Rob's House Posted June 8, 2015 Share Posted June 8, 2015 what is Putin's grand strategy Just because his strategy is not immediately apparent to you does not mean he doesn't have one, and it would be both irresponsible and idiotic for anyone in power to assume as much. He's a calculating and dominating man which should be concerning to us. Especially since the guy we're sending to deal with him is a gutless talk show host playing the part of president. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
truth on hold Posted June 8, 2015 Share Posted June 8, 2015 (edited) Ukraine wasn't part of a "Putin" strategy. It was existential for them not letting a border country with longstanding ties fall to a US/EU coalition for economic reasons, and NATO for military reasons. Russia's reaction was wholly predictable. The shocker would have been if they stood by and did nothing. Edited June 8, 2015 by JTSP Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DC Tom Posted June 8, 2015 Share Posted June 8, 2015 Ukraine wasn't part of a "Putin" strategy. It was existential for them not letting a border country with longstanding ties fall to a US/EU coalition for economic reasons, and NATO for military reasons. Russia's reaction was wholly predictable. The shocker would have been if they stood by and did nothing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dorkington Posted June 8, 2015 Share Posted June 8, 2015 Ideological differences aside, pretty much every developed nation and their head of state understands that a modern large scale conflict between developed nations would end up in catastrophe for the world at large. Hence why we basically only fight developing nations, or limited tech terrorist groups. There's too much to lose for the US, Russia, China, etc to get involved in wars among each other. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
....lybob Posted June 8, 2015 Share Posted June 8, 2015 Ideological differences aside, pretty much every developed nation and their head of state understands that a modern large scale conflict between developed nations would end up in catastrophe for the world at large. Hence why we basically only fight developing nations, or limited tech terrorist groups. There's too much to lose for the US, Russia, China, etc to get involved in wars among each other. True, but there is always brinkmanship and misjudgement to consider - a lot of people including people on this board wants America to talk tougher and to act tougher. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3rdnlng Posted June 8, 2015 Share Posted June 8, 2015 True, but there is always brinkmanship and misjudgement to consider - a lot of people including people on this board wants America to talk tougher and to act tougher. Yes, that "I'll be freer to suck your unit after the elections" talk is sort of embarrassing to us. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiberius Posted June 8, 2015 Share Posted June 8, 2015 By this point, most of us have gotten over the fanciful idea that we’re dealing with any sort of honest broker in Russia and that everything can be set to rights with a magical reset button. But Putin is a tough nut to crack. As Carly Fiorina pointed out during CPAC this year, she’s met with the Russian leader multiple times and he’s gifted at smiling at you in a charming fashion while lying to your face. He’s also mastered the art of denying the obvious during interviews and insisting that the west is making everything up while looking for all the world like a hurt puppy who can’t believe that you’re implying such things about him. Meanwhile, people continue to die in Ukraine. Still, Putin is keeping up the international charm offensive. He’s meeting with the Pope this week and will no doubt continue his attempts to look like some sort of peacemaker. And when he’s not flexing his military muscle, he’s using Russia’s diminished but still substantial financial clout to meddle in European affairs. He’s been dangling some tempting offers in front of Greece to try to draw them away from NATO and the west as they deal with their financial collapse. He’s never taken any sort of seriously hard line against Iran, North Korea or any other dangerous regimes. The list goes on. We’re going to need someone who can deal with this guy in the White House. Putin may be an evil, terrible person, but when it comes to global power maneuvers, he’s playing three dimensional chess while we’re still playing checkers. http://hotair.com/archives/2015/06/07/putin-you-think-id-attack-nato-you-must-be-insane/ Newsflash: The Cold War is over and Putin a nothing Ukraine wasn't part of a "Putin" strategy. It was existential for them not letting a border country with longstanding ties fall to a US/EU coalition for economic reasons, and NATO for military reasons. Russia's reaction was wholly predictable. The shocker would have been if they stood by and did nothing. Or maybe there were just a lot of Russians inside the Ukraine and they didn't want to be there? This is nothing new with Europe or Iraq for that matter. People's mixed into the "wrong" country Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deranged Rhino Posted June 8, 2015 Author Share Posted June 8, 2015 Ukraine wasn't part of a "Putin" strategy. It was existential for them not letting a border country with longstanding ties fall to a US/EU coalition for economic reasons, and NATO for military reasons. Russia's reaction was wholly predictable. The shocker would have been if they stood by and did nothing. You really do want to retake your dunce crown from Gatorman, don't you? