thewildrabbit Posted June 14, 2015 Posted June 14, 2015 What it looks like the last 15 years of million dollar moron coaches, and many fans just didn't understand is ...that even if you have an elite QB you had better be able to protect the most important player on the field. The Bills found an elite QB in statuesque Drew Bledsoe and instead of continuing to build the O line to properly protect him (which they intended by drafting OT Williams #4 overall)... they instead told him to get the ball out quicker. Then tried to replace him with a first round scrub QB, and an aging journeyman QB. The scouts didn't get it right with that 1st round pick at OT so they thought that they would most certainly get it right with the QB. The entire idea behind drafting JP was that he was more mobile, and how did that work out? How on gods green earth can coaches expect to succeed with any QB with known inferior players on the line is beyond me. Bring in a bight new shiny QB, and let him get the crap beaten out of him for a few years, and then wonder what happened! Trent Edwards might have become another Joe Montana as Bill Walsh suggested... except for the several severe concussions he suffered behind a bad line. Wash, rinse, repeat, over the last 15 years and the stupidity just never ends As it stands the current Buffalo Bills still have two to three "maybe" players for the line this season or perhaps more depending on how the the other known scrubs on the roster pan out. Everything points to the fact that even if the Bills only want to be able to run the ball successfully with their new 10 mil per RB, that they had better have some top quality players at the OG position, and right now it doesn't look good with anyone on the roster. It looks like the power scheme the Bills want to run is the exact same scheme Kelly put in with the Eagles, and Mathis was on par to have another great season until his injury put him out 7 games last year. McCoy was "skittering" around to much without their star OG on the field. Again, to those that don't think an all pro upgrade at OG will make a difference need to take a long hard look at who the Cowboys drafted #1 last season, and the impact that single player had on their entire offense! Its a moot point anyway according to JW. I'm just venting because the Bills are passing on another real chance to help build a quality line. Anyway, like "The Dean" pointed out, Great teams (and GMs) make contacts like this happen.
Deranged Rhino Posted June 14, 2015 Posted June 14, 2015 Its a moot point anyway according to JW. I'm just venting because the Bills are passing on another real chance to help build a quality line. It's going to be really fun this season to watch your reaction when the line play improves drastically from what it was last year, simply due to a scheme change and proper coaching.
machine gun kelly Posted June 14, 2015 Posted June 14, 2015 As much as it would be nice to sign Mathis, we already brought in a bunch of guys in free agency along the offense, and don't have the money to do it. Even if you cut C Williams, amd Urbick, we won't have enough for emergencies, not to mention the Dareus thing.
thebandit27 Posted June 14, 2015 Posted June 14, 2015 What it looks like the last 15 years of million dollar moron coaches, and many fans just didn't understand is ...that even if you have an elite QB you had better be able to protect the most important player on the field. The Bills found an elite QB in statuesque Drew Bledsoe and instead of continuing to build the O line to properly protect him (which they intended by drafting OT Williams #4 overall)... they instead told him to get the ball out quicker. Then tried to replace him with a first round scrub QB, and an aging journeyman QB. The scouts didn't get it right with that 1st round pick at OT so they thought that they would most certainly get it right with the QB. The entire idea behind drafting JP was that he was more mobile, and how did that work out? How on gods green earth can coaches expect to succeed with any QB with known inferior players on the line is beyond me. Bring in a bight new shiny QB, and let him get the crap beaten out of him for a few years, and then wonder what happened! Trent Edwards might have become another Joe Montana as Bill Walsh suggested... except for the several severe concussions he suffered behind a bad line. Wash, rinse, repeat, over the last 15 years and the stupidity just never ends As it stands the current Buffalo Bills still have two to three "maybe" players for the line this season or perhaps more depending on how the the other known scrubs on the roster pan out. Everything points to the fact that even if the Bills only want to be able to run the ball successfully with their new 10 mil per RB, that they had better have some top quality players at the OG position, and right now it doesn't look good with anyone on the roster. It looks like the power scheme the Bills want to run is the exact same scheme Kelly put in with the Eagles, and Mathis was on par to have another great season until his injury put him out 7 games last year. McCoy was "skittering" around to much without their star OG on the field. Again, to those that don't think an all pro upgrade at OG will make a difference need to take a long hard look at who the Cowboys drafted #1 last season, and the impact that single player had on their entire offense! Its a moot point anyway according to JW. I'm just venting because the Bills are passing on another real chance to help build a quality line. Anyway, like "The Dean" pointed out, Great teams (and GMs) make contacts like this happen. Ask the Packers, Colts, Seahawks, and patriots whether you need a great OL for your QB. None of then have one, all finished ahead of Dallas. That's also why teams like NE trade away all-pro OGs like Logan Mankins and Seattle trades away an all-pro C like Max Unger (those two teams played in the Superbowl just FYI). There's absolutely zero comparison in terms of importance; QB is far, far more critical. For every Dallas type team, there's 5 that prove the opposite point.
