Who is going to be the biggest surprise Bill this year?

[BmarvB]

Preston Brown. I like this guy.

[LB3]

Ha ha, I actually gave him credit earlier in here. He is on the bubble like all of those guys. I think that Easley is safe after they just paid him. 1 or 2 of Hogan, Goodwin and Lewis will make the team.

I agree. I think Lewis will be the odd man out because Goodwin can burn but also has pretty solid hands and Hogan is just dependable.

 

I enjoyed your Hogan crusade. It was one of the funniest TBD feuds. Right up there with Jauronimo trolling Mrags.

[Kirby Jackson]

I agree. I think Lewis will be the odd man out because Goodwin can burn but also has pretty solid hands and Hogan is just dependable.

 

I enjoyed your Hogan crusade. It was one of the funniest TBD feuds. Right up there with Jauronimo trolling Mrags.

I still don't think that he is very good but he belongs on an NFL roster.

[San-O]

This guy! I smell PLAYOFFS!

 

http://www.billsdaily.com/depthchart/

 

 

http://www.nfl.com/player/alexkupper/2541847/profile

[Direhard Fan]

I was going to pick but you guys picked so many I can' decide. All I want is for us to win. It's a team sport. May all have a great season. When the bug strikes may we have great back ups. That will define who the guy is.

[Rocky Landing]

 

Not to me. I think Goodwin is better than Hogan, more useful. Hogan is having a good off season from the coachs' reports, he'll need to carry that over into camp to make the team. He's got a chance, as much of one as Goodwin who's bugaboo is his health. Lewis is a PS candidate unless he blows the competition out of the water.

 

Goodwin, Hogan, Lewis -- in that order for me headed into camp. We'll reassess after the first few weeks.

I think that Lewis gets cut. These guys are going to use Goodwin it sounds like. He is extremely valuable to a team that wants to run the ball. He keeps guys out of the box. MG is never healthy or he would not even be on the bubble IMO.

I agree. I think Lewis will be the odd man out because Goodwin can burn but also has pretty solid hands and Hogan is just dependable.

 

I enjoyed your Hogan crusade. It was one of the funniest TBD feuds. Right up there with Jauronimo trolling Mrags.

There has always seemed to be a lot of love for Goodwin on this site, and never much for Hogan (IMO). But, Goodwin caught one ball last season. One out of the nine times it was thrown to him. Hogan, on the other hand, got significantly better from '13 to '14, and appears to have continued that trend coming into '15. I have a hard time seeing any reason why someone would consider Goodwin more valuable than Hogan, especially with Harvin, and Watkins on the roster, who are both significant down-field threats. Hogan has been far more productive than Goodwin.

 

Regarding Lewis, I think there is good reason to believe he should make the final 53. With the amount of depth we have at WR, we can afford it, and we don't have a serious contender over 6'1". Lewis is 6'4". Whereas Goodwin's strength (speed) is extant in other players, Lewis' height makes him unique in our WR corp. And, as a rookie, I don't think he needs to "blow the competition out of the water" to be considered a worthy project. If he performs well throughout TC (and early indications are that he should, no?), then putting him on the PC would likely mean he would be gone.

Edited June 10, 2015 by Rocky Landing

[Deranged Rhino]

There has always seemed to be a lot of love for Goodwin on this site, and never much for Hogan (IMO). But, Goodwin caught one ball last season. One out of the nine times it was thrown to him. Hogan, on the other hand, got significantly better from '13 to '14, and appears to have continued that trend coming into '15. I have a hard time seeing any reason why someone would consider Goodwin more valuable than Hogan, especially with Harvin, and Watkins on the roster, who are both significant down-field threats. Hogan has been far more productive than Goodwin.

 

Regarding Lewis, I think there is good reason to believe he should make the final 53. With the amount of depth we have at WR, we can afford it, and we don't have a serious condenser over 6'1". Lewis is 6'4". Whereas Goodwin's strength (speed) is extant in other players, Lewis' height makes him unique in our WR corp. And, as a rookie, I don't think he needs to "blow the competition out of the water" to be considered a worthy project. If he performs well throughout TC (and early indications are that he should, no?), then putting him on the PC would likely mean he would be gone.

