TakeYouToTasker Posted June 4, 2015 Posted June 4, 2015 (edited) You missed my second question: "Can you explain to someone who is not smart enough to know that "sometimes process is more important than outcome" why that is so and point to a case which illustrates that please?" Care to share your wisdom on this one with me? Also explain how is "process" was bad? I wish more of our "leaders" would use lessons learned from Viet Nam in making decisions on gong to war. Tell me more about how I don't know about the positions of my local politicians. Chafee isn't learning from any "lessons of Vietnam", whatever that means. Chafee is a pacifist. He doesn't believe in waging as a last resort, he doesn't believe in waging war at all. I know this because he's spoken about it many times in local formats. He was my Senator and Governor here in Rhode Island, and also served as a town councilman and mayor locally; and I'm very familiar with his stances and positions. Edited June 4, 2015 by TakeYouToTasker
reddogblitz Posted June 4, 2015 Posted June 4, 2015 (edited) Chafee isn't learning from any "lessons of Vietnam", whatever that means. Chafee is a pacifist. He doesn't believe in waging as a last resort, he doesn't believe in waging war at all. I know this because he's spoken about it many times in local formats. He was my Senator and Governor here in Rhode Island, and also served as a town councilman and mayor locally; and I'm very familiar with his stances and positions. If I misrepresented I apologize. I was going by what you had said: "Chafee's speech condemning going to war included language about how it was sad that we would go to war again so soon after leaving Vietnam. Seriously." From that I figured he was using some lessons learned in Viet Nam. My bad. He's a pacifist. Cool. I'm good with that.too. I stand by my original stance that he made the right decision for whatever reason. He made the right decision. I applaud him for that. Edited June 4, 2015 by reddogblitz
TakeYouToTasker Posted June 4, 2015 Posted June 4, 2015 If I misrepresented I apologize. I was going by what you had said: "Chafee's speech condemning going to war included language about how it was sad that we would go to war again so soon after leaving Vietnam. Seriously." From that I figured he was using some lessons learned in Viet Nam. My bad. He's a pacifist. Cool. I'm good with that.too. I stand by my original stance that he made the right decision for whatever reason. He made the right decision. I applaud him for that. Your feels about Iraq aside, you believe it wise to have an individual who has stated on numerous occasions that he doesn't believe in going to war because he is a pacifist as the Commander and Chief of our armed forces?
reddogblitz Posted June 4, 2015 Posted June 4, 2015 Your feels about Iraq aside, you believe it wise to have an individual who has stated on numerous occasions that he doesn't believe in going to war because he is a pacifist as the Commander and Chief of our armed forces? I'll take a pacifist president any day over the war mongering presidents we've had over the last 50 years including Kennedy, LBJ, Nixon, Bush I, Clinton, Bush II, and Obama. None of the countries in any of those wars were any threat to us or our freedom. All we have to show for them is carnage, death, brain scrambled veterans, massive debt, and new enemies. We're making enemies faster than we can kill them.
TakeYouToTasker Posted June 4, 2015 Posted June 4, 2015 I don't care what someone calls them self as long as on matters of life and death they make the right decisions. Getting caught up in labels is asinine. We create enemies with ill conceived intervention and getting whored by our "allies"Getting caught up with very specific language with very specific meaning is asinine? So you're in the "don't obsfucate with details" camp then? I'll take a pacifist president any day over the war mongering presidents we've had over the last 50 years including Kennedy, LBJ, Nixon, Bush I, Clinton, Bush II, and Obama. None of the countries in any of those wars were any threat to us or our freedom. All we have to show for them is carnage, death, brain scrambled veterans, massive debt, and new enemies. We're making enemies faster than we can kill them. I'm not sure you understand how the US economy, the global economy, strategic alliances, power vacuums, or bad actors work.
reddogblitz Posted June 4, 2015 Posted June 4, 2015 I'm not sure you understand how the US economy, the global economy, strategic alliances, power vacuums, or bad actors work. Obviously you don't now how blowback works.
DC Tom Posted June 5, 2015 Posted June 5, 2015 Obviously you don't now how blowback works. Is that when the Humvees backfire?
truth on hold Posted June 5, 2015 Posted June 5, 2015 Is that when the Humvees backfire? No it looks like this
fansince88 Posted June 5, 2015 Posted June 5, 2015 (edited) Don't like him, BTW DC Tom, going to get back here like you suggested a while back right after you called me an idiot....no not that time. So, why don't I like him? Because he is a washed up old man and we need to put this country in reverse from where the nut jobs that have run it since Reagan have steered it. We have become a pansy country that draws a line in the sand and then erases that line and takes a step back only to draw a new one. No it looks like this So what is blowback? This is what I call letting them take the fight to us... Edited June 5, 2015 by fansince88
IDBillzFan Posted June 5, 2015 Posted June 5, 2015 No it looks like this No...that's what being a pacifist gets you.
truth on hold Posted June 5, 2015 Posted June 5, 2015 (edited) So what is blowback? This is what I call letting them take the fight to us... Yeah we really "took the fight to them" by: - removing a democratically elected leader in Iran - enabling Israel's heinous occupation of an indigenous people - supporting the trillion dollar house of Saud's Wahabi extremism - invading Iraq on false premises - destablizing Syria, and along with that with invading Iraq giving rise to ISIS Edited June 5, 2015 by JTSP
TakeYouToTasker Posted June 5, 2015 Posted June 5, 2015 Obviously you don't now how blowback works. Oh, by all means, presume whatever you'd like about my geo-political positions, easily searchable. (I am, in practical terms, largely a Ron Paul guy). I'm aware of where we are, and why we're here. I am, however, opposed to pulling up stakes and creating a power vacuum in the world; because that's not safe, neither is it viable nor responsible to US citizens, or our friends around the globe. We shouldn't have picked it up and broken it, but we did, and by doing so, we bought it. Your policy preferences are nothing more than an unrealistic wind back the clock wish list. We live here and now, not 60 years ago, nor 20, nor 10, nor 5. No...that's what being a pacifist gets you. To be fair, blowback is real, but there is no reset button. Our mistakes have purchased this, but we can't just walk away now, as some have suggested. We must do the hard things now, and win the wars, and then pursue more prudent policy in the future.