thewildrabbit Posted June 14, 2015 Posted June 14, 2015 It's going to be really fun this season to watch your reaction when the line play improves drastically from what it was last year, simply due to a scheme change and proper coaching. Hey man, I'll be ecstatic should the Bills field a even a somewhat decent offensive line this year. So cheers The sad reality is the GM went after top veterans OT / OG in free agency for a very real reason.
machine gun kelly Posted June 14, 2015 Posted June 14, 2015 As much as it would be nice to sign Mathis, we already brought in a bunch of guys in free agency along the offense, and don't have the money to do it. Even if you cut C Williams, amd Urbick, we won't have enough for emergencies, not to mention the Dareus thing. Ok- I can admit it, I was wrong. Urbick and C. Williams will cost us 5.55 million in cap space. I'm not a capologist so some of you can probably provide more insight than myself. Would Mathis take $6 mil a year if there some decent guaranteed money? He fought over 5.5 mil for two years with the Eagles. People do love to play for Rex so maybe. Between Miller and Incognito, we should have one of the two improve us as a starter and Mathis absolutely would help us on the other side. I personally hope we do it. The other thing I don't know is how much higher is the cap next year for the Dareus issue.
3rdand12 Posted June 14, 2015 Posted June 14, 2015 It's going to be really fun this season to watch your reaction when the line play improves drastically from what it was last year, simply due to a scheme change and proper coaching. we hope. you know thats starting a rookie and another guy out of the league and another second year guy that struggled or did not even play. you know this? right Greg? unproven. at all> not a bit of it Mathis can walk in and play. But if the coaches and whaley think they are fine well, lordy i hope they are right. because creating lanes and protecting the QB might the most important feature of the offense As much as it would be nice to sign Mathis, we already brought in a bunch of guys in free agency along the offense, and don't have the money to do it. Even if you cut C Williams, amd Urbick, we won't have enough for emergencies, not to mention the Dareus thing. there are many ways too skin this cat. and you dont have to cut Urbik. cwilliams goes though Ask the Packers, Colts, Seahawks, and patriots whether you need a great OL for your QB. None of then have one, all finished ahead of Dallas. That's also why teams like NE trade away all-pro OGs like Logan Mankins and Seattle trades away an all-pro C like Max Unger (those two teams played in the Superbowl just FYI). There's absolutely zero comparison in terms of importance; QB is far, far more critical. For every Dallas type team, there's 5 that prove the opposite point. How do you define a successful O line Bandit. i might not look for stats but an ability to control the line and move the ball. they dont have to be heroes. just get the job done. thats all i ask from our upcoming Line
machine gun kelly Posted June 14, 2015 Posted June 14, 2015 3rd and 12, I understand we can extend contracts, renegotiate with Mario's agent, and so on, but with only losing one back up lineman, that would not hurt that much. I understand your comments so not arguing with you, but can see us using those other options when it's Dareus's turn, and that is going to be a lot more money.
Deranged Rhino Posted June 15, 2015 Posted June 15, 2015 Hey man, I'll be ecstatic should the Bills field a even a somewhat decent offensive line this year. So cheers The sad reality is the GM went after top veterans OT / OG in free agency for a very real reason. I have no doubts. You may end up being right, I don't doubt your passion to see the Bills win at all. I just think they're in better shape than you realize. There's no way to tell until real football starts of course, and I could be completely overestimating the impact of the coaching change + a year of development. We'll find out soon enough.