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jauronimo Posted June 8, 2015 Share Posted June 8, 2015 Ukraine wasn't part of a "Putin" strategy. It was existential for them not letting a border country with longstanding ties fall to a US/EU coalition for economic reasons, and NATO for military reasons. Russia's reaction was wholly predictable. The shocker would have been if they stood by and did nothing. It certainly couldn't have been opportunism because, historically, Russia has had NO interest in Crimea or warm water ports in general, for that matter. Its not like they've fought other wars over control of the Crimean peninsula. No, Russian interest in the Ukraine began a few months ago. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deranged Rhino Posted June 8, 2015 Author Share Posted June 8, 2015 Putin: "I invite you to publish a world map and mark all the US military bases on it. You will see the difference between Russia and America." Let me tell you something else now, and you can decide for yourselves what to publish and what to leave out. What are the roots of the Ukrainian crisis? Its cause seems to be completely disproportionate to what has become an utter tragedy today claiming many lives in southeast Ukraine. What sparked the crisis? Former President Viktor Yanukovych said that he needed to think about signing Ukraine’s Association Agreement with the EU, possibly make some changes and hold consultations with Russia, its major trade and economic partner. In this connection or under this pretext riots broke out in Kiev. They were actively supported both by our European and American partners. Then a coup d’état followed – a totally anti-constitutional act. The new authorities announced that they were going to sign the Association Agreement but would delay its implementation until January 1, 2016. The question is: what was the coup d’état for? Why did they need to escalate the situation to a civil war? The result is exactly the same. What is more, at the end of 2013 we were ready to give Ukraine $15 billion as a state loan supported by a further $5 billion via commercial banks; plus we already gave it $3 billion during the year and promised to cut gas prices by half if they paid regularly. We were not at all against Ukraine signing an Association Agreement with the European Union. But, of course, we wanted to participate in the final decisions, meaning that Ukraine was then and is still now, today, a member of the CIS free trade area, and we have mutual obligations as its members. How is it possible to completely ignore this, to treat it with utter disrespect? I simply cannot understand that. The result that we have – a coup d’état, a civil war, hundreds of lives lost, devastated economy and social sphere, a four-year $17.5 billion loan promised to Ukraine by the IMF and complete disintegration of economic ties with Russia. But Russian and Ukrainian economies are very deeply interconnected. http://www.corriere.it/english/15_giugno_07/vladimir-putin-interview-to-the-italian-newspaper-corriere-sera-44c5a66c-0d12-11e5-8612-1eda5b996824.shtml Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiberius Posted June 8, 2015 Share Posted June 8, 2015 You really do want to retake your dunce crown from Gatorman, don't you? The bitterness! You are coming close to being the angriest poster on the board, and that's saying something! You can use as many emoticons you want, but it doesn't hide your anger Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deranged Rhino Posted June 8, 2015 Author Share Posted June 8, 2015 The bitterness! You are coming close to being the angriest poster on the board, and that's saying something! You can use as many emoticons you want, but it doesn't hide your anger Your ability to judge other people's tone and mood is as spot on as your ability to comprehend basic English. In other words, it's lacking. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiberius Posted June 8, 2015 Share Posted June 8, 2015 Your ability to judge other people's tone and mood is as spot on as your ability to comprehend basic English. In other words, it's lacking. You go Girl! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DC Tom Posted June 8, 2015 Share Posted June 8, 2015 The bitterness! You are coming close to being the angriest poster on the board, and that's saying something! You can use as many emoticons you want, but it doesn't hide your anger You mean "obfuscate" his "anger." If I had a nickel for every word you misuse... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deranged Rhino Posted June 8, 2015 Author Share Posted June 8, 2015 You go Girl! Your capitalization needs some work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
