Kirby Jackson Posted June 14, 2015 Posted June 14, 2015 From Forbes: "The Bills are really hurting when it comes to advertising and sponsorship revenue, generating less than $15 million of revenueabout half of what the Green Bay Packers pulled induring 2012, placing them in the bottom quartile of the league." Also, I bet almost any NBA team President would likely gladly swap places with any of his NFL counterparts---no guaranteed contracts, overwhelmingly lopsided CBA, massive revenue sharing guaranteeing a profit, ever increasing popularity and TV ratings/merchandise sales. I'm sure they all admire Russ..... This is closer to what I was referring to from a few years back. I think that this has them at 21 in revenue. That is without a naming rights deal (owner's decision) and RW stadium. If you add a naming rights deal that bumps them even more. In addition the antiquated stadium has so many limitations in terms of additional assets. If you gave them the clean canvas that the Cardinals (for example) had a few years back there would be so many more opportunities. http://www.forbes.com/pictures/mlm45ekfed/32-oakland-raiders/ In terms of the league the NFL is by far the easiest. They don't really need to be very good. They don't need to focus on ticket sales, sponsorship, alternative revenue streams, etc... They do this things but if they don't do them well it isn't a big deal. If the Tampa Bay Rays don't do those things well they are the Tampa Bay Rays. The NBA is the gold standard in sports business. That is where a of the top talent goes. They are the highest compensated and most cutting edge. The teams all work together there (NHL has since copied the model). With all of that being said Russ has maximized a limited situation. The market and stadium have a ceiling far less than many other teams. We will see the revenue skyrocket in a new stadium even compared to bigger markets because the Bills run a superior operation.
chris heff Posted June 14, 2015 Posted June 14, 2015 I think that Brandon's efforts to regionalize the team were smart, the Toronto experiment not withstanding. It didn't work, but I understood it. Moving training camp to Rochester was a good idea. The combined market of Buffalo and Rochester makes the Bills market a mid sized one rather than a small one. However Brandon's largest contribution, to what ever degreehe participated, was the stadium lease. It eliminated most potential suitors that wanted to move the franchise. This far over shadows anything else.
mountainwampus Posted June 14, 2015 Posted June 14, 2015 Kelvin Sheppard needs to go. Can't we trade him for someone useful?
Mr. WEO Posted June 14, 2015 Posted June 14, 2015 I think that Brandon's efforts to regionalize the team were smart, the Toronto experiment not withstanding. It didn't work, but I understood it. Moving training camp to Rochester was a good idea. The combined market of Buffalo and Rochester makes the Bills market a mid sized one rather than a small one. However Brandon's largest contribution, to what ever degreehe participated, was the stadium lease. It eliminated most potential suitors that wanted to move the franchise. This far over shadows anything else. I'll give Wilson creadit for that one, but in the end, the lease really didn't matter. Pegula was never going to be outbid and he was not going to move the team anyway.
Kirby Jackson Posted June 14, 2015 Posted June 14, 2015 I'll give Wilson creadit for that one, but in the end, the lease really didn't matter. Pegula was never going to be outbid and he was not going to move the team anyway. Agree, that was RW's last gift. The biggest thing that the lease did was eliminate people that could have been threats to Pegula. The Bon Jovi group was never a threat despite what many here thought. They didn't have the $$. If the lease wasn't in place though some Steve Ballmer type lunatic could have jumped in and bid some ungodly amount.
Mr. WEO Posted June 14, 2015 Posted June 14, 2015 Agree, that was RW's last gift. The biggest thing that the lease did was eliminate people that could have been threats to Pegula. The Bon Jovi group was never a threat despite what many here thought. They didn't have the $$. If the lease wasn't in place though some Steve Ballmer type lunatic could have jumped in and bid some ungodly amount. I agree that the whole "Bills could move to Toronto" thing and its 1 billion posts was a complete nitemare fantasy, never a real threat. Once Pegula identified himslef as a bidder, it was over. There is no way the team would have picked any of the others. Intersting you mention Ballmer--his completely ridiculous over paying for the Clippers likely made other billionaires chuckle a bit, but it also likely eneded the "lunatic billionaire bid" scenario for the Bills. Yes there may have been a resulting bidding war, but there is no way Pegula would have left the auction empty handed. The Bills wanted him and no on else--and he likely bumped it over (priced) to 1.4 billion to just end all discussion.