RunTheBall Posted June 5, 2015 Posted June 5, 2015 I've been a Rhode Islander for 13 years. This guy is an absolute disaster. He could be the first elected (33% in a 3 way split vote) governor of a state who is psychotic, meaning he does not live in the same reality the rest of us do. Your jaw would hit the floor with some of the things that came out of his mouth, wondering "what planet does this guy live on". Our economy in RI is a disaster, yet this guy spent 2 years trying to get drivers licenses for illegal immigrants and trying to stop the Feds from using the death penalty on a guy who murdered a business owner/father as he was depositing some cash. The Missing Link did absolutely nothing in his 4 years as Governor. He didn't run for reelection because there was zero chance he could get re-elected. The only positive thing I can stay about him is he wasn't corrupt, which puts him in the less than 1% of RI politicians. He's simply one of the most clueless individuals I've had the misfortune to have to listen to.
reddogblitz Posted June 5, 2015 Posted June 5, 2015 (edited) To be fair, blowback is real, but there is no reset button. Our mistakes have purchased this, but we can't just walk away now, as some have suggested. We must do the hard things now, and win the wars, and then pursue more prudent policy in the future. I see your point to a degree. How will we know when we have won? Edited June 5, 2015 by reddogblitz
TakeYouToTasker Posted June 5, 2015 Posted June 5, 2015 (edited) I see your point to a degree. How will we know when we have won? In this sort of engagement either the world wins, or the world loses. Events have been set in motion that ensure this. I honestly can't give you victory conditions, much less a time line, but we both know what losing looks like. Edited June 5, 2015 by TakeYouToTasker
reddogblitz Posted June 5, 2015 Posted June 5, 2015 In this sort of engagement either the world wins, or the world loses. Events have been set in motion that ensure this. I honestly can't give you victory conditions, much less a time line, but we both know what losing looks like. I don't know. Please tell me what it looks like. Its a totally different world over there. Its a religeous/tribal war. And its not just 2 groups and they all want to kill each other. We nor anyone else for that matter can make them like each other. If or when we do win, the top will blow off of it when we leave. Just like what is happening now.
TakeYouToTasker Posted June 5, 2015 Posted June 5, 2015 I don't know. Please tell me what it looks like. Its a totally different world over there. Its a religeous/tribal war. And its not just 2 groups and they all want to kill each other. We nor anyone else for that matter can make them like each other. If or when we do win, the top will blow off of it when we leave. Just like what is happening now. You believe they're isolated? Jihadism doesn't have global reach? Beyond that, you believe these events happen in a vacuum? What happens to energy markets? What happens to the domestic economy?
reddogblitz Posted June 5, 2015 Posted June 5, 2015 (edited) You believe they're isolated? Jihadism doesn't have global reach? Beyond that, you believe these events happen in a vacuum? What happens to energy markets? What happens to the domestic economy? I don't know, Jihadism hasn't had global reach so far. Eventually ISIS will over extend themselves and thus be less powerful. See the British and Roman empires. Of course I don't think they'll get that far. If we saved all that Money we're wasting over there and used it here to develp and use renewable energy like Brazil and Germany are doing the oil market would be a total non issue for us. This idea that we have to spend massive money and human life because we think someone may do something to us some day is nuts IMHO. That philosophy has greatly contributed to where we are now. I think ISIS doesn't necessarily want to come here to get us, they're itching for us to come over there. If we do, this will be our first ground war against a real army with real weapons and a desire to win at all costs since Viet Nam with similar results I suspect. Edited June 5, 2015 by reddogblitz
truth on hold Posted June 5, 2015 Posted June 5, 2015 (edited) I don't know, Jihadism hasn't had global reach so far. Eventually ISIS will over extend themselves and thus be less powerful. See the British and Roman empires. Of course I don't think they'll get that far. If we saved all that Money we're wasting over there and used it here to develp and use renewable energy like Brazil and Germany are doing the oil market would be a total non issue for us. This idea that we have to spend massive money and human life because we think someone may do something to us some day is nuts IMHO. That philosophy has greatly contributed to where we are now. I think ISIS doesn't necessarily want to come here to get us, they're itching for us to come over there. If we do, this will be our first ground war against a real army with real weapons and a desire to win at all costs since Viet Nam with similar results I suspect. The main cheerleaders for US intervention don't believe that either, the foreign interests (saudis, israelis, etc) want us supporting their wars, the defense lobbyists have an economic interest. They sell that crap about "global jihad coming to America" to pacify paranoid jack asses like TYTT, sitting at home with a gun pointed at the door thinking the boogeyman is out there. as if there's anything in that run down trailer of his anyone would want anyway Edited June 5, 2015 by JTSP
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