The press speculates on EJ's future

[papazoid]

EJ is in BIG trouble. he will be 4th on the depth chart by the end of camp.

 

i say he gets traded. no reason to eat his guaranteed contract. hopefully to philly for mathis.

[JESSEFEFFER]

 

His young receivers needed to be taken to the woodshed and spanked.

EJ was getting beat up against the Texans and Sammy was complaining about a throw (which he dropped) being a foot too low. Three drops by Sammy that game plus two by others while EJ is hit around 18 times with JJ Watt hitting him both legally and illegally 9 or so times. Didn't set right with me.

Edited June 1, 2015 by JESSEFEFFER

[BillsFan-4-Ever]

Will you EJ Sucks people give it a break for a while? say month or more?

 

repeating EJ sucks over and over won't make it come true.

 

He's got as good a chance (if not better) to be #1 as Meh, Tyrod and Simms.

 

ALL GREAT QB's get beat up once in a while. Pointing to 1 game out of 14 is lunacy!!!

I''ll point to 2 bad games in the last 2 seasons for 2 "very good" QB's

 

Look at Andrew Luck in the playoffs V the Cheatriots in January!

Look at Peyton Manning in the SB V the Seahawks the year before!

Edited June 1, 2015 by BillsFan-4-Ever

[thebandit27]

EJ is in BIG trouble. he will be 4th on the depth chart by the end of camp.

 

i say he gets traded. no reason to eat his guaranteed contract. hopefully to philly for mathis.

EJ sucks...my prediction is that we trade him for a pro bowl guard.

 

WHAT?

[YoloinOhio]

EJ sucks...my prediction is that we trade him for a pro bowl guard.

 

WHAT?

right?! Smh.

[Dorkington]

[CodeMonkey]

EJ sucks...my prediction is that we trade him for a pro bowl guard.

 

WHAT?

I know. I read these posts too and scratch my head. If a QB is 4th on the depth chart on a team with no good QB, how in the world would anyone trade a good OL for him? I mean, Whaley is good but he would need to be a miracle worker to pull that off

[Big Gun]

EJ is in BIG trouble. he will be 4th on the depth chart by the end of camp.

 

i say he gets traded. no reason to eat his guaranteed contract. hopefully to philly for mathis.

Who is going to trade for a 4th string QB?

[BillsFan-4-Ever]

to reiterate a link from the OTA thread

 

http://www.buffalobills.com/news/article-1/The-skinny-on-the-QB-race/b3f3dcdf-34c3-4364-a070-3469bb44ef19

 

The new scheme is a first for Manuel at the NFL level, but his work ethic has given him a firm grasp of Greg Roman’s system.

“I was impressed—for instance, he saw a guy, he looked over the field and made a great throw down the field,” said Ryan. “Clearly, to me, it shows he can see the field. That’s impressive to me. There was no question about it mentally. He was sharp. That part I was impressed with, with EJ.”

[truth on hold]

to reiterate a link from the OTA thread

 

http://www.buffalobills.com/news/article-1/The-skinny-on-the-QB-race/b3f3dcdf-34c3-4364-a070-3469bb44ef19

 

The new scheme is a first for Manuel at the NFL level, but his work ethic has given him a firm grasp of Greg Romans system.

I was impressedfor instance, he saw a guy, he looked over the field and made a great throw down the field, said Ryan. Clearly, to me, it shows he can see the field. Thats impressive to me. There was no question about it mentally. He was sharp. That part I was impressed with, with EJ.

From that same article his comments on Taylor seem most telling to me....

 

He gives you athleticism at that position that as a defensive coach, youre nervous about, said Ryan. For a guy that cannot just do things with his arm, but with his legs as well, whether thats organized runs, or when things break down, he can still make plays. He throws a deep ball extremely well. You put him on the move hes a dangerous weapon out there. I think the ability is hard to ignore, so well see if he can put it all together.

[JESSEFEFFER]

Will you EJ Sucks people give it a break for a while? say month or more?

 

repeating EJ sucks over and over won't make it come true.

 

He's got as good a chance (if not better) to be #1 as Meh, Tyrod and Simms.

 

ALL GREAT QB's get beat up once in a while. Pointing to 1 game out of 14 is lunacy!!!

I''ll point to 2 bad games in the last 2 seasons for 2 "very good" QB's

 

Look at Andrew Luck in the playoffs V the Cheatriots in January!