Kirby Jackson Posted June 14, 2015 Posted June 14, 2015 I agree that the whole "Bills could move to Toronto" thing and its 1 billion posts was a complete nitemare fantasy, never a real threat. Once Pegula identified himslef as a bidder, it was over. There is no way the team would have picked any of the others. Intersting you mention Ballmer--his completely ridiculous over paying for the Clippers likely made other billionaires chuckle a bit, but it also likely eneded the "lunatic billionaire bid" scenario for the Bills. Yes there may have been a resulting bidding war, but there is no way Pegula would have left the auction empty handed. The Bills wanted him and no on else--and he likely bumped it over (priced) to 1.4 billion to just end all discussion. Yeah, you are probably right. Pegula was going to be the guy. He was the perfect buyer.
chris heff Posted June 14, 2015 Posted June 14, 2015 I'll give Wilson creadit for that one, but in the end, the lease really didn't matter. Pegula was never going to be outbid and he was not going to move the team anyway. None of us know who or how involved anyone was in the lease deal. Ralph would have had to sign off on it. Probably was Ralph's idea, but he didn't do the leg work or negotiating. The Pegula ownership is hindsight, was not a forgone conclusion.
Mr. WEO Posted June 14, 2015 Posted June 14, 2015 (edited) None of us know who or how involved anyone was in the lease deal. Ralph would have had to sign off on it. Probably was Ralph's idea, but he didn't do the leg work or negotiating. The Pegula ownership is hindsight, was not a forgone conclusion. Nah, the lease deal had Ralph's demands in it. Doesn't matter who did "the leg work" (not sure what that is). The county was dying to sign a lease extension. I wouldn't say Pegula was completely in hindsight. The Bills certainly knew he was a likely bidder well before Ralph passed. Sorry, Russ gets a 15% servers tip on this one. Edited June 14, 2015 by Mr. WEO
Beerball Posted June 14, 2015 Posted June 14, 2015 Put in Gibran Hamdan! Don't !@#$ with the Chroisen One.
chris heff Posted June 14, 2015 Posted June 14, 2015 Nah, the lease deal had Ralph's demands in it. Doesn't matter who did "the leg work" (not sure what that is). The county was dying to sign a lease extension. I wouldn't say Pegula was completely in hindsight. The Bills certainly knew he was a likely bidder well before Ralph passed. Sorry, Russ gets a 15% servers tip on this one. Leg work means going to the endless meetings required to get anything done with local governments. So you think Ralph, in his nineties, the same Ralph Wilson who in his HOF speech said he was appalled to see all the people in wheelchairs at the parade (he meant amazed), you think he handled 85% of this? The Ralph Wilson that was unable to travel, that Ralph Wison?
Mr. WEO Posted June 14, 2015 Posted June 14, 2015 Leg work means going to the endless meetings required to get anything done with local governments. So you think Ralph, in his nineties, the same Ralph Wilson who in his HOF speech said he was appalled to see all the people in wheelchairs at the parade (he meant amazed), you think he handled 85% of this? The Ralph Wilson that was unable to travel, that Ralph Wison? Come on---a guy who goes to the meetings to finish the discussion and paperwork is just doing his job. Anyone could do that in the organization. Ralph told him what to do and he did it.
chris heff Posted June 14, 2015 Posted June 14, 2015 Come on---a guy who goes to the meetings to finish the discussion and paperwork is just doing his job. Anyone could do that in the organization. Ralph told him what to do and he did it.Yeah that's right businesses that make hundreds of millions and are worth over a billion only need one ninety year old confined to a wheelchair to run it. Ralph could have sent any of us to handle lease negotiations for him. So your position is that Ralph was smart enough to handle this whole lease thing, but an idiot for turning full control over to Brandon a year later.? I mean after all Brandon is really nothing more than a waiter deserving of nothing more than a tip, and at 15% a bad tip at that.
