GG Posted June 12, 2015 Posted June 12, 2015 with quarterback competitions, there is generally no truth that comes out until the coach actually announces who is starter is. so it's meaningless to speculate. all anyone can do is make observations based on more than 3 practices, and then wait for the coach to announce it. everything else is pure and unfettered speculation. jw I think this also qualifies as an inane thread.
dezertbill Posted June 12, 2015 Posted June 12, 2015 I would agree with JW. Anyone coming out in June and saying that a QB is in the lead is just trying to grab a headline. Granted, one could see through OTA's if someone is stronger, in more shape, or more accurate per say than previous camps, but that is against air and shouldn't be considered anything that would put someone ahead in the QB race. When the bullets start flying for real is when the competition begins. I am a big EJ fan, and like the rest of us I would prefer EJ to win the job over a retread like Cassel. I would even prefer Taylor to win it over Cassel, who in my mind is another Orton. But we are months away from seeing headway in that battle, regardless what some writer from a publication that I have barely heard of wrote about "Manule".
Buffaloed in Pa Posted June 12, 2015 Posted June 12, 2015 Blah,Blah ,Blah. Live action will tell all. Seen it,heard it before. Many,many times. I hope E.J. does win it,since we have invested a 1st rd pick on him.
DirtDart Posted June 12, 2015 Posted June 12, 2015 ~ Who is the Manule that gained 8-10 pounds and when did we get Dough Whaley as GM?? Troll Alert!!!!!!
Beerball Posted June 13, 2015 Posted June 13, 2015 ~ Troll Alert!!!!!! If you read the "article" you'd notice that the misspelling came from there.
Gugny Posted June 13, 2015 Posted June 13, 2015 I think this also qualifies as an inane thread. I agree. It's crazy.
PlayoffsPlease Posted June 13, 2015 Posted June 13, 2015 I don't really think you can blame a QBs development entirely on the coaching staff. Was Dan Marino's QB coach a superstar? Was Elway, Manning or Jim Kelly's QB coaches really what made them successful? Or even more, was Marv Levy, or Tony Dungy what made them winners? How about this thought: Maybe...... juuuuuust maybe EJ really isn't that good, and we whiffed on the pick. Maybe he is exactly what he appears to be, a great, intelligent, hard working guy that just can't handle the speed of the game once he's on the field. I can't see how Marrone did that to him when you watch some game film from FSU, read the breakdown of his game, and the pre-draft analysts analysis and tell me those things don't read like a post game analysis of any game he played in for the Bills. I would love to see him prove all of that wrong, I like the guy, he seems like the perfect fit to be a franchise guy on size and maturity alone, but I'd also like to win the lottery and I don't see either happening. personally, I have been told I have the best practice swing of any golfer anyone has ever seen, but once the ball is in front of my club all bets are off, and I'm lucky not to kill anyone withing 200 yard of my shot immediately to my right. I think this is what we are seeing... a great practice performance. You are dead on on the importance of coaching to the development of a QB. If the coaching mattered much, you would expect to see certain coaches developing multiple excellent QBs. But there is almost no evidence of that. It is much more often that an excellent QB and a coach who knows how to utilize an excellent QB end up in the same place at the same time.
Saxum Posted June 13, 2015 Posted June 13, 2015 leading an undrafted guy and a 6th rounder is like beating a midget in basketball Yes because no undrafted or 6th rounder who played for New England ever became a good QB without massive cheating.
Solomon Grundy Posted June 13, 2015 Posted June 13, 2015 You are dead on on the importance of coaching to the development of a QB. If the coaching mattered much, you would expect to see certain coaches developing multiple excellent QBs. But there is almost no evidence of that. It is much more often that an excellent QB and a coach who knows how to utilize an excellent QB end up in the same place at the same time. IDK guys. Ted Marchibroda coached/helped develop some great QBs in the league: Roman Gabriel, Sonny Jurgensen, Billy Kilmer, Bert Jones, Jim Kelly and even Jim Harbaugh
PlayoffsPlease Posted June 13, 2015 Posted June 13, 2015 IDK guys. Ted Marchibroda coached/helped develop some great QBs in the league: Roman Gabriel, Sonny Jurgensen, Billy Kilmer, Bert Jones, Jim Kelly and even Jim Harbaugh Ted was a great coach (and a Bonnie grad). But Gabriel, Jurgensen, Harbaugh and Kilmer were never great QBs. And Bert Jones and Jim Kelly were good before and after Ted. Its clear some coaches are better at getting more out of a QB than others, but coaches rarely fundamentally alter a QBs status as bad/good/great
Solomon Grundy Posted June 13, 2015 Posted June 13, 2015 Ted was a great coach (and a Bonnie grad). But Gabriel, Jurgensen, Harbaugh and Kilmer were never great QBs. And Bert Jones and Jim Kelly were good before and after Ted. Its clear some coaches are better at getting more out of a QB than others, but coaches rarely fundamentally alter a QBs status as bad/good/great Roman Gabriel was the POTY under Ted and Bert Jones was NFL MVP. The others were all playoff caliber QBs
PlayoffsPlease Posted June 13, 2015 Posted June 13, 2015 Roman Gabriel was the POTY under Ted and Bert Jones was NFL MVP. The others were all playoff caliber QBs A great season isn't a great QB. It just isn't. Jim Kelly was an HOF caliber QB whether or not Ted was around during his career. As I said before Ted was a great coach. I don't think there is any evidence he fundamentally offered the career trajectory of any of the QBs you mentioned.
