DC Tom Posted June 10, 2015 Share Posted June 10, 2015 Poll finds NATO member would not support use of force against Russia, even in the event of an attack: http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-33072093 That kind-of defeats the entire purpose of NATO, really... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Azalin Posted June 10, 2015 Share Posted June 10, 2015 Poll finds NATO member would not support use of force against Russia, even in the event of an attack: http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-33072093 I was surprised to see Spain supporting it (if only by 1%), and was really surprised that Germany wouldn't. France was no surprise at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B-Man Posted June 10, 2015 Share Posted June 10, 2015 That kind-of defeats the entire purpose of NATO, really... NATO - Topic: Collective defence The principle of collective defence is at the very heart of NATO’s founding treaty. It remains a unique and enduring principle that binds its members together, committing them to protect each other and setting a spirit of solidarity within the Alliance. This principle is enshrined in Article 5 of the North Atlantic Treaty, which states that an attack on one Ally shall be considered an attack on all Allies. Just disband then.............we aren't getting our money's worth anyway. The United States contributes between one-fifth and one-quarter of NATO's budget. In FY2010 that contribution totaled $711.8 million. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DC Tom Posted June 10, 2015 Share Posted June 10, 2015 I was surprised to see Spain supporting it (if only by 1%), and was really surprised that Germany wouldn't. France was no surprise at all. Germany's fought Russia within living memory. They know what it means. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Azalin Posted June 10, 2015 Share Posted June 10, 2015 Germany's fought Russia within living memory. They know what it means. No doubt that's true, but I would have thought that the subsequent division of Germany would have left a bitter taste in their more recent memory. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
truth on hold Posted June 10, 2015 Share Posted June 10, 2015 (edited) No doubt that's true, but I would have thought that the subsequent division of Germany would have left a bitter taste in their more recent memory. Your brainwashed into just viewing responses in isolation. How about these losers are more acutely aware of their own past failed provocations, alterior motives and atrocities, and the consequences? Germany's failed invastion of Russia The operation was driven by Adolf Hitler's ideological desire to conquer the Soviet territories as outlined in his 1925 manifesto Mein Kampf The German forces captured millions of Soviet prisoners who were not granted protections stipulated in the Geneva Conventions. Most of them never returned alive. Germany deliberately starved the prisoners to death as part of a "Hunger Plan" that aimed to reduce the population of Eastern Europe and then re-populate it with ethnic Germans. http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Barbarossa France's failed invasion of Russia The French Invasion of Russia, known in Russia as the Patriotic War of 1812 (Russian: Отечественная война 1812 года; Otechestvennaya Voyna 1812 Goda) and in France as the Russian Campaign (French: Campagne de Russie), began on 24 June 1812 when Napoleon's Grande Armée crossed the Neman River in an attempt to engage and defeat the Russian army.[8] Napoleon hoped to compel Tsar Alexander I of Russia to cease trading with British merchants through proxies in an effort to pressure the United Kingdom to sue for peace.[9] The official political aim of the campaign was to liberate Poland from the threat of Russia. Napoleon named the campaign the Second Polish War to gain favor with the Poles and provide a political pretense for his actions.[10] The Grande Armée was a very large force, numbering 680,000 soldiers....His troops exhausted, with few rations, no winter clothing, and his remaining horses in poor condition, Napoleon was forced to retreat. He hoped to reach supplies at Smolensk and later at Vilnius. In the weeks that followed the Grande Armée starved and suffered from the onset of the Russian Winter. Lack of food and fodder for the horses, hypothermia from the bitter cold and persistent attacks upon isolated troops from Russian peasants and Cossacks led to great losses in men, and a general loss of discipline and cohesion in the army. When the remnants of Napoleon's army crossed the Berezina River in November, only 27,000 fit soldiers remained; the Grand Armée had lost some 380,000 men dead and 100,000 captured.[17] http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/French_invasion_of_Russia Edited June 10, 2015 by JTSP Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deranged Rhino Posted June 10, 2015 Author Share Posted June 10, 2015 Your brainwashed into just viewing responses in isolation. How about these losers are more acutely aware of their own past failed provocations, alterior motives and atrocities, and the consequences? Germany's failed invastion of Russia The German forces captured millions of Soviet prisoners who were not granted protections stipulated in the Geneva Conventions. Most of them never returned alive. Germany deliberately starved the prisoners to death as part of a "Hunger Plan" that aimed to reduce the population of Eastern Europe and then re-populate it with ethnic Germans. http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Barbarossa France's failed invasion of Russia The French Invasion of Russia, known in Russia as the Patriotic War of 1812 (Russian: Отечественная война 1812 года; Otechestvennaya Voyna 1812 Goda) and in France as the Russian Campaign (French: Campagne de Russie), began on 24 June 1812 when Napoleon's Grande Armée crossed the Neman River in an attempt to engage and defeat the Russian army.[8] Napoleon hoped to compel Tsar Alexander I of Russia to cease trading with British merchants through proxies in an effort to pressure the United Kingdom to sue for peace.[9] The official political aim of the campaign was to liberate Poland from the threat of Russia. Napoleon named the campaign the Second Polish War to gain favor with the Poles and provide a political pretense for his actions.