. To solve the "issue" of gun violence, I think there are multiple things that need to be looked at.

 

Gun supply: Restricting current access to legal firearms isn't really going to do much to change things. It'd cut down on suicides by gun, but those people are probably going to commit suicide anyways. Legal firearms aren't generally used for crime, but they are in some cases, so it'd cut down on that.... the majority of crime, I suspect, is via illegal firearms, so we'd need to figure out a way to cut down supply in this country. Not really sure how to go about this. Is there a way to limit manufacture? Is that a slippery slope? Where do most illegally owned guns come from?

 

Culture: We have a semi violent culture, racism, gang violence, whatever. IMO, a lot of this can be helped with better/less debt filled education, better work opportunities, better social programs for people in need, better healthcare, and less of a "war on drugs" (legalizing marijuana, would go a long way), also getting rid of the for-profit prison system would put less pressure to incarcerate for relatively silly things. And then, on the prison side, we need to do a better job of rehabilitating vs simply punishing.

 

Basically a lot of things would have to change from a lot of different directions for there to be any real change. A lot of it would have to come in the form of "bigger government", which wouldn't go over well at all with a great many. So is it worth it? That's for the individual to decide.

[birdog1960]

We constantly hear politicians, citizens and posters on this board call for gun control, yet almost never do any of these people suggest any specific changes. I think that most of them simply believe that only the military and law enforcement should be able to have them but they are afraid to actually say that.

oh come on. there been multiple gun control bills from very simple to very complex put forth. all kinds of regulations proposed. but from the smallest to the largest, the gun lobby has opposed them all. they are unwilling to compromise the littlest bit.

 

i'd start with better background checks and a longer waiting period and close loopholes like gun shows.

[Azalin]

 

i'd start with better background checks and a longer waiting period and close loopholes like gun shows.

 

Wasn't there a case just last week where a woman was killed by her ex during the mandatory waiting period? In fact, her ex stabbed her to death with a knife. Had she been armed, she'd have had a better chance of surviving.

[keepthefaith]

oh come on. there been multiple gun control bills from very simple to very complex put forth. all kinds of regulations proposed. but from the smallest to the largest, the gun lobby has opposed them all. they are unwilling to compromise the littlest bit.

 

i'd start with better background checks and a longer waiting period and close loopholes like gun shows.

The cries for control outnumber the actual solutions suggested or put forth by a gazillion to one but you are right, there have been a couple bills. I think many would support greater background checks and even a longer waiting period and closing the gun show loophole. I doubt that would reduce crime or satisfy those that want tighter control, but there are probably ways to improve the process for one to own a gun. Where do you draw the line and how would someone like Roof be disqualified?

[Dorkington]

 

Wasn't there a case just last week where a woman was killed by her ex during the mandatory waiting period? In fact, her ex stabbed her to death with a knife. Had she been armed, she'd have had a better chance of surviving.

Exactly why regulations of gun ownership aren't the answer alone. Keeping the same culture in the US, but taking legal guns out of the equation does very little. Maybe saves a few families from accidents/murder-suicides.