Look at Peyton Manning in the SB V the Seahawks the year before!

I'll add another.

 

21 of 50 for 195 yds, 2 TDs and 3 Ints with a composite tQBR of 3.2. That was Joe Flacco's December game with against JJ Watt and the Texans with playoff implications attached to the outcome.

Edited June 1, 2015 by JESSEFEFFER

[metzelaars_lives]

Will you EJ Sucks people give it a break for a while? say month or more?

 

repeating EJ sucks over and over won't make it come true.

 

He's got as good a chance (if not better) to be #1 as Meh, Tyrod and Simms.

 

ALL GREAT QB's get beat up once in a while. Pointing to 1 game out of 14 is lunacy!!!

I''ll point to 2 bad games in the last 2 seasons for 2 "very good" QB's

 

Look at Andrew Luck in the playoffs V the Cheatriots in January!

Look at Peyton Manning in the SB V the Seahawks the year before!

He has not had 1 bad game out of 14. The Chargers game was equally horrendous. How about at the Jets his rookie year? How about at the Bucs or at Pittsburgh his rookie year? And I don't even think he had a horrible rookie year. But please don't try and paint some picture that he has played 13 adequate games and 1 bad one. When he looks like Andrew Luck in 13 out of 14 games, there will be no need for this debate any longer.

 

My issue with him is the extent to which he regressed in his second year. And then here is where you point out that he only played in four games and Tannehill struggled early last year but they left him in... but what the EJ dreamers never acknowledge is that he looked so incredibly bad ALL offseason. Every practice, every preseason game- so much in fact that they had to go out and throw a ton of money at Orton because they knew how much trouble they were in.

 

And also, EJ Manuel does not have as much of a chance at starting this season as "Meh" Cassel. He simply doesn't. Any rational football fan with a gun to their head is going to say that Cassel has the best chance of starting against the Colts. Come on man, you're better than that.

Edited June 1, 2015 by metzelaars_lives

[BillsVet]

 

His young receivers needed to be taken to the woodshed and spanked.

 

I thought the receivers were highly thought of, considering one is a renowned 2014 top-5 pick and the other was a solid receiver taken in the 2nd the year of Manuel's selection.

 

Which one is it? Is it the QB not playing at the level of the receivers or the receivers not keeping pace with the QB? To me, when the receivers are being thrown balls that could get them a serious injury, it tells me the receivers aren't wrong. Go back and watch the tape of the Houston game when Manuel almost gets Robert Woods killed on a short pattern. And there were other examples of receivers being hung out to dry.

 

All of this reminds me of some fans in 2007 who claimed that if Losman had better coaching, he'd be as good as Eli Manning. Objectivity, especially with regard to Manuel, is the endangered species here.

[metzelaars_lives]

I'll add another.

 

21 of 50 for 195 yds, 2 TDs and 3 Ints with a composite tQBR of 3.2. That was Joe Flacco's December game with against JJ Watt and the Texans with playoff implications attached to the outcome.

You are right on man. I remember this one game in 1986 where Joe Montana looked really bad. Therefore I think EJ Manuel is going to be good.

 

Can you guys please stop with this narrative that "everything was going just fine with EJ until that one Houston game..." He was literally just as bad the week before.

Edited June 1, 2015 by metzelaars_lives

[JESSEFEFFER]

You are right on man. I remember this one game in 1986 where Joe Montana looked really bad. Therefore I think EJ Manuel is going to be good.

Better Qb, better offense, worse game against the same defense that wrecked EJs 2014 season. The story is that you don't overreact to one bad outcome where the entire offense played crappy.

 

EJ has 8 of 14 starts with a tQBR at 50+. Orton had 4 of 12 in his 2014 starts. EJ PLAYED DECENTLY (tQBR at 50+ is somewhat arbitrary but fair, imo) IN A MAJORITY OF STARTS AS A BUFFALO BILL, KYLE DID NOT. This is the counter to the Kyle Orton saved the season/gave them the best chance to win argument, the EJ has shown nothing argument, the EJ sucks argument, etc. etc. etc.

 

So, yeah, I do have a point and might be "right on" and your point is what exactly?

[metzelaars_lives]

Better Qb, better offense, worse game against the same defense that wrecked EJs 2014 season. The story is that you don't overreact to one bad outcome where the entire offense played crappy.