 

The Hogan debate has been ongoing throughout the off season. I understand where you're coming from, and if you just look at the stats your opinion holds a lot of water. The people on the other side of the Hogan opinion have made the point (Kirby was the first to bring it up I believe) that Hogan's production last year came about because defenses knew Hogan wasn't going to beat them -- and he didn't most times. That doesn't mean Hogan's no good, he's clearly raw and developed nicely from when he entered the league, it just means his stats are misleading. Factor in Marrone's handling of the offense and the team, and it becomes a less persuasive argument to point out Goodwin's lack of production in '14. We will never know how much of that was because he was "injured" or if he just had a case of Marrone's Disease (TM by KtD).

 

When I watched Hogan last year, I saw a guy who consistently came up short on his routes which cost the team a lot of first downs. He had some great moments as well (the catch in the Minny game being his best). But he doesn't do anything that Goodwin doesn't do, he just does it slower. Goodwin has, in my opinion (can't stress opinion enough) been given the label "injury prone" too soon in his career in Buffalo. No one questions his abilities. Despite some who think he's just Parish 2.0, Goodwin is faster than Hogan, has as good if not better hands, and he blocks. Hogan blocks, probably runs better routes (though, like I said, he has a knack for cutting them off short), but defenses do not have to account for him as much as they do Goodwin -- and I say this with Goodwin's lack of a track record in mind to highlight the point. Opposing teams game plan around Goodwin because of his speed -- despite his not having a track record -- and they don't game plan around Hogan even with his track record. That speaks volumes to me.

 

Of course, it comes down to health for Goodwin. If what I believe to be true actually is, that he isn't injury prone, he'll make it through camp and turn a lot of heads in the process. The guy is a football player, not just a track guy. If I'm wrong (completely possible), he'll get dinged up and Hogan will take his roster spot. But I think if Hogan and Goodwin play to a draw, Goodwin gets the spot and Hogan goes looking for work.

[LB3]

There has always seemed to be a lot of love for Goodwin on this site, and never much for Hogan (IMO). But, Goodwin caught one ball last season. One out of the nine times it was thrown to him. Hogan, on the other hand, got significantly better from '13 to '14, and appears to have continued that trend coming into '15. I have a hard time seeing any reason why someone would consider Goodwin more valuable than Hogan, especially with Harvin, and Watkins on the roster, who are both significant down-field threats. Hogan has been far more productive than Goodwin.

 

Regarding Lewis, I think there is good reason to believe he should make the final 53. With the amount of depth we have at WR, we can afford it, and we don't have a serious condenser over 6'1". Lewis is 6'4". Whereas Goodwin's strength (speed) is extant in other players, Lewis' height makes him unique in our WR corp. And, as a rookie, I don't think he needs to "blow the competition out of the water" to be considered a worthy project. If he performs well throughout TC (and early indications are that he should, no?), then putting him on the PC would likely mean he would be gone.

FTR, my prediction in this thread was that Hogan will surprise. Edited June 9, 2015 by LBSeeBallLBGetBall

[Kirby Jackson]

To the Hogan - Goodwin debate (starting to think they both make it), it comes down to what Greggy said. If you were a defensive coordinator which guy would you rather defend? That's not even debatable. Can Goodwin stay healthy? Who knows but if he can he can be a difference maker.

 

The games last year where Chandler & Hogan combined for 7 catches the team was 1-6 and the only win was the Vikings game which may have been their worst game. The defenses in those 7 games allowed the ball to go to the guys that they didn't think could beat them. Goodwin is a guy that can beat you.

 

If you want an analogy with the finals on there are plenty of good basketball ones. JR Smith is really inconsistent but you have to plan for him because he can hurt you. Andre Iguodala is a more consistent player (even at this point of his career) but he won't impact a game in the same manner as JR. Good JR can take over a game even if AI is more reliable. This team has guys that they can count on (Clay, Watkins, Woods) to be the steady performers. They could use a JR Smith type that can impact the outcome of a game. JMO

Edited June 9, 2015 by Kirby Jackson

[GunnerBill]

To the Hogan - Goodwin debate (starting to think they both make it), it comes down to what Greggy said. If you were a defensive coordinator which guy would you rather defend? That's not even debatable. Can Goodwin stay healthy? Who knows but if he can he can be a difference maker.

 

The games last year where Chandler & Hogan combined for 7 catches the team was 1-6 and the only win was the Vikings game which may have been their worst game. The defenses in those 7 games allowed the ball to go to the guys that they didn't think could beat them. Goodwin is a guy that can beat you.