Mr. WEO Posted June 14, 2015 Posted June 14, 2015 Yeah that's right businesses that make hundreds of millions and are worth over a billion only need one ninety year old confined to a wheelchair to run it. Ralph could have sent any of us to handle lease negotiations for him. So your position is that Ralph was smart enough to handle this whole lease thing, but an idiot for turning full control over to Brandon a year later.? I mean after all Brandon is really nothing more than a waiter deserving of nothing more than a tip, and at 15% a bad tip at that. No, that's not what I'm saying. Ralph told hi what he wanted the lease to say and to accomplish. Brandon and others carried out the deal with an Erie County that would have signed Ralph's Depends at that point. This isn't really that hard to figure.
chris heff Posted June 15, 2015 Posted June 15, 2015 No, that's not what I'm saying. Ralph told hi what he wanted the lease to say and to accomplish. Brandon and others carried out the deal with an Erie County that would have signed Ralph's Depends at that point. This isn't really that hard to figure. No it is not, but you make the second half of your assumption sound easy. So let's assume Ralph's instructions were to negotiate a new lease that would make it difficult for new owners to immediately move the team, while at the same time not screwing themselves. I for one don't think that Brandon, et al, we're give a particularly easy task. Furthermore I believe it was handled masterfully.
Mr. WEO Posted June 15, 2015 Posted June 15, 2015 (edited) No it is not, but you make the second half of your assumption sound easy. So let's assume Ralph's instructions were to negotiate a new lease that would make it difficult for new owners to immediately move the team, while at the same time not screwing themselves. I for one don't think that Brandon, et al, we're give a particularly easy task. Furthermore I believe it was handled masterfully. The landlord was never looking to screw the Bills--in fact it has always caved to Wilson and the Bills. All the Bills had to do this time differently was to agree to kick in some loose change to contribute to the 130 million makeover. The County was ready to sign any document that made it a near certainty the Bills would say in the County. They would have signed anything. They had no leverage and the Bills (as always) knew it. I can't imagine this was much of a negotiation, let alone one requiring a...master. Edited June 15, 2015 by Mr. WEO
chris heff Posted June 15, 2015 Posted June 15, 2015 The landlord was never looking to screw the Bills--in fact it has always caved to Wilson and the Bills. All the Bills had to do this time differently was to agree to kick in some loose change to contribute to the 130 million makeover. The County was ready to sign any document that made it a near certainty the Bills would say in the County. They would have signed anything. They had no leverage and the Bills (as always) knew it. I can't imagine this was much of a negotiation, let alone one requiring a...master. They would have signed anything? How do you know this? Were you there? Have you ever had to deal with municipal or county government on any kind of agreement? The landlord was never looking to screw the Bills--in fact it has always caved to Wilson and the Bills. All the Bills had to do this time differently was to agree to kick in some loose change to contribute to the 130 million makeover. The County was ready to sign any document that made it a near certainty the Bills would say in the County. They would have signed anything. They had no leverage and the Bills (as always) knew it. I can't imagine this was much of a negotiation, let alone one requiring a...master. They would have signed anything? How do you know this? Were you there? Have you ever had to deal with municipal or county government on any kind of agreement?
Talley56 Posted June 15, 2015 Posted June 15, 2015 Trentative (although I don't remember if this was ever a topic or just a shot at TE).
YoloinOhio Posted June 15, 2015 Posted June 15, 2015 Trentative (although I don't remember if this was ever a topic or just a shot at TE).Trentative Checkwards
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