Doc Posted June 15, 2015 Posted June 15, 2015 Ask the Packers, Colts, Seahawks, and patriots whether you need a great OL for your QB. None of then have one, all finished ahead of Dallas. That's also why teams like NE trade away all-pro OGs like Logan Mankins and Seattle trades away an all-pro C like Max Unger (those two teams played in the Superbowl just FYI). There's absolutely zero comparison in terms of importance; QB is far, far more critical. For every Dallas type team, there's 5 that prove the opposite point. Again, Brady looked bad the first 4 games last year while the OL was getting settled.
thebandit27 Posted June 15, 2015 Posted June 15, 2015 Again, Brady looked bad the first 4 games last year while the OL was getting settled. Indeed. Nobody is arguing that the OL can be consistently atrocious (although some guys--like Luck last year and Big Ben and Rodgers in seasons of yore--have managed to overcome it). The overarching point here is that they didn't put together any type of dominant line; they merely pieces together something passable.
26CornerBlitz Posted June 15, 2015 Posted June 15, 2015 (edited) @AroundTheNFL Drew Rosenhaus says 'at least a half a dozen' teams are interested in Evan Mathis http://at.nfl.com/b6i6w8L Buffalo Bills coach Rex Ryan admitted his team is looking into the possibility of bringing Mathis to town. "I think he's a good football player; there's no doubt," Ryan said at a charity softball game Saturday evening, via ESPN. "We'll do our due diligence, so to speak, but I'm pretty happy with our guards." Edited June 15, 2015 by 26CornerBlitz
Matt in KC Posted June 15, 2015 Posted June 15, 2015 @AroundTheNFL Drew Rosenhaus says 'at least a half a dozen' teams are interested in Evan Mathis http://at.nfl.com/b6i6w8L So best guess: 6 teams have asked what he wants. Rosenhaus is trying to push the 1 team that might actually be interested (in that ballpark) to make the best offer they can, pretending there is significant competition.
johnwalter Posted June 15, 2015 Posted June 15, 2015 mathis' talent already is, or will soon, begin(ning) to fade. i suspect he is looking for a 2 or 3 year contract with a contender, even if at a lower salary, to take one last crack at a ring.
Screwball Posted June 15, 2015 Posted June 15, 2015 Interesting read, Mathis may not get as much as he wanted. http://www.nj.com/giants/index.ssf/2015/06/whats_evan_mathis_worth_on_the_open_market_exec_ag.html ...I asked for some opinions and had three sources guestimate what Mathis would land on the open market. The three-man anonymous panel consisted of a front-office executive, a salary cap expert and an agent. Executive: 1 year, $3-3.5 million with incentives to reach $5 million Salary Cap Expert: 3 years, $14-17 million with $6-8 million guaranteed Agent: 1 year, $3-4 million with incentives to reach $5.5 million
OCinBuffalo Posted June 15, 2015 Posted June 15, 2015 (edited) Interesting read, Mathis may not get as much as he wanted. http://www.nj.com/giants/index.ssf/2015/06/whats_evan_mathis_worth_on_the_open_market_exec_ag.html ...I asked for some opinions and had three sources guestimate what Mathis would land on the open market. The three-man anonymous panel consisted of a front-office executive, a salary cap expert and an agent. Executive: 1 year, $3-3.5 million with incentives to reach $5 million Salary Cap Expert: 3 years, $14-17 million with $6-8 million guaranteed Agent: 1 year, $3-4 million with incentives to reach $5.5 million Which are all less than he would have made had he stayed in Philly, and, as I said above: this is the price you pay for losing a holdout. Everybody else in the NFL, and these 3 guys, which include an agent, expects the "lost your holdout" penalty to be put into full effect. Since that's true, we shouldn't be expecting the Bills to pay $24 mil over 3 years or whatever, and criticizing Whaley when he doesn't do that , because that's not how the NFL works. Edited June 15, 2015 by OCinBuffalo
Hapless Bills Fan Posted June 15, 2015 Posted June 15, 2015 @AroundTheNFL Drew Rosenhaus says 'at least a half a dozen' teams are interested in Evan Mathis http://at.nfl.com/b6i6w8L Of course Rosenhaus says so. Note how he also declines to name them and says they'll "take their time"
FLFan Posted June 15, 2015 Posted June 15, 2015 Of course Rosenhaus says so. Note how he also declines to name them and says they'll "take their time" Apparently no team is willing to pay his asking price yet. He is no doubt hoping some team will get desperate with a key injury as camp rolls around. Could well happen, then again, maybe not.
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