Who is going to be the biggest surprise Bill this year?

[San-O]

 

Even if Harvin washes out, in order for Hogan to be the clear number 2 he'd have to surpass Woods (not happening) and Goodwin (also not likely to happen once camp starts in my mind) -- not to mention any dark horse candidates in the room.

 

Right, but:

 

I don't know if Goodwin makes the roster, as Easley right behind him: good special teams and just signed a contract.

 

http://www.spotrac.com/nfl/buffalo-bills/marcus-easley/

[Deranged Rhino]

 

Right, but:

 

I don't know if Goodwin makes the roster, as Easley right behind him: good special teams and just signed a contract.

 

http://www.spotrac.com/nfl/buffalo-bills/marcus-easley/

 

There's a chance both Hogan and Goodwin make the team. Easely is a lock. As is Watkins, Harvin, and Woods. Hogan, Goodwin, Lewis and the others are fighting for one or maybe two spots.

 

Hogan will be behind Goodwin when camp ends.

[Kirby Jackson]

 

Right, but:

 

I don't know if Goodwin makes the roster, as Easley right behind him: good special teams and just signed a contract.

 

http://www.spotrac.com/nfl/buffalo-bills/marcus-easley/

Easley makes it with his new contract. 1 or 2 of Hogan, Goodwin and Lewis will make the team. I think that right now it is Goodwin-Hogan-Lewis (keeping the MG and CH). Easley will play WR after all of those guys but will make the team before all of them as well.

[San-O]

Easley makes it with his new contract. 1 or 2 of Hogan, Goodwin and Lewis will make the team. I think that right now it is Goodwin-Hogan-Lewis (keeping the MG and CH). Easley will play WR after all of those guys but will make the team before all of them as well.

 

 

Alright KJ, let's pin this somewhere and have a friendly wager on the Goodwin/Easly thing. I think we know where each other stands!!

[Kirby Jackson]

 

 

Alright KJ, let's pin this somewhere and have a friendly wager on the Goodwin/Easly thing. I think we know where each other stands!!

I have no idea where you stand. I think that Easley is a lock to make the team. I think that Goodwin and Hogan make the team and they try to sneak Lewis onto the PS.

[YattaOkasan]

I guess I agree with all of this. But, given the choice between Hogan and Goodwin, I would rather have Hogan's short yardage reliability over Goodwin's occasional big play potential, since we already have at least two players with that type of downfield advantage in Watkins/Harvin.

 

Some on here have made the point that Goodwin has better hands than Hogan. The stats completely contradict that notion (44% to 66%), although I understand that Goodwin has been used in a very different way, and perhaps (as you suggested) misused by Marrone. But, there's no denying that Hogan has made quite a few more first downs than Goodwin. I would consider that more valuable for someone lower down the depth chart than an outside chance at a big play.

 

But, I would also rather have Lewis over Goodwin. As far down the chart as Goodwin would be, I think it's more valuable to have one tall wide receiver who can highpoint the ball-- as I have read, Lewis highpoint ability is one of his strengths. We got one big play out of Goodwin last season. What could we reasonably expect from him this season? At this point (and, obviously, my opinion could certainly change between now and August/Sept.), I'm more interested in seeing what Lewis has to offer, or what his potential could be.

 

I also view Hogan more favorably than Goodwin. Conservatively he gives you 1 more first down per game and loses you a 50 yard TD every 4 games. I think for our offense (and more importantly defense) taking the extra first down a game will be huge.

 

I disagree that Lewis is better than Goodwin. I think Lewis is still too raw at this in point in time to really be useful (and I'm high on him, it should be easy to find with my low post count).

 

I think both Hogan and Goodwin make the team. and Lewis gets stashed on the PS. I don't think a team would take him off waivers to put him on their 53 man roster (17th in round 7 with 3 WRs going before him).

