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Article: E.J. is beating out Cassel and Taylor in OTA's

pbanach

By pbanach
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BillsFan-4-Ever All Pro

BillsFan-4-Ever

Posted
Posted (edited)

I am sure you won't believe it even when presented

 

oops my bad my #'s were off... I did cite 7 spots no?

 

http://espn.go.com/nfl/statistics/team/_/stat/total/year/2014 #26 Buffalo

http://espn.go.com/nfl/statistics/team/_/stat/total/year/2013 #19 Buffalo

 

 

http://www.nfl.com/stats/categorystats?tabSeq=2&statisticCategory=TOTAL_YARDS&conference=ALL&role=TM&season=2014&seasonType=REG #26 Buffalo

 

http://www.nfl.com/stats/categorystats?archive=true&conference=null&role=TM&offensiveStatisticCategory=TOTAL_YARDS&defensiveStatisticCategory=null&season=2013&seasonType=REG&tabSeq=2&qualified=false&Submit=Go #19 Buffalo


Kyle Orton had the number one offense in the NFL.

you sir are on crack!

Edited by BillsFan-4-Ever
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FireChan All Pro

FireChan

Posted
Posted (edited)
So he wasn't 29th? So you were wrong?

 

That's why you always show a link.

Edited by FireChan
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BillsFan-4-Ever All Pro

BillsFan-4-Ever

Posted
Posted (edited)

So he wasn't 29th? So you were wrong?

 

That's why you always show a link.

yeah what a fool I was. I made a poor recollection of the exact # while correctly recalling the 7 spot difference.

 

I was mistaken (or to satisfy you wrong) ..... I tarnished EJ's total O yards by painting him 5 spots lower that he actually was as a ROOKIE

 

#19 is just 3 spots below HALF of the NFL. Not too bad for a rookie

#26 is 10 spots below HALF of the NFL. Not very good for a 10 year pro

and my link(s) actually IMPROVED the # for EJ thanks for making me look :beer:

Edited by BillsFan-4-Ever
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Nanker Hall of Famer

Nanker

Posted
Posted

There wasn't much evidence in his time with the Bills that he was a good coach. He didn't improve the O-line despite taking a more hands on role and he didn't appear to identify ways of developing others on his time - although I accept that maybe he did and it was just his position coaches were not good enough to execute the improvement plans he had devised.

 

There was, however, evidence of him being somewhat of a good motivator. He didn't necessarily strike me as one but his Bills team last year played harder than any Bills team in the 12 years I have been watching. They won a lot of games late and they were genuinely competitive in every single game. I also think that if you asked most NFL observers and kept it entirely team neutral - "what is the ceiling for a team with a mediocre veteran at Quarterback?" the best record you would hear in response would likely be 9-7 and he got the Bills to that mark.

 

How much did he and Hackett hold EJ back? I don't know... but we are going to get some kind of clue in the next few months I suspect.

 

To quote the great motivator, " Don't confuse effort with results."

 

Well, I for one am glad EJ's been named the starter and I'm looking forward to him leading The Bills to a SuperBowl victory.

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GG Hall of Famer

GG

Posted
Posted

 

Lies, damn lies & statistics;

 

Passing Offense -

 

2013 Buffalo #28

2014 Buffalo #18

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San-O Veteran

San-O

Posted
Posted

 

So you're basically pulling overall offensive team stats for 2013 and 2014, and saying the 2014 stats indicate Kyle Orton

was a worse QB than EJ in was 2013?

 

So you're basically pulling overall offensive team stats for 2013 and 2014, and saying the 2014 stats indicate Kyle Orton

was a worse QB than EJ in was 2013?

 

Kyle Orton was bad, but clearly not "E.J." bad.

 

http://www.nfl.com/stats/categorystats?seasonType=REG&d-447263-n=1&d-447263-o=2&d-447263-p=1&d-447263-s=PASSING_PASSER_RATING&tabSeq=0&season=2014&Submit=Go&experience=&archive=false&statisticCategory=PASSING&conference=null&qualified=false

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GunnerBill Hall of Famer

GunnerBill

Posted
Posted

 

Lies, damn lies & statistics;

 

Passing Offense -

 

2013 Buffalo #28

2014 Buffalo #18

 

Again this isn't the full picture though is it? We were the 2nd best rushing attack in the league in 2013 and started basically 3 rookie Quarterbacks so of course we didn't throw it much... we couldn't run in 2014 so we threw a bunch, especially once we made the switch.

 

With all these things the pure numbers don't tell the whole picture.

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FireChan All Pro

FireChan

Posted
Posted

 

Lies, damn lies & statistics;

 

Passing Offense -

 

2013 Buffalo #28

2014 Buffalo #18

2014 Bills also had 4 games of EJ at the helm, throwing for less than 200 yards at least twice, but sure, we'll go ahead and attribute all of 2014 to Orton. It just makes sense.

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BillsFan-4-Ever All Pro

BillsFan-4-Ever

Posted
Posted (edited)

 

Lies, damn lies & statistics;

 

Passing Offense -

 

2013 Buffalo #28

2014 Buffalo #18

sarcasm?

 

who indicated passing? why select only a portion of the game total? TOTAL offense in yards.

 

Moron said the Bills stood a better chance to win with KO yet total yards by the offense is far better with the ROOKIE than it was with the 10 year pro.

2014 Bills also had 4 games of EJ at the helm, throwing for less than 200 yards at least twice, but sure, we'll go ahead and attribute all of 2014 to Orton. It just makes sense.

and one can argue EJ missed 4 games in 2013. your point?

