GunnerBill Posted August 20, 2015 Posted August 20, 2015 He got 13m guaranteed. And it doesnt matter what his first two years were, he wasn't going to sign for anything much less than his market value, which was 6-47m. You could not have signed him to a 2 year contract. You would have had to give him something like what he got. At least 5-40 with 20 mil in first two years. Correct.
BADOLBILZ Posted August 21, 2015 Posted August 21, 2015 He got 13m guaranteed. And it doesnt matter what his first two years were, he wasn't going to sign for anything much less than his market value, which was 6-47m. You could not have signed him to a 2 year contract. You would have had to give him something like what he got. At least 5-40 with 20 mil in first two years. $10.5M signing bonus and $9M salary first two years. $9.75M per for 2 years if it didn't work out. Hence a two year contract. This was much discussed at the signing. Sometimes teams do things like that to fill a dire need. Like teams with the worst LG play in the NFL. Case in point.......Bills paying Chris Williams $7.5M to play guard for one season. Well maybe not a WHOLE season. A couple games. Apparently it's a case of mind over matter.......if you don't mind WHO they paid......it doesn't matter to you.
atlbillsfan1975 Posted August 21, 2015 Posted August 21, 2015 C'mon dude you know Levitre didn't get paid $50M. Levitre signing bonus in 2013.......$10.5M Eric Wood signing bonus in 2013.....$9M Bill from NYC has laid this out a million times. Can't even fathom why this is contract is still considered some major dodged-bullet. Levitre's contract was basically a 2 year gamble on a guy who at the time was considered one of the 2-3 best players at his position in the league. Add in Chris Williams signing bonus in 2014.......$5.5M I mean........you guys are just wrong. Who the heck considered Levitre one of the 2-3 best guards ?! You his agent and himself?! HaLevitre's greatest asset was his ability to stay healthy, versatility, and Chan as his OC. He was not a great guard by any stretch of the imagination. He was average to slightly above average.
NoSaint Posted August 21, 2015 Posted August 21, 2015 Who the heck considered Levitre one of the 2-3 best guards ?! You his agent and himself?! Ha Levitre's greatest asset was his ability to stay healthy, versatility, and Chan as his OC. He was not a great guard by any stretch of the imagination. He was average to slightly above average. He was considered by most here to be a guy on the edge of the pro bowl and possible he could cross that threshold soon.
boyst Posted August 21, 2015 Posted August 21, 2015 He was considered by most here to be a guy on the edge of the pro bowl and possible he could cross that threshold soon. and here, in chan's system he was. he was mobile, agile and could move his hips.
BADOLBILZ Posted August 21, 2015 Posted August 21, 2015 Who the heck considered Levitre one of the 2-3 best guards ?! You his agent and himself?! Ha Levitre's greatest asset was his ability to stay healthy, versatility, and Chan as his OC. He was not a great guard by any stretch of the imagination. He was average to slightly above average. Average? He was considered one of the very best left guards in football. Whether YOU agree is immaterial but denying it is just showing your ignorance on the subject. He got the contract because he was very highly regarded around the league and additionally independent advanced statistical services graded him very highly.
BADOLBILZ Posted August 21, 2015 Posted August 21, 2015 and here, in chan's system he was. he was mobile, agile and could move his hips. His inability to replicate his Buffalo performance in TN has been due to injuries......not the system. Did the Bills know his knee was a potential problem? We'll never know but why would ANYONE assume anything like that when they knew about Chris Williams CHRONIC back problems and they signed him....one of the lowest rated guards in the entire NFL. And his back flared up and he missed nearly the entire season. Hence my point about fans attempting to pick a piece of corn out of the pile of sh*t that was the Bills handling of the LG situation. For some reason there is still a question in some fans minds about the organizations lack of commitment to winning during the Littman era. Is it not clear? They were being run to earn a true $30-$40M profit every year and coming up $20M short of the cap year after year was the easiest way to do that.