BuffaloFan68 Posted June 13, 2015 Posted June 13, 2015 EJ clearly performs well during 2 minute drills. If the first option was there, he got the ball out quickly but if not then he quickly scanned options 2 & 3, sometimes hitting option 2 & sometimes 3 depending on who was more open. I like when he looked at options 2 then 3 & then delivered to option 2. We need him to be consistent.
Gugny Posted June 13, 2015 Posted June 13, 2015 A great season isn't a great QB. It just isn't. Jim Kelly was an HOF caliber QB whether or not Ted was around during his career. As I said before Ted was a great coach. I don't think there is any evidence he fundamentally offered the career trajectory of any of the QBs you mentioned. EJ has had Ted AND Ted 2 during his career. So what's your point?
PromoTheRobot Posted June 13, 2015 Posted June 13, 2015 (edited) Not sure if I would refer to the person who wrote piece linked in initial post as a member of "the media." in fact, this person isn't even at practice and instead citing a NJ.com report. not sure what that means either. and i'm further skeptical given what the person wrote, to wit: "Manule has gained 8-10 pounds ..." Manule? the media is not entirely blameless here, but someone on this board began a thread by pointing us to this "report." to which, i say again, (and politely) stop it. jw Like I said this entire story is based on the Bills depth chart. That's all. Edited June 13, 2015 by PromoTheRobot
3rdnlng Posted June 13, 2015 Posted June 13, 2015 A great season isn't a great QB. It just isn't. Jim Kelly was an HOF caliber QB whether or not Ted was around during his career. As I said before Ted was a great coach. I don't think there is any evidence he fundamentally offered the career trajectory of any of the QBs you mentioned.Oh please, Ted was a great coach and did have an affect on Kelly's career. He was willing to put his ego aside and prepareKelly during the week to call his own plays. I'm not sure what you mean by fundamentally "offered" but he did fundamentally alter Kelly's career. Was Kelly going to be a HOF QB anyways? Probably, but without the no huddle, it wasn't a lock.
Rocky Landing Posted June 13, 2015 Posted June 13, 2015 (edited) I'm not at all familiar with the author of this article, Trevor Conley, but I hope he's reading this. Grammar, and spelling errors aside (and there are plenty), this rubbish really shouldn't be considered journalism. This crappy article isn't just void of objectivity, it is intentionally misleading. A quote from the article: "Manule has gained 8-10 pounds in the offseason, with the goal of remaining healthy while taking an NFL beating. Manuel will just have to keep up the same work, because Cassel and Taylor had "moments that ranged from mediocre to awful."" That last underlined phrase is in quotation marks because it is a direct quote from an nbcsports.com article by Mike Florio quoting Vic Carucci with a link. Conley assumes that most readers won't bother following the link, and discover how badly, and dishonestly he is taking it out of context. The full quote reads: "As Carucci explains it, Manuel, Cassel, and Taylor looked unspectacular during the first week of OTAs, and they all had “moments that ranged from mediocre to awful.”" To remove EJ's name from that quote does more than a disservice to the Buffalo Sun Times' readers. It misrepresents Vic Carucci, and Mike Florio-- two actual journalists with whom Trevor Conley would pretend to be colleagues. Edited June 13, 2015 by Rocky Landing
jumbalaya Posted June 13, 2015 Posted June 13, 2015 I posted last year when people where cranking on Geno Smith when he played horrible that at least he was always throwing (or trying to) throw the ball down field. I thought that was much better for his long term growth than Marrone keeping EJ's play ulltra conservative. Hopefully EJ wins the QB spot, plays the position the way he is supposed too without fear of getting yanked over a bad play, and just continues to grow all season. I think if Rex sees progress in EJ he will allow him to just be the guy. Rex is that type of coach.
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