 

In all, the teams total offensive output was far worse with Orton than EJ.

 

Link?

Edited by BillsFan-4-Ever
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GG Hall of Famer

GG

Posted
Posted

sarcasm?

 

who indicated passing? why select only a portion of the game total? TOTAL offense in yards.

 

Moron said the Bills stood a better chance to win with KO yet total yards by the offense is far better with the ROOKIE than it was with the 10 year pro.

 

Ok, you got me. What stats, other than passing would you like to use in discussing QB play?

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San-O Veteran

San-O

Posted
Posted

sarcasm?

 

who indicated passing? why select only a portion of the game total? TOTAL offense in yards.

 

Moron said the Bills stood a better chance to win with KO yet total yards by the offense is far better with the ROOKIE than it was with the 10 year pro.

and one can argue EJ missed 4 games in 2013. your point?

 

In all, the teams total offensive output was far worse with Orton than EJ.

 

Link?

 

 

And apparently Marrone had seen enough after four games with E.J., to bench him after the unforgettable 21-44 performance against the Texans.

 

 

http://www.nfl.com/gamecenter/2014092802/2014/REG4/bills@texans?icampaign=GC_schedule_rr#menu=gameinfo

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GunnerBill Hall of Famer

GunnerBill

Posted
Posted

I don't think, in defence of BillsFan-4-Ever (and we know his EJ position), that he is saying EJ was obviously a better Quarterback than Orton - I think he is saying the offense performed better as a whole with him at the helm. One potential reason for that as I've already argued was our rushing success came largely out of the read option and when EJ was taken away that allowed teams to play truer at the line, we lined up in Shotgun less and our more "traditional" running game was awful. The second is that there were other injuries that played a part - Chris Williams was our best run blocker despite the TBD hate and CJ was one of our two "big play" threats along with Watkins and he got injured early on too.

 

So he wasn't just discussing Quarterback play. Our offense was bad last year. The reasons it was bad were many and varied and certainly went deeper than both EJ and Orton.

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Buftex Hall of Famer

Buftex

Posted
Posted (edited)

 

i

the end result does not change no matter what the latest hot take or spin is. the truth eventually comes out -- or in this case, the quarterback chosen -- and there's no point guessing at it in the middle of June.

 

jw

I like your points, JW...

 

Let me ask (and maybe you can't answer this): do you ever think that teams get caught up in reacting to these "hot takes", and it influences their decision making at times? I kind of get the feeling it does sometimes.

 

In some ways, I think paying too much attention to this kind of stuff is sort of what short circuits some personalities...Doug Marrone comes to mind. And I am not referring to his handling of the Bills QB's in 2014. Referring more to his sort of Jekyll and Hyde transformation at times, when dealing with the media...sometimes (particularly in 2013) he was pretty affable, and seemed to almost enjoy hearing himself speak with the media. But, when losses started to pile up, and the line between "hot takes" and actual journalism was blurred in a negative way, he started to get more and more prickly...

 

I recall last season, when Schoop and other GR personalities started to obsess (as only they can do) over Marrone's unwillingness to go for it on 4th downs (it was a daily drum beat on GR), there was a game (I can't recall which one) where Marrone decided to gamble on 4th down, and was unsuccessful. After the game, when asked about it, he said something to the effect of "well, I did that one for you guys, and now you can understand why going for it on 4th down isn't always the best thing"....almost like he was did it, just to shut them up.

 

Also, I remember last offseason, the radio guys (those guys again) seem to really focus on EJ's rough practices in OTA's and in training camp sessions, pretty early on. When he spoke to the media, he took a defensive tone with the media, which I had never detected before. I wouldn't suggest that was the reason he had such a tough summer, but I can see where it could have an effect.

Edited by Buftex
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FireChan All Pro

FireChan

Posted
Posted

sarcasm?

 

who indicated passing? why select only a portion of the game total? TOTAL offense in yards.

 

Moron said the Bills stood a better chance to win with KO yet total yards by the offense is far better with the ROOKIE than it was with the 10 year pro.

 

and one can argue EJ missed 4 games in 2013. your point?

 

In all, the teams total offensive output was far worse with Orton than EJ.

 

Link?

How can you prove that with stats that combine EJ's and Orton's play?

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NoSaint Hall of Famer

NoSaint

Posted
Posted

This is pure and unfettered speculation. The competition is impossible to gauge because the media has had very, very limited access to watching practice. Three sessions does not a clear observation make. And, they're throwing mostly against air.

Astute and longtime Bills fans should be accustomed to how a QB competition plays out. And it's not decided in June. Rex is right, this is a process that has a way of working itself out. We'll have a far better idea come the third or fourth week of training camp as to who the front-runner is.

Anyone suggesting that there's one now is merely speculating with no consequences of being wrong or right.

 

Stop it.

 

jw

didnt roman himself say that he expected to have a pretty good grasp on the decision at the end of these camps, despite not wanting to publicly announce or 100% finalize it until later?

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Gugny Hall of Famer

Gugny

Posted
Posted (edited)

2014 Bills also had 4 games of EJ at the helm, throwing for less than 200 yards at least twice, but sure, we'll go ahead and attribute all of 2014 to Orton. It just makes sense.

 

You're wrong. One game was under 200. It was 173 with 73% completion in a win against CHI, in which he passed for TD and rushed for one, too. Since when is that bad?

Edited by Gugny
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