thebandit27 Posted June 2, 2015 Posted June 2, 2015 you mean like when we traded with philly for a pro bowl RB ? So your opinion is that Kiko Alonso sucks and wouldn't make the Bills' team? Otherwise that comparison is silly.
Orange Posted June 2, 2015 Posted June 2, 2015 (edited) yes yes we all know now that you admit KO wasn't the answer yet EJ sux... Meh = KO yet EJ sux... Tyrod has a few seasons on the bench yet EJ sux... we get it..... HGH I didn't know EJ played defense in the games the team lost either damn I need to pay attention more why yes, I believe that is what I said. You are right he threw a pick six directly to a lineman and let a 34 year old runningback and a 290 lb de outrun him. All those physical tools pffftt. Edited June 2, 2015 by Orange
thebandit27 Posted June 2, 2015 Posted June 2, 2015 You are right he threw a pick six directly to a lineman and let a 34 year old runningback and a 290 lb de outrun him. All those physical tools pffftt. I am 100% certain that we could find examples of HOFers that did the same thing. There are plenty of salient points that indicate that EJ hasn't played well enough on a consistent basis...the fact that he threw a pick-6 to the best defensive player in football, or getting out-run by a guy that gets paid to run, aren't in that column IMO.
Orange Posted June 2, 2015 Posted June 2, 2015 I am 100% certain that we could find examples of HOFers that did the same thing. There are plenty of salient points that indicate that EJ hasn't played well enough on a consistent basis...the fact that he threw a pick-6 to the best defensive player in football, or getting out-run by a guy that gets paid to run, aren't in that column IMO. Correct now back to the original point i stated some time ago. The raiders loss in no way shape or form can be contributed to kyle orton. That loss rests solely on the backs of the defense who let the raiders rack up the yards.
thebandit27 Posted June 2, 2015 Posted June 2, 2015 Correct now back to the original point i stated some time ago. The raiders loss in no way shape or form can be contributed to kyle orton. That loss rests solely on the backs of the defense who let the raiders rack up the yards. I'm not sure if you're being serious, but I'll respond as though you are: - The Raiders hardly "racked up the yards". Derek Carr was reduced to a 50% completion rate and threw for only 214 yards and had a QBR or 32.9. Buffalo held Oakland to 3.9 YPC on the ground. - The Bills, by contrast, were unable to run the ball at all (13 yards on 13 carries)...of course, the fact that they only ran 4 times in the 2nd half didn't help that. - Fred Jackson caught 3 times as many passes as any Bills' receiver...that's just not good for the offense. IMO, the real problem with that game was that Buffalo couldn't sustain drives on offense, which put the defense on the field for far too long. They were able to overcome that for much of the season, but losing 2 of their best players (Dareus and Gilmore) broke the camel's back.
BillsFan-4-Ever Posted June 2, 2015 Posted June 2, 2015 (edited) Correct now back to the original point i stated some time ago. The raiders loss in no way shape or form can be contributed to kyle orton. That loss rests solely on the backs of the defense who let the raiders rack up the yards. :blush: WRT the 2 win Faders Third Down Conv. 4-15 -1st QTR in scoring position @ the RAI 38 Kyle Orton deep pass across the middle intended for Scott Chandler is intercepted by Charles Woodson at OAK-16 then 5 straight 3 and outs!!! Yup KO was real worthy of being the better option Edited June 2, 2015 by BillsFan-4-Ever
eball Posted June 2, 2015 Posted June 2, 2015 (edited) I mean, I suppose he's mobile. So is Aaron Rodgers. Especially compared to a statue like Brady. But very mobile? Sounds more like a Wilson, Newton, Kaep type. IMO. List your "very mobile" QB's in today's NFL. You put Smith on that list? Look at Alex Smith's rushing stats in college. Yes, he's "very mobile." He has not been asked to be a running QB in the NFL because he would get killed, but I guarantee you DCs who face Smith are very aware of his ability to get out of trouble with his legs and make plays on the move. If your intent is to play semantics with the word "very" I don't have time for that. Edited June 2, 2015 by eball
