C.Biscuit97 Posted June 16, 2015 Posted June 16, 2015 I'll admit that the talk of Taylor frustrates me a little in that I feel like he gets the treatment of "he's a vet!" and "he's just a young guy learning" seem to each cover his question marks in a lot of threads--- which is interesting as they are at times contradictory but get used to assume the best, I'll be curious to see where he lands but until it's full speed and live bullets I think it's healthy to be skeptical of the late rounder that hasn't shown he can do it, instead of always landing on the side of optimism on every question mark (not directed at you, but some of the tyrod fans in a general sense) I totally agree with this, especially when it is being used to put EJ down. It makes no sense. Taylor got to learn under Flacco, Cam Cameron, and Kubiak. EJ got Orton, Kolb, Marrone, and Hacketr.
YattaOkasan Posted June 16, 2015 Posted June 16, 2015 Precisely. And it must have frustrated Roman to no end. Teams adjusted to the read option, the rollouts and moving pockets became easy to defend, and teams forced him to stay in the pocket where he couldn't make hay consistently. My hope is that our edge weapons are the difference between here and SF. It takes defenders to set the edge. Players who have to commit to the box. If this can be read pre-snap, the adjustment, I would guess, is to get the ball to the players on the outside. We have better players on the outside so if teams do commit to stopping the rollout then we can just get the balls in the hands of Sammy or Percy.
C.Biscuit97 Posted June 16, 2015 Posted June 16, 2015 My hope is that our edge weapons are the difference between here and SF. It takes defenders to set the edge. Players who have to commit to the box. If this can be read pre-snap, the adjustment, I would guess, is to get the ball to the players on the outside. We have better players on the outside so if teams do commit to stopping the rollout then we can just get the balls in the hands of Sammy or Percy. I love our weapons but SF had some really good weapons last year as well.
Kirby Jackson Posted June 16, 2015 Posted June 16, 2015 Fair enough but is it fair to judge any qb by their worse game? It's also a game where Watkins had several drops as well as Mike Williams, who dropped a big pass. Joe Flacco, coming off a SB win, had a worse game against hOuston. Again, if it was just EJ who regressed offensively, it's one thing. But pretty much every veteran offensive player, besides your favorite Hogan , regressed under Marrone. They all get a pass, especially a 3rd year qb. Time will tell. P.s. Spiller, IMO, is going to show what good coaching can do for a player. It's going to make Marrone look even worse if he has a really good year. I'm talking more about the things that he just didn't see. I was sitting with a college QB and he was blown away. I know that not everyone was good but he was really, really bad in that game. I'm willing to let it play out and trust the coaches. FWIW, I think that Spiller has a monster year. He will be used like they used Sproles and Reggie. I am taking him in both of my PPR leagues.
Dorkington Posted June 16, 2015 Posted June 16, 2015 I think I've said it in other threads, but the only QB I don't want to win this job (of the top 3) is Cassel -- and I hope it's obvious he's in 3rd place when we get through TC. Bingo 👍
nucci Posted June 16, 2015 Posted June 16, 2015 If EJ vs Houston as the worst game you've seen a QB play, you need to watch more football. or go back and watch the '68 Bills QBs play.
Lurker Posted June 16, 2015 Posted June 16, 2015 With you entirely here. It's a pretty simple proposition; you either become a pocket passer or you fail in this league. Russell Wilson is experiencing success for precisely that reason; he has become a pocket passer and this forces a defense to defend more of the field. If Taylor can't develop into that type of QB, he has little chance for long term success as a starter. GO BILLS!!! The Ravens, with their classic drop back scheme designed for Flacco, would have been unlikely to have kept Taylor so long (or wanted to resign him) if all he could do is run. Teams aren't going to throw out their playbook if the starting QB goes down, even if it's a guy who never goes down like Flacco...
26CornerBlitz Posted June 16, 2015 Author Posted June 16, 2015 or go back and watch the '68 Bills QBs play. Ed Rutkowski was great!