[Rocky Landing]

 

Even if Harvin washes out, in order for Hogan to be the clear number 2 he'd have to surpass Woods (not happening) and Goodwin (also not likely to happen once camp starts in my mind) -- not to mention any dark horse candidates in the room.

Was Hogan not above Goodwin on the depth chart all last season? He was certainly more productive, and on the field a lot more.

 

 

I also view Hogan more favorably than Goodwin. Conservatively he gives you 1 more first down per game and loses you a 50 yard TD every 4 games. I think for our offense (and more importantly defense) taking the extra first down a game will be huge.

 

I disagree that Lewis is better than Goodwin. I think Lewis is still too raw at this in point in time to really be useful (and I'm high on him, it should be easy to find with my low post count).

 

I think both Hogan and Goodwin make the team. and Lewis gets stashed on the PS. I don't think a team would take him off waivers to put him on their 53 man roster (17th in round 7 with 3 WRs going before him).

For the record, I don't think that Lewis is better than Goodwin. He's a rookie. But, I think that we are so deep at WR, that Goodwin's talents are redundant, I don't see him working the slot, and he has not been nearly productive enough to keep him on this deep roster. Lewis is raw. But, his talents, were he to excel in TC, would be unique.

[Kirby Jackson]

 

I also view Hogan more favorably than Goodwin. Conservatively he gives you 1 more first down per game and loses you a 50 yard TD every 4 games. I think for our offense (and more importantly defense) taking the extra first down a game will be huge.

 

I disagree that Lewis is better than Goodwin. I think Lewis is still too raw at this in point in time to really be useful (and I'm high on him, it should be easy to find with my low post count).

 

I think both Hogan and Goodwin make the team. and Lewis gets stashed on the PS. I don't think a team would take him off waivers to put him on their 53 man roster (17th in round 7 with 3 WRs going before him).

Well thought out post. You should post here more often.

[BUFFALOKIE]

Someone just asked why people are high on him. His big play ability on this particular team may swing the outcome of a game or 2. No one needs these bottom of the roster guys to make a ton of plays all year. They need them to make big plays in important moments. He is capable of that. Think of the play Thigpen made last year.

Think of the play that Hogan made last year. That, and Freddy's stiff arm were the two biggest offensive plays of our season. And Freddy took second place in that metric.

[Kirby Jackson]

Was Hogan not above Goodwin on the depth chart all last season? He was certainly more productive, and on the field a lot more.

 

For the record, I don't think that Lewis is better than Goodwin. He's a rookie. But, I think that we are so deep at WR, that Goodwin's talents are redundant, I don't see him working the slot, and he has not been nearly productive enough to keep him on this deep roster. Lewis is raw. But, his talents, were he to excel in TC, would be unique.

You can throw last year out as a guide.

 

The skills being redundant is where you are going to have a hard time with your case. I believe that he has the 2nd fastest a 40 in combine history (don't remember if Dri Archer was faster). He is without question an elite deep threat. He has shortcomings but his skill set may not be duplicated in the league let alone on the roster.

[YattaOkasan]

Well thought out post. You should post here more often.

Its hard... it takes time and effort. I'll try to increase my productivity but I make no promises.

[Kirby Jackson]

Its hard... it takes time and effort. I'll try to increase my productivity but I make no promises.

Please do, there is always a place for well thoughtful posters. Edited June 10, 2015 by Kirby Jackson

[Uffalo Ills]

Better be one of the QBs or its going to be a long season.

+1

[3rdand12]

I have no idea where you stand. I think that Easley is a lock to make the team. I think that Goodwin and Hogan make the team and they try to sneak Lewis onto the PS.

I am ready to wager San-O!

I will not predict whether they can stash Dez. But i don think they have a choice.

Its hard... it takes time and effort. I'll try to increase my productivity but I make no promises.

Then take your time.

I think i can agree with K Jackson your comments are certainly worthwhile readings. and he might know something of that ; )

The Hogan Goodwin dialogue has been on going for two years pretty strong.