Orange Posted June 2, 2015 Posted June 2, 2015 (edited) I'm not sure if you're being serious, but I'll respond as though you are: - The Raiders hardly "racked up the yards". Derek Carr was reduced to a 50% completion rate and threw for only 214 yards and had a QBR or 32.9. Buffalo held Oakland to 3.9 YPC on the ground. - The Bills, by contrast, were unable to run the ball at all (13 yards on 13 carries)...of course, the fact that they only ran 4 times in the 2nd half didn't help that. - Fred Jackson caught 3 times as many passes as any Bills' receiver...that's just not good for the offense. IMO, the real problem with that game was that Buffalo couldn't sustain drives on offense, which put the defense on the field for far too long. They were able to overcome that for much of the season, but losing 2 of their best players (Dareus and Gilmore) broke the camel's back. Im sorry thats why looking at box scores and stats are misleading. I left the word rush before typing yards on purpose because people tend to rewrite history. If you remember during that game 2 large 25 yard runs were given up by our defense along with deep accurately thrown balls that led to scoring. Ie the first oakland td drive 50 yd pass that led to a 4yd score, second score the oak rbs 6/31 thats 5+ yds per carry, fourth score the oak rbs 4/45 yds thats 11+ ypc, oakland 6 score gave up another 50 yd pass and 6/31 ypc rushing. If you didnt watch the game spouting of box scores doesnt help your case. Robert woods says hello with 7 catches. Did fred catch 21 passes that game? Also if YOU remeber correctly watkins hurt his hip wk 13 abd really shouldnt have been playing in a week 16 game. Probably why hes still recovering now. :blush: WRT the 2 win Faders Third Down Conv. 4-15 -1st QTR in scoring position @ the RAI 38 Kyle Orton deep pass across the middle intended for Scott Chandler is intercepted by Charles Woodson at OAK-16 then 5 straight 3 and outs!!! Yup KO was real worthy of being the better option Your right what was i think traditionally when you put your team in a position to score 24 points after throwing 3 tds its always a loss. Sarcasm intended. Edited June 2, 2015 by Orange
thebandit27 Posted June 2, 2015 Posted June 2, 2015 Im sorry thats why looking at box scores and stats are misleading. I left the word rush before typing yards on purpose because people tend to rewrite history. If you remember during that game 2 large 25 yard runs were given up by our defense along with deep accurately thrown balls that led to scoring. Ie the first oakland td drive 50 yd pass that led to a 4yd score, second score the oak rbs 6/31 thats 5+ yds per carry, fourth score the oak rbs 4/45 yds thats 11+ ypc, oakland 6 score gave up another 50 yd pass and 6/31 ypc rushing. If you didnt watch the game spouting of box scores doesnt help your case. Your right what was i think traditionally when you put your team in a position to score 24 points after throwing 3 tds its always a loss. Sarcasm intended. Or...I actually did watch the game and remember it accurately, and have a different take on it than you. That the defense was left on the field too long, which lead to the big runs to which you refer. It also didn't help that they lost Dareus and Gilmore, which allowed the big plays of which you speak. Lastly, when you enter the 4th quarter with only 10 points on the road, and only 11 first downs total, against the worst defense in football (in terms of points allowed per game), that's on the offense. If you don't see that much, then I'm not certain we can have a reasonable discussion about this topic.
DC Tom Posted June 2, 2015 Posted June 2, 2015 Part of me hopes EJ gets cut, just so these stupid threads will end. But another part of me realizes we'll have the same stupid discussions about whoever replaces him.