[10] The Grande Armée was a very large force, numbering 680,000 soldiers....His troops exhausted, with few rations, no winter clothing, and his remaining horses in poor condition, Napoleon was forced to retreat. He hoped to reach supplies at Smolensk and later at Vilnius. In the weeks that followed the Grande Armée starved and suffered from the onset of the Russian Winter. Lack of food and fodder for the horses, hypothermia from the bitter cold and persistent attacks upon isolated troops from Russian peasants and Cossacks led to great losses in men, and a general loss of discipline and cohesion in the army. When the remnants of Napoleon's army crossed the Berezina River in November, only 27,000 fit soldiers remained; the Grand Armée had lost some 380,000 men dead and 100,000 captured.[17] http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/French_invasion_of_Russia I don't even know what to say to this nonsense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chef Jim Posted June 10, 2015 Share Posted June 10, 2015 I don't even know what to say to this nonsense. I'm going with this............. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deranged Rhino Posted June 10, 2015 Author Share Posted June 10, 2015 I'm going with this............. Probably for the best. It reads (the words in English at least) as if JTSP is saying NATO won't invade Russia because of history... which is so far beside the point he may as well be cribbing Gator. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DC Tom Posted June 10, 2015 Share Posted June 10, 2015 I don't even know what to say to this nonsense. Gotta love wikipedia warriors. Particularly the ones with alterior motives. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chef Jim Posted June 10, 2015 Share Posted June 10, 2015 Probably for the best. It reads (the words in English at least) as if JTSP is saying NATO won't invade Russia because of history... which is so far beside the point he may as well be cribbing Gator. No what I think he was saying was "oh yeah, you think Russia is mean look at all the bad things Germany (Nazis BTW) and France (over 200 years ago) did to Russia. Those meanies!!" Gator childish. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
truth on hold Posted June 10, 2015 Share Posted June 10, 2015 I'm going with this............. The populices of those countries suffering devastating defeats often turn on their own leaders and policies, especially when the consequences are on their own soil (I.e. Japan blaming itself for America's nuclear response). Also in europe and Asia where most countries have been around a lot longer than ours, they view current events in much longer historical context Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deranged Rhino Posted June 10, 2015 Author Share Posted June 10, 2015 The populices of those countries suffering devastating defeats often turn on their own leaders and policies, especially when the consequences are on their own soil (I.e. Japan blaming itself for America's nuclear response). Also in europe and Asia where most countries have been around a lot longer than ours, they view current events in much longer historical context No one questions that. What we question is YOUR context because it's wrong. No one, NO ONE, is talking about NATO invading Russia. The poll in question was about whether or not Europeans would support a NATO ally if THEY were attacked by Russia. It's a massive difference from what you're positing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DC Tom Posted June 10, 2015 Share Posted June 10, 2015 The populices of those countries suffering devastating defeats often turn on their own leaders and policies, especially when the consequences are on their own soil (I.e. Japan blaming itself for America's nuclear response). Also in europe and Asia where most countries have been around a lot longer than ours, they view current events in much longer historical context So Germany and France don't support NATO because they've turned on Hitler and Napoleon, respectively. You. !@#$ing. Idiot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deranged Rhino Posted June 10, 2015 Author Share Posted June 10, 2015 Gotta love wikipedia warriors. Particularly the ones with alterior motives. :lol: So Germany and France don't support NATO because they've turned on Hitler and Napoleon, respectively. You. !@#$ing. Idiot. It makes his ODB trolling seem smart by comparison. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chef Jim Posted June 10, 2015 Share Posted June 10, 2015 The populices of those countries suffering devastating defeats often turn on their own leaders and policies, especially when the consequences are on their own soil (I.e. Japan blaming itself for America's nuclear response). Also in europe and Asia where most countries have been around a lot longer than ours, they view current events in much longer historical context I stand corrected. What you were actually saying was a hell of a lot dumber than I had originally thought you were saying. Sorry for giving you some sort of benefit of the doubt. I change my rating to a solid :wacko: rating. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
truth on hold Posted June 10, 2015 Share Posted June 10, 2015 I stand corrected. What you were actually saying was a hell of a lot dumber than I had originally thought you were saying. Sorry for giving you some sort of benefit of the doubt. I change my rating to a solid :wacko: rating. You look constipated Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deranged Rhino Posted June 10, 2015 Author Share Posted June 10, 2015 You look constipated No, that's your brain. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chef Jim Posted June 10, 2015 Share Posted June 10, 2015 You look constipated I was fine until I read your post. BTW I'm not constipated today. I overdosed on jalapenos last night. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
....lybob Posted June 10, 2015 Share Posted June 10, 2015 Remember the NATO response when a Turkish ship was attacked in international waters by Israel Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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