....lybob Posted June 8, 2015 Share Posted June 8, 2015 Putin: "I invite you to publish a world map and mark all the US military bases on it. You will see the difference between Russia and America." http://www.corriere.it/english/15_giugno_07/vladimir-putin-interview-to-the-italian-newspaper-corriere-sera-44c5a66c-0d12-11e5-8612-1eda5b996824.shtml That was an interesting read, Good find Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
truth on hold Posted June 8, 2015 Share Posted June 8, 2015 (edited) It certainly couldn't have been opportunism because, historically, Russia has had NO interest in Crimea or warm water ports in general, for that matter. Its not like they've fought other wars over control of the Crimean peninsula. No, Russian interest in the Ukraine began a few months ago.It's extraordunary the way the western media has gotten behind the theme that Putin is a madman bent on reuniting large swaths of soviet/russian territory rather than a rational actor responding to what any country would see as an existential border threat. Even journals like Psychology Today have gotten into the act with a hack job that, you guessed it, compares him to hitler ____________ The Danger That Lurks Inside Vladimir Putin's Brain He wrote in his biography (link is external): I consider it to be my sacred duty to unify the people of Russia, to rally citizens around clear aims and tasks, and to remember every day and every minute that we have one Motherland, one people and one future. There is something about the metre and cadence of that One Motherland, one people, one future which sends shivers down my spine. https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/the-winner-effect/201403/the-danger-lurks-inside-vladimir-putins-brain ______________ Seriously what leader doesn't talk like that, about uniting people? How about "US exceptionalism" we keep hearing from politicians at home? And policy matter, if we really thought Putin had this agenda, the dumbest thing to do would be to give him pretext to act by destabliziing Ukraine. By analogy, what would US response be to a Russian led uprising in Mexico and Canada to thwart NAFTA? Edited June 8, 2015 by JTSP Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pine Barrens Mafia Posted June 9, 2015 Share Posted June 9, 2015 It's extraordunary the way the western media has gotten behind the theme that Putin is a madman bent on reuniting large swaths of soviet/russian territory rather than a rational actor responding to what any country would see as an existential border threat. Even journals like Psychology Today have gotten into the act with a hack job that, you guessed it, compares him to hitler ____________ The Danger That Lurks Inside Vladimir Putin's Brain He wrote in his biography (link is external): I consider it to be my sacred duty to unify the people of Russia, to rally citizens around clear aims and tasks, and to remember every day and every minute that we have one Motherland, one people and one future. There is something about the metre and cadence of that One Motherland, one people, one future which sends shivers down my spine. https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/the-winner-effect/201403/the-danger-lurks-inside-vladimir-putins-brain ______________ Seriously what leader doesn't talk like that, about uniting people? How about "US exceptionalism" we keep hearing from politicians at home? And policy matter, if we really thought Putin had this agenda, the dumbest thing to do would be to give him pretext to act by destabliziing Ukraine. By analogy, what would US response be to a Russian led uprising in Mexico and Canada to thwart NAFTA? Now I've read it all. Putin as rational actor. The Chinese are rational actors. There's nothing rational about Putin. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GG Posted June 9, 2015 Share Posted June 9, 2015 It certainly couldn't have been opportunism because, historically, Russia has had NO interest in Crimea or warm water ports in general, for that matter. Its not like they've fought other wars over control of the Crimean peninsula. No, Russian interest in the Ukraine began a few months ago. Or that the entire Black Sea fleet is stationed there as per agreement with Ukraine. A more thoughtful and strategic leader could have annexed Crimea without a peep from the world and a hell of a lot less trouble on the peninsula. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deranged Rhino Posted June 10, 2015 Author Share Posted June 10, 2015 Poll finds NATO member would not support use of force against Russia, even in the event of an attack: http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-33072093 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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