Orange Posted June 2, 2015 Posted June 2, 2015 Or...I actually did watch the game and remember it accurately, and have a different take on it than you. That the defense was left on the field too long, which lead to the big runs to which you refer. It also didn't help that they lost Dareus and Gilmore, which allowed the big plays of which you speak. Lastly, when you enter the 4th quarter with only 10 points on the road, and only 11 first downs total, against the worst defense in football (in terms of points allowed per game), that's on the offense. If you don't see that much, then I'm not certain we can have a reasonable discussion about this topic. Right orton did hid part, the rbs got 13 yds rushing, and the defense couldnt stop a 3-13 team. So it makes perfect sense to blame the guy that performed based off of game you seem to have forgotten. I still remember screaming at the defense for giving up huge back breaking plays after we crawled our way back into it and had a chance to win.
thebandit27 Posted June 2, 2015 Posted June 2, 2015 Right orton did hid part, the rbs got 13 yds rushing, and the defense couldnt stop a 3-13 team. So it makes perfect sense to blame the guy that performed based off of game you seem to have forgotten. I still remember screaming at the defense for giving up huge back breaking plays after we crawled our way back into it and had a chance to win. I have no idea why you insist on telling me that I don't remember the game. I remember it quite well...Orton dumping the ball off to Fred Jackson time and again. Orton throwing interceptions on 2 consecutive pass attempts and escaping on the 2nd because the replay showed the defender dropped it, then following that up by checking down to Fred Jackson on 3rd and long. Should I mention the 4 consecutive 3-and-outs in the 2nd quarter, during which Orton was 2/8 for 5 yards? How about opening the 2nd half with a 3-and-out on 3 straight pass plays? Nah, no blame for Orton.
Orange Posted June 2, 2015 Posted June 2, 2015 (edited) I have no idea why you insist on telling me that I don't remember the game. I remember it quite well...Orton dumping the ball off to Fred Jackson time and again. Orton throwing interceptions on 2 consecutive pass attempts and escaping on the 2nd because the replay showed the defender dropped it, then following that up by checking down to Fred Jackson on 3rd and long. Should I mention the 4 consecutive 3-and-outs in the 2nd quarter, during which Orton was 2/8 for 5 yards? How about opening the 2nd half with a 3-and-out on 3 straight pass plays? Nah, no blame for Orton. Such is sad. 24 points three tds. Zero running game, and a defense that couldnt stop a 2-12 team whose offense ranked DEADLAST. But sure 329 yards or 96.2 of the offensive output came from ko throwing the ball but its his fault. Im sure you were screaming at the dominant defense we had saying why are you letting a rookie qb, mcfadden, murray, and thompkins who previously had 172 yards total on the year eat you up for 90. But its ko fault. Edited June 2, 2015 by Orange
thebandit27 Posted June 2, 2015 Posted June 2, 2015 Such is sad. 24 points three tds. Zero running game, and a defense that couldnt stop a 2-12 team whose offense ranked DEADLAST. But sure 329 yards By contrast, you are blaming Buffalo's defense for allowing fewer passing yards and fewer TDs, yet you place no blame on Orton for failing to even reach the red zone a single time. Do you really expect Buffalo's defense to hold up against 36 rushing attempts? Tell you what, I'm going to put this right here, and you can look at it when you've got a minute: http://scores.espn.go.com/nfl/drivechart?gameId=400554442 Tell me what you see from looking at Buffalo's drive chart. Then come back and say that Orton deserves no blame. Notice that I never once said he deserves all of the blame. I merely refuted your statement that he should get none of it (which apparently is solely based on his yardage total).
metzelaars_lives Posted June 2, 2015 Posted June 2, 2015 yes yes we all know now that you admit KO wasn't the answer yet EJ sux... Meh = KO yet EJ sux... Tyrod has a few seasons on the bench yet EJ sux... we get it..... HGH I didn't know EJ played defense in the games the team lost either damn I need to pay attention more why yes, I believe that is what I said. I'm not sure who has been paying attention to this recent back and forth between myself and Bills-fan-4-life but he is now officially on record as saying that the Bills would have finished 13-3 last year had they stuck with Manuel at QB. Just in case anyone was wondering. And Bills-fan: you accuse me of being some fringe, outspoken, baseless EJ basher because my stance has been that I don't think he's going to develop into a franchise QB and then you go around making statements like this? You have taken things to a new level my friend. Part of me hopes EJ gets cut, just so these stupid threads will end. But another part of me realizes we'll have the same stupid discussions about whoever replaces him. What's going to happen is that Cassel is going to win the job, he's not going to be that good either and then the EJ dreamers are gonna come back out of the woodwork and talk about how he would have won the game that Cassel lost and he would be better than Cassel if only he were playing but they will completely ignore the fact that EJ was incapable of beating Cassel out for the starting job in the first place.