Thats a good thing. But has been best described by Kirby and Gunner Bill. a matter of degrees of thought.

Roman will have trouble with this one is posed the question Marquise or Chris? Pick one.

I am a Goodwin fan big time. But i just cannot bring myself to argue against Hogan any more. even that statistical argument about moving the chains. he caught that piss poor pass didnt he?

 

Edited June 11, 2015 by 3rdand12

[Chandler#81]

EJ pushing carts in the store at Walmart in October?

Nah, no Surprize at all..

[eball]

EJ pushing carts in the store at Walmart in October?

Nah, no Surprize at all..

 

My friend, you're really going to have to start wrapping your head around the distinct possibility that #3 will be the Bills' starting QB this September.

[MDH]

 

There's a chance both Hogan and Goodwin make the team. Easely is a lock. As is Watkins, Harvin, and Woods. Hogan, Goodwin, Lewis and the others are fighting for one or maybe two spots.

 

Hogan will be behind Goodwin when camp ends.

 

I don't see it. Both Watkins and Harvin can take the top off a D and Hogan actually makes it out of the training room onto the field. I'm not even a Hogan fan but Goodwin provides very little that other WRs can't replicate and given his penchant for getting hurt I don't see him making the team in front of Hogan.

[sjjr]

This should be the year Gilmore puts himself among the elite corners in the league. Not a surprise, but a breakout year.

 

Biggest surprise might be Duke Williams as the big hitter in the secondary.

[Dopey]

This is the exact debate. You hit the nail on the head. For me at the bottom of my roster I would rather an impact guy. Everyone is different when it comes to that. If they are going to play 10 snaps a game for me it's definitely Goodwin. If it is 3 full games starting it is definitely Hogan.

 

It really depends on how you look at the bottom of the roster. Do you want a safety net or a guy that can impact the outcome? I think that they both make it but the discussion is interesting).

He averages 18.1 YPC so far which is 26th all-time. I know that the sample size is small but the point is that he makes big plays. Neither guy is going to have a lot of chances (if the team is healthy). Goodwin will make more of 10 snaps than Hogan but if RW (for example) misses 3 games Hogan would be a better fit.

 

Goodwin is certainly the more feared player. Hogan is certainly the more reliable player.

Any d coordinator who fears Goodwin should be fired! There are no d coordinators losing sleep over him. He's done nothing and is a waste of a roster spot. The Bills have more than enough speed at wr without him. We need some toughness out there at wr too and Goodwin is the exact opposite. Some want to call him Roscoe v2. He couldn't jold Roscoe's jock strap. Comapred to Goodwin Roscoe was a lot tougher. Took a hit and got up. Goodwin gets hurt tripping over the 20 yard line. Starting to think Kirby is actually Goodwin politicking for his job.

[Dopey]

Rex Ryan said that (not me). You don't worry about a guy that ran the 2nd fastest combine in NFL history?

 

I'm not even a Goodwin fan really. I think that he is fragile. I am not naive enough though to overlook his potential value at the bottom of the roster. He has an elite skill, much in the same way that Easley has an elite skill. You can't really on them on every down but they can have an impact on a game b/c of it.

I get the speed argument, but he's had the same opportunities as Hogan and Hogan has produced. That's what this league is about, production. Goodwin hasn't done anything on his time here.

Dri Archer 4.26

Tye Hill, Yamon Figures, Darious Hayward bay 4.30

Justin King, Johnathan Joseph, Tyvon Branch 4.31

Demarcus van dyke, Jacoby Ford 4.28

Chris Johnson 4.24

These are the fastest 40's I could find besides Goodwin, that kind of speed doesn't always equate to awesome and/or feared. Only Cj had any real succes based on speed and Gopdwin is no Cj. Goodwin is just another fast runner, a really really fast runner, but that's about it. IMO.

Edited June 11, 2015 by Dopey