QuoteTheRaven83 Posted August 21, 2015 Posted August 21, 2015 I remember when we let him go, almost everyone here was b*tching and moaning about how we dont pay our players. Thank god we let Byrd and Levitre go
billsfan89 Posted August 21, 2015 Posted August 21, 2015 (edited) So anyone want to own up to blasting Whaley for not retaining him? I think once people saw the price tag they were OK with Whaley not retaining him. The real criticism was they never brought in a proper replacement for him. Seems like they let him go and just never bothered to sign anyone at a critical position. Edited August 21, 2015 by billsfan89
Kelly the Dog Posted August 21, 2015 Posted August 21, 2015 $10.5M signing bonus and $9M salary first two years. $9.75M per for 2 years if it didn't work out. Hence a two year contract. This was much discussed at the signing. Sometimes teams do things like that to fill a dire need. Like teams with the worst LG play in the NFL. Case in point.......Bills paying Chris Williams $7.5M to play guard for one season. Well maybe not a WHOLE season. A couple games. Apparently it's a case of mind over matter.......if you don't mind WHO they paid......it doesn't matter to you. So you want a two year contract for a guy who played poorly? That's the only way you get rid of him after two years, which the Titans should have done. If he plays okay you have to pay him 40m for being pretty decent. It's too much to pay for him. The bigger mistake is not replacing him with anyone good.
QCity Posted August 21, 2015 Posted August 21, 2015 You really picked the wrong argument to play devil's advocate lol. Just walk away man, walk away
T master Posted August 21, 2015 Posted August 21, 2015 Looking back thats one of those PHEW moments !!
BADOLBILZ Posted August 21, 2015 Posted August 21, 2015 (edited) So you want a two year contract for a guy who played poorly? That's the only way you get rid of him after two years, which the Titans should have done. If he plays okay you have to pay him 40m for being pretty decent. It's too much to pay for him. The bigger mistake is not replacing him with anyone good. This comes down to a committed organization not risking losing games over having to overpay for a free agent you can't replace. For all the dogging people give Levitre, here are the facts: He's still never missed a start.....his durability isn't a "was" thing......and in 2013 when the Bills were being killed by statistically TERRIBLE LG play Levitre was performing at a statistically high level for the Titans. When you take a critical look at the situation.....how much did the Bills save to take that risk? Chris Williams, Colin Brown and Doug Legursky were all signed to replace Levitre and they barely got 18 bad games out of about $9.5M spent. Then they played most of last year with a rookie who was terrible and a vastly overpaid backup OG (Kraig Urbik). They saved about $7-$8M tops and got possibly the worst LG play in the league to show for it. Hardly some dodged bullet when you consider that the Bills have had lots of the kind of situations the Titans are reportedly in with Levitre now.....in some cases worse......and in just the past few seasons. Williams, Fitz, Stevie Johnson, Mark Anderson..........is anyone starting 30 page threads to point out how bad those deals were when those guys keep bouncing from team to team or out of the league? No. This thread is just a bunch of people who were trying to defend the team for making an illogical football move. Fortunately, I believe the willingness to let your team go from very high level performance at a position to terrible performance over money are likely over now. So you guys can start blasting Pegula for overspending anytime now. Crickets. Edited August 21, 2015 by #BADOL
BillsVet Posted August 21, 2015 Posted August 21, 2015 So you guys can start blasting Pegula for overspending anytime now. They're too busy complaining that Dareus is negotiating publicly and that he should accept what they're offering.
Webster Guy Posted August 21, 2015 Posted August 21, 2015 This comes down to a committed organization not risking losing games over having to overpay for a free agent you can't replace. For all the dogging people give Levitre, here are the facts: He's still never missed a start.....his durability isn't a "was" thing......and in 2013 when the Bills were being killed by statistically TERRIBLE LG play Levitre was performing at a statistically high level for the Titans. When you take a critical look at the situation.....how much did the Bills save to take that risk? Chris Williams, Colin Brown and Doug Legursky were all signed to replace Levitre and they barely got 18 bad games out of about $9.5M spent. Then they played most of last year with a rookie who was terrible and a vastly overpaid backup OG (Kraig Urbik). They saved about $7-$8M tops and got possibly the worst LG play in the league to show for it. Hardly some dodged bullet when you consider that the Bills have had lots of the kind of situations the Titans are reportedly in with Levitre now.....in some cases worse......and in just the past few seasons. Williams, Fitz, Stevie Johnson, Mark Anderson..........is anyone starting 30 page threads to point out how bad those deals were when those guys keep bouncing from team to team or out of the league? No. This thread is just a bunch of people who were trying to defend the team for making an illogical football move. Fortunately, I believe the willingness to let your team go from very high level performance at a position to terrible performance over money are likely over now. So you guys can start blasting Pegula for overspending anytime now. Crickets. On top of that it was the blindside protection of our rookie qb trying to learn the ropes. Poor EJ had about 1.9 seconds per dropback before they were breathing down his neck. Not a good thing to do to your 1st round qb who needs confidence and time to execute plays.