 

If you want an analogy with the finals on there are plenty of good basketball ones. JR Smith is really inconsistent but you have to plan for him because he can hurt you. Andre Iguodala is a more consistent player (even at this point of his career) but he won't impact a game in the same manner as JR. Good JR can take over a game even if AI is more reliable. This team has guys that they can count on (Clay, Watkins, Woods) to be the steady performers. They could use a JR Smith type that can impact the outcome of a game. JMO

 

I know you have never been a Hogan guy Kirby and there is a point there about teams letting it go to Hogan because he can't beat them, but the way I see it with Harvin, Watkins, Woods and Clay what we are now looking at now is a guy who can come in be solid and reliable as a spot guy and a backup. I know I can rely on Chris Hogan, he can do a bit of everything and he has very good hands. I don't know that I can rely on Maquise Goodwin. If I am short on top end talent his potential game breaking ability is attractive to me even with his fragility, but with the guys I have as my top 4 targets I am looking for reliability from my back up, because they are going to have to take a lot of weapons away before I am relying on Hogan to beat you.

[Rocky Landing]

 

The Hogan debate has been ongoing throughout the off season. I understand where you're coming from, and if you just look at the stats your opinion holds a lot of water. The people on the other side of the Hogan opinion have made the point (Kirby was the first to bring it up I believe) that Hogan's production last year came about because defenses knew Hogan wasn't going to beat them -- and he didn't most times. That doesn't mean Hogan's no good, he's clearly raw and developed nicely from when he entered the league, it just means his stats are misleading. Factor in Marrone's handling of the offense and the team, and it becomes a less persuasive argument to point out Goodwin's lack of production in '14. We will never know how much of that was because he was "injured" or if he just had a case of Marrone's Disease (TM by KtD).

 

When I watched Hogan last year, I saw a guy who consistently came up short on his routes which cost the team a lot of first downs. He had some great moments as well (the catch in the Minny game being his best). But he doesn't do anything that Goodwin doesn't do, he just does it slower. Goodwin has, in my opinion (can't stress opinion enough) been given the label "injury prone" too soon in his career in Buffalo. No one questions his abilities. Despite some who think he's just Parish 2.0, Goodwin is faster than Hogan, has as good if not better hands, and he blocks. Hogan blocks, probably runs better routes (though, like I said, he has a knack for cutting them off short), but defenses do not have to account for him as much as they do Goodwin -- and I say this with Goodwin's lack of a track record in mind to highlight the point. Opposing teams game plan around Goodwin because of his speed -- despite his not having a track record -- and they don't game plan around Hogan even with his track record. That speaks volumes to me.

 

Of course, it comes down to health for Goodwin. If what I believe to be true actually is, that he isn't injury prone, he'll make it through camp and turn a lot of heads in the process. The guy is a football player, not just a track guy. If I'm wrong (completely possible), he'll get dinged up and Hogan will take his roster spot. But I think if Hogan and Goodwin play to a draw, Goodwin gets the spot and Hogan goes looking for work.

This post is puzzling to me. On what do you base your assumption that opposing teams game plan around Goodwin-- who caught one out of nine passes, last season-- and don't game plan around Hogan? Hogan was third on our depth chart last season, and was on the field a lot more than Goodwin.

 

To the Hogan - Goodwin debate (starting to think they both make it), it comes down to what Greggy said. If you were a defensive coordinator which guy would you rather defend? That's not even debatable. Can Goodwin stay healthy? Who knows but if he can he can be a difference maker.

 

The games last year where Chandler & Hogan combined for 7 catches the team was 1-6 and the only win was the Vikings game which may have been their worst game. The defenses in those 7 games allowed the ball to go to the guys that they didn't think could beat them. Goodwin is a guy that can beat you.

 

If you want an analogy with the finals are on there are plenty of good basketball ones. JR Smith is really inconsistent but you have to plan for him because he can hurt you. Andre Iguodala is a more consistent player (even at this point of his career) but he won't impact a game in the same manner as JR. Good JR can take over a game even if AI is more reliable. This team has guys that they can count on (Clay, Watkins, Woods) to be the steady performers. They could use a JR Smith type that can impact the outcome of a game. JMO

Not debatable???

 

Granted, the one catch Goodwin had last year was for 42 yards. But, that was out of ten games played. I don't think there are too many DCs losing sleep over that. If I'm a DC, I'm going to be more worried about the guy that gets thrown to a lot more. I'll take dependability over an occasional (very occasional) big play any day.

[Augie]

The biggest surprise will NOT be Donald Jones or TG Graham. That's progress!