The Wiz Posted June 2, 2015 Posted June 2, 2015 What's going to happen is that _____ is going to win the job, he's not going to be that good either and then the _____ dreamers are gonna come back out of the woodwork and talk about how he would have won the game that _____ lost and he would be better than _____ if only he were playing but they will completely ignore the fact that _____ was incapable of beating _____ out for the starting job in the first place. Fill in the blank for the last 15 years.
metzelaars_lives Posted June 2, 2015 Posted June 2, 2015 (edited) :blush: WRT the 2 win Faders Third Down Conv. 4-15 -1st QTR in scoring position @ the RAI 38 Kyle Orton deep pass across the middle intended for Scott Chandler is intercepted by Charles Woodson at OAK-16 then 5 straight 3 and outs!!! Yup KO was real worthy of being the better option So you have shown us that Kyle Orton played poorly and certainly played a part in the loss against Oakland. Congratulations. What in the world does that have to do with EJ Manuel? EJ Manuel played WAY poorer in his last two starts than Orton did in any game he played all season. You need to go back and take some high school level logic classes. Orton playing poorly doesn't prove that another guy- who was playing worse- would have played better. You can make the same argument saying Jeff Tuel would have beat the Raiders because Orton played poorly and it would be equally as illogical. Fill in the blank for the last 15 years. Ha well done! Exactly. Edited June 2, 2015 by metzelaars_lives
Orange Posted June 2, 2015 Posted June 2, 2015 By contrast, you are blaming Buffalo's defense for allowing fewer passing yards and fewer TDs, yet you place no blame on Orton for failing to even reach the red zone a single time. Do you really expect Buffalo's defense to hold up against 36 rushing attempts? Tell you what, I'm going to put this right here, and you can look at it when you've got a minute: http://scores.espn.go.com/nfl/drivechart?gameId=400554442 Tell me what you see from looking at Buffalo's drive chart. Then come back and say that Orton deserves no blame. Notice that I never once said he deserves all of the blame. I merely refuted your statement that he should get none of it (which apparently is solely based on his yardage total). Its based on him doing his part despite a non existent running game, a demoralizing defense that couldnt stop a 2-12 team whos offense ranked dead last(15.8 ppg/204 pypg/77rypg) led by a rookie qb, washed up rb, a no name rb, and a wr that had less than 300 yards on the year.Do you not see the glaring failure?
thebandit27 Posted June 2, 2015 Posted June 2, 2015 Its based on him doing his part despite a non existent running game, a demoralizing defense that couldnt stop a 2-12 team whos offense ranked dead last(15.8 ppg/204 pypg/77rypg) led by a rookie qb, washed up rb, a no name rb, and a wr that had less than 300 yards on the year. Do you not see the glaring failure? Right back at you: they played the worst defense in football in terms of points/game allowed. You and I are done here...if you cannot (or, more likely, will not) recognize that Orton played a role in that loss, and bares just as much responsibility as the rest of the team, then there's no point in discussing this topic, and I therefore apologize to the rest of the board for getting off topic in an attempt to correct a blatant mischaracterization.
FireChan Posted June 2, 2015 Posted June 2, 2015 Look at Alex Smith's rushing stats in college. Yes, he's "very mobile." He has not been asked to be a running QB in the NFL because he would get killed, but I guarantee you DCs who face Smith are very aware of his ability to get out of trouble with his legs and make plays on the move. If your intent is to play semantics with the word "very" I don't have time for that. Again, I just don't put him on the same tier as Kaep and the rest.
Recommended Posts