Bill from NYC Posted August 21, 2015 Posted August 21, 2015 (edited) His inability to replicate his Buffalo performance in TN has been due to injuries......not the system. Did the Bills know his knee was a potential problem? We'll never know but why would ANYONE assume anything like that when they knew about Chris Williams CHRONIC back problems and they signed him....one of the lowest rated guards in the entire NFL. I wholly agree. Were the Bills aware of his injury? Tough to tell but I doubt it. Did he lose his desire after being handed millions of dollars in bonus money? Nobody will ever know but I doubt that too, due to his durability in Buffalo. He never sat out a game. I understand how fans are happy that we "dodged this bullet." Why not feel good about things the Bills do when possible? That said, it was stupid of the Bills to let him walk. He, by most accounts, wanted to stay here. Instead we let him walk, replaced him with expensive garbage, and watched a young Cordy Glenn make limited progress after his departure. Was profit the motive in letting him walk? My guess is absolutely yes, but it didn't work. Correct me if I'm wrong but doesn't a truly dreadful Chris Williams still count toward our salary cap? Edited August 22, 2015 by Bill from NYC
JohnC Posted August 21, 2015 Posted August 21, 2015 His inability to replicate his Buffalo performance in TN has been due to injuries......not the system. Did the Bills know his knee was a potential problem? We'll never know but why would ANYONE assume anything like that when they knew about Chris Williams CHRONIC back problems and they signed him....one of the lowest rated guards in the entire NFL. And his back flared up and he missed nearly the entire season. Hence my point about fans attempting to pick a piece of corn out of the pile of sh*t that was the Bills handling of the LG situation. For some reason there is still a question in some fans minds about the organizations lack of commitment to winning during the Littman era. Is it not clear? They were being run to earn a true $30-$40M profit every year and coming up $20M short of the cap year after year was the easiest way to do that. The organization trades Jason Peters because of contract issues and then acquires Derrick Dockery and Langston Walker at outsized contracts relative to talent level. They then move Walker from the right side to the left where he is not suited, and then cut him because he can't play a position he himself knew he wasn't suited for. The decisions that have been made over the years were not only not smart decisions they bordered on being peculiar decisions. The Chris Williams addition at his price tag never made sense because not only was his prior performance level mediocre but the price tag gave the team little value for the dollar, especially (as you noted) his chronic back issues were well known. Compared to the past history on addressing OL issues Whaley's acquisitiions of Incognito and the drafting of Miller were smart and value laden transactions. The bottom line (as you noted) is that the Littman and Wilson business model is no longer in effect under Pegula. The reality is that under the prior regime the central problem was not always associated to money issues as much as it was simply incompetent staff making dumb football decisions.
Kelly the Dog Posted August 21, 2015 Posted August 21, 2015 This comes down to a committed organization not risking losing games over having to overpay for a free agent you can't replace. For all the dogging people give Levitre, here are the facts: He's still never missed a start.....his durability isn't a "was" thing......and in 2013 when the Bills were being killed by statistically TERRIBLE LG play Levitre was performing at a statistically high level for the Titans. When you take a critical look at the situation.....how much did the Bills save to take that risk? Chris Williams, Colin Brown and Doug Legursky were all signed to replace Levitre and they barely got 18 bad games out of about $9.5M spent. Then they played most of last year with a rookie who was terrible and a vastly overpaid backup OG (Kraig Urbik). They saved about $7-$8M tops and got possibly the worst LG play in the league to show for it. Hardly some dodged bullet when you consider that the Bills have had lots of the kind of situations the Titans are reportedly in with Levitre now.....in some cases worse......and in just the past few seasons. Williams, Fitz, Stevie Johnson, Mark Anderson..........is anyone starting 30 page threads to point out how bad those deals were when those guys keep bouncing from team to team or out of the league? No. This thread is just a bunch of people who were trying to defend the team for making an illogical football move. Fortunately, I believe the willingness to let your team go from very high level performance at a position to terrible performance over money are likely over now. So you guys can start blasting Pegula for overspending anytime now. Crickets. You make good points and I agree with all of that in theory and often in what happens in the NFL. I thought the Bills totally blew the Jason Peters deal and said it here a 100 times. My point about Levitre is that he really wasn't that good. He was pretty good and he was very versatile (which would have been the only reason to keep him for that money). Sometimes you need to pay good players and sometimes you need to let them go. Levitre played admirably IMO, and he was an overachiever, he wasn't a top OG.
Rob's House Posted August 21, 2015 Posted August 21, 2015 I probably said this about 500 times back where half the forum went apesh*t over losing Levitre - You don't break the bank for a guard. At least not one of middling physical abilities like Andy Cialis. The guy was solid when healthy, but never anywhere near the dominant force you'd expect from a guard with his salary.
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