3rdand12 Posted June 16, 2015 Posted June 16, 2015 If EJ vs Houston as the worst game you've seen a QB play, you need to watch more football. No that was really bad if you watched closely or more than once. focus on the O line and get back to me
C.Biscuit97 Posted June 17, 2015 Posted June 17, 2015 I'm talking more about the things that he just didn't see. I was sitting with a college QB and he was blown away. I know that not everyone was good but he was really, really bad in that game. I'm willing to let it play out and trust the coaches. FWIW, I think that Spiller has a monster year. He will be used like they used Sproles and Reggie. I am taking him in both of my PPR leagues. Was it Johnny Manziel? Because I suggest you watch his first NFL start if you thought EJ's was bad.
Kirby Jackson Posted June 17, 2015 Posted June 17, 2015 (edited) If EJ vs Houston as the worst game you've seen a QB play, you need to watch more football.I sat 3 rows from the field. I've seen a few football games believe it or not. The receivers (especially Woods) were extremely frustrated. Texans DBs were yelling at each other b/c they were missing assignments left and right. There were so, so, so many missed opportunities in that game. I've seen every Bills game since 1988 (I was 7) and I probably watch another 5 complete games a week (college and pro). That is the worst game that I have ever seen a guy play. Please go back and watch it again (maybe even from the end zone cam) and feel free to give your opinion. Again, it was 1 game but if you re-watched it you wouldn't be surprised that it was his last. Edited June 17, 2015 by Kirby Jackson
YattaOkasan Posted June 17, 2015 Posted June 17, 2015 I love our weapons but SF had some really good weapons last year as well. I am going to take Sammy, Percy, Woods, Clay, and Shady as speed outside options over Boldin, Crabtree, Stevie, Davis, and Gore last year.
Kirby Jackson Posted June 17, 2015 Posted June 17, 2015 (edited) Was it Johnny Manziel? Because I suggest you watch his first NFL start if you thought EJ's was bad. Johnny's 1st game (against us) wasn't awful. His 1st start was atrocious. The game that Rex Grossman played against GB about 10 years ago is the worst that I have ever seen. The EJ game is the worst that I have ever seen in person (should have clarified that). I've probably seen about 170 NFL games live. Edited June 17, 2015 by Kirby Jackson
3rdand12 Posted June 17, 2015 Posted June 17, 2015 I'm talking more about the things that he just didn't see. I was sitting with a college QB and he was blown away. I know that not everyone was good but he was really, really bad in that game. I'm willing to let it play out and trust the coaches. FWIW, I think that Spiller has a monster year. He will be used like they used Sproles and Reggie. I am taking him in both of my PPR leagues. This comment is reminder why i am trying to listen closely about his read and release. we have already heard about hesitation but i will wait for Training camp to form a solid opinion. the issues of going from Cassel to Tyrod midstream might be significant. I am agreeing with one of you fine fellows who posted upstream, EJ and Tyrod can run the same offense plays i would bet. Cassel is different animal. Is Tyrod a pocket passer? i answer you with this question. Can the O line fold nicely under the pass rush and consistently for a pocket passer?