[Kirby Jackson]

 

I know you have never been a Hogan guy Kirby and there is a point there about teams letting it go to Hogan because he can't beat them, but the way I see it with Harvin, Watkins, Woods and Clay what we are now looking at now is a guy who can come in be solid and reliable as a spot guy and a backup. I know I can rely on Chris Hogan, he can do a bit of everything and he has very good hands. I don't know that I can rely on Maquise Goodwin. If I am short on top end talent his potential game breaking ability is attractive to me even with his fragility, but with the guys I have as my top 4 targets I am looking for reliability from my back up, because they are going to have to take a lot of weapons away before I am relying on Hogan to beat you.

This is the exact debate. You hit the nail on the head. For me at the bottom of my roster I would rather an impact guy. Everyone is different when it comes to that. If they are going to play 10 snaps a game for me it's definitely Goodwin. If it is 3 full games starting it is definitely Hogan.

 

It really depends on how you look at the bottom of the roster. Do you want a safety net or a guy that can impact the outcome? I think that they both make it but the discussion is interesting).

This post is puzzling to me. On what do you base your assumption that opposing teams game plan around Goodwin-- who caught one out of nine passes, last season-- and don't game plan around Hogan? Hogan was third on our depth chart last season, and was on the field a lot more than Goodwin.

 

Not debatable???

 

Granted, the one catch Goodwin had last year was for 42 yards. But, that was out of ten games played. I don't think there are too many DCs losing sleep over that. If I'm a DC, I'm going to be more worried about the guy that gets thrown to a lot more. I'll take dependability over an occasional (very occasional) big play any day.

He averages 18.1 YPC so far which is 26th all-time. I know that the sample size is small but the point is that he makes big plays. Neither guy is going to have a lot of chances (if the team is healthy). Goodwin will make more of 10 snaps than Hogan but if RW (for example) misses 3 games Hogan would be a better fit.

 

Goodwin is certainly the more feared player. Hogan is certainly the more reliable player.

[YoloinOhio]

 

He's no Dorin Dickerson.

that's Scorin Dorin to you

[Jauronimo]

that's Scorin Dorin to you

He had great chemistry with EJ. Remember that pitch and catch? Pre-season magic.

[GunnerBill]

This is the exact debate. You hit the nail on the head. For me at the bottom of my roster I would rather an impact guy. Everyone is different when it comes to that. If they are going to play 10 snaps a game for me it's definitely Goodwin. If it is 3 full games starting it is definitely Hogan.

 

It really depends on how you look at the bottom of the roster. Do you want a safety net or a guy that can impact the outcome? I think that they both make it but the discussion is interesting).

He averages 18.1 YPC so far which is 26th all-time. I know that the sample size is small but the point is that he makes big plays. Neither guy is going to have a lot of chances (if the team is healthy). Goodwin will make more of 10 snaps than Hogan but if RW (for example) misses 3 games Hogan would be a better fit.

 

Goodwin is certainly the more feared player. Hogan is certainly the more reliable player.

 

I guess I just look at it the opposite way you do.

[Kirby Jackson]

 

I guess I just look at it the opposite way you do.

A lot of people do. It makes sense both ways and that's why the conversation is interesting. It really just depends on how you view roster construction. We may see it on the OL too. I think that Richardson & Chris Williams could be viewed similarly. Randell Johnson is another guy that is at the bottom of the roster that can be an impact guy but probably not trusted to play a significant role at this point.

[Solomon Grundy]

Pro bowler, comeback player of the year, EJ man-chise....

What??? It's possible

I like it!! "Man-chise"

[Rocky Landing]

He averages 18.1 YPC so far which is 26th all-time. I know that the sample size is small but the point is that he makes big plays. Neither guy is going to have a lot of chances (if the team is healthy). Goodwin will make more of 10 snaps than Hogan but if RW (for example) misses 3 games Hogan would be a better fit.

 

Goodwin is certainly the more feared player. Hogan is certainly the more reliable player.

He averaged 42 YPC last season. But, I think we could both agree that that is quite the misleading stat.

[Kirby Jackson]

He averaged 42 YPC last season. But, I think we could both agree that that is quite the misleading stat.

In his career it is 18.1 YPC. Marrone had no idea what to do with him and MW last year.

 

Defensive coaches have talked about having to plan for him. Rex talked about it earlier in OTAs. He talked about how you have to keep a safety over the top because he will run by you. A lot of people here think that he could be a complete player and REALLY dangerous from the slot. Personally, I like his talent but think that he is too fragile for that role. I would use him strictly over the top or on a reverse. I wouldn't use him in traffic if I could avoid it.