NoSaint Posted June 17, 2015 Posted June 17, 2015 I sat 3 rows from the field. I've seen a few football games believe it or not. The receivers (especially Woods) were extremely frustrated. Texans DBs were yelling at each other b/c they were missing assignments left and right. There were so, so, so many missed opportunities in that game. I've seen every Bills game since 1988 (I was 7) and I probably watch another 5 complete games a week (college and pro). That is the worst game that I have ever seen a guy play. Please go back and watch it again (maybe even from the end zone cam) and feel free to give your opinion. Again, it was 1 game but if you re-watched it you wouldn't be surprised that it was his last. I know you feel strongly on that game. How much weight do you think that JJ Watt playing lights out and our line being a mess factor into EJs issue that day though? I'm curious if you have gone back to re watch it or might be a little too strongly swayed by the emotion of being there and the theatrics of the experience. Absolutely not a knock on your football acumen - just surprised me that you feel THAT strongly about the single game. I'm not arguing he was good, just that having a DE take over a game like that, and not getting a lot of help from teammates or coaches skew me away from final judgement on what I saw as a bad day (and not the worst ever even without mitigating factors)
3rdand12 Posted June 17, 2015 Posted June 17, 2015 I sat 3 rows from the field. I've seen a few football games believe it or not. The receivers (especially Woods) were extremely frustrated. Texans DBs were yelling at each other b/c they were missing assignments left and right. There were so, so, so many missed opportunities in that game. I've seen every Bills game since 1988 (I was 7) and I probably watch another 5 complete games a week (college and pro). That is the worst game that I have ever seen a guy play. Please go back and watch it again (maybe even from the end zone cam) and feel free to give your opinion. Again, it was 1 game but if you re-watched it you wouldn't be surprised that it was his last. I have wondered about why he broke down that game. But he did break down without question and should have been pulled. Was it JJ watt or was it something more? I reserve my opinions. But i will say i have much more hope for all the QBs under Roman and Co.
LB3 Posted June 17, 2015 Posted June 17, 2015 (edited) I sat 3 rows from the field. I've seen a few football games believe it or not. The receivers (especially Woods) were extremely frustrated. Texans DBs were yelling at each other b/c they were missing assignments left and right. There were so, so, so many missed opportunities in that game. I've seen every Bills game since 1988 (I was 7) and I probably watch another 5 complete games a week (college and pro). That is the worst game that I have ever seen a guy play. Please go back and watch it again (maybe even from the end zone cam) and feel free to give your opinion. Again, it was 1 game but if you re-watched it you wouldn't be surprised that it was his last. No offense, but it can't possibly be. I know it seemed that way, because you were frustrated and it is still very fresh in your mind, but... 10/11/2009 http://espn.go.com/nfl/gamecast?gameId=291011002&version=mobile&gcSection=boxscore&src=desktop Edited June 17, 2015 by LBSeeBallLBGetBall
C.Biscuit97 Posted June 17, 2015 Posted June 17, 2015 Johnny's 1st game (against us) wasn't awful. His 1st start was atrocious. The game that Rex Grossman played against GB about 10 years ago is the worst that I have ever seen. The EJ game is the worst that I have ever seen in person (should have clarified that). I've probably seen about 170 NFL games live. I guess you missed the Losman era. Manuel was bad but he had Watt on his knees all game. I've never seen an oline get female dog slapped like that. And there's a lot to like about Woods but he needs to control himself more. He got kicked out of a game his rookie year for being dumb.
NoSaint Posted June 17, 2015 Posted June 17, 2015 Johnny's 1st game (against us) wasn't awful. His 1st start was atrocious. The game that Rex Grossman played against GB about 10 years ago is the worst that I have ever seen. The EJ game is the worst that I have ever seen in person (should have clarified that). I've probably seen about 170 NFL games live. Makes a little more sense with the qualifier. Though part of me suspects having a college qb in your ear criticizing might have still impacted a little extra. 170 live? That's season tickets for 20+ years? Seemed higher than I would've expected, even as a guy that I know has seen A LOT.
3rdand12 Posted June 17, 2015 Posted June 17, 2015 I know you feel strongly on that game. How much weight do you think that JJ Watt playing lights out and our line being a mess factor into EJs issue that day though? I'm curious if you have gone back to re watch it or might be a little too strongly swayed by the emotion of being there and the theatrics of the experience. Absolutely not a knock on your football acumen - just surprised me that you feel THAT strongly about the single game. I'm not arguing he was good, just that having a DE take over a game like that, and not getting a lot of help from teammates or coaches skew me away from final judgement on what I saw as a bad day (and not the worst ever even without mitigating factors) I would suggest none. I think it was Marrone getting Orton in . pure and simple conspiracy theory on my part. How many pass plays? against a nasty pass rush that was winning big time. nope, keep passing em Nate. somethings gotta give!!!
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