 

EJ has 8 of 14 starts with a tQBR at 50+. Orton had 4 of 12 in his 2014 starts. EJ PLAYED DECENTLY (tQBR at 50+ is somewhat arbitrary but fair, imo) IN A MAJORITY OF STARTS AS A BUFFALO BILL, KYLE DID NOT. This is the counter to the Kyle Orton saved the season/gave them the best chance to win argument, the EJ has shown nothing argument, the EJ sucks argument, etc. etc. etc.

 

So, yeah, I do have a point and might be "right on" and your point is what exactly?

See my other post above. So EJ had a QBR (which is not the be all end all btw) above 50 in 6 of his 10 starts as a rookie. Not bad at all. That's why I said he had a decent year for a rookie. The issue that you are overlooking is the extent to which he regressed in his second season. There is no statistic to account for the fact that he sucked at every practice and every preseason game all last offseason. Then he game managed his way to two victories (he looked adequate, sure) and then completely imploded in his next two. And why would you compare to him to Kyle Orton- who also sucked- as your benchmark? Look, this is all gonna be over soon. I wish EJ Manuel nothing but the best but I would be absolutely floored if he ended up being our long term solution at QB. I am allowed to have that opinion and be a diehard Buffalo Bills fan simultaneously. EDIT: And FWIW Orton's overall QBR last year was better than EJ's in either of his seasons. He had no games with a single-digit QBR; Manuel's had 4. And Orton got a 31 against Detroit, which is a game that EJ Manuel simply does not win the way he was playing- and a game that Orton played pretty well in.

Edited June 1, 2015 by metzelaars_lives

[JESSEFEFFER]

"See my other post above. So EJ had a QBR (which is not the be all end all btw) above 50 in 6 of his 10 starts as a rookie. Not bad at all. That's why I said he had a decent year for a rookie." Fair point. Many would not concede that. Those are the "EJ has shown nothing!" crowd.

 

"The issue that you are overlooking is the extent to which he regressed in his second season. There is no statistic to account for the fact that he sucked at every practice and every preseason game all last offseason." The practice point is overstated. I specifically remember statements to the contrary after the joint practices with the Steelers. I specifically remember the offense looking crappy in the preseason. Mike Williams drops a TD pass against the Redskins, Robert Woods slips on his break (after the ball has been released) Fred Jackson stops on a swing route when a defender steps between him and EJ. The offense looked like crap, the o-line was unsettled and committed multiple penalties and they got booed off the field at the half. EJ was 10 of 10 for 131 yds. (against backups mostly) in the second half. When the o-line stopped playing crappy so did EJ. Hmmmm.

 

"Then he game managed his way to two victories (he looked adequate, sure) and then completely imploded in his next two." 30+ mph winds and the o-line's inability to pick up a line stunt in the SD game and the offense struggled. I would like to find any example of a QB having a "decent" game when sacked, hit or pressured in 40+% of their dropbacks.

 

"And why would you compare to him to Kyle Orton- who also sucked- as your benchmark?" There is a narrative out there that Kyle Orton saved the season and gave the Bills the better chance to win right up until the last game of the season. Those that believe this tend to be in the ""EJ sucks" camp. That's why he is compared. It doesn't look like the truth to me.

 

"Look, this is all gonna be over soon. I wish EJ Manuel nothing but the best but I would be absolutely floored if he ended up being our long term solution at QB. I am allowed to have that opinion and be a diehard Buffalo Bills fan simultaneously." Yes and no. It never ends. Ravens fans were not happy with Flacco right up until they won it all. Many then thought his big money contract was unwarranted and would hamstring the franchise. This may be true. I would not be floored if he succeeded to that extent but it is less than probable. Overall, this is a fair statement.

 

EDIT: And FWIW Orton's overall QBR last year was better than EJ's in either of his seasons. He had no games with a single-digit QBR; Manuel's had 4. And Orton got a 31 against Detroit, which is a game that EJ Manuel simply does not win the way he was playing- and a game that Orton played pretty well in. I'd say this about composite stats: Beware the outliers. Embrace the median and not the mean. The strength of Kyle's composite season stats benefits greatly from kicking the crap out of the Jets twice and I doubt that there is much difference between a 9 and a 19 in the tQBR win probability.

[BillsFan-4-Ever]

He has not had 1 bad game out of 14. The Chargers game was equally horrendous. How about at the Jets his rookie year? How about at the Bucs or at Pittsburgh his rookie year? And I don't even think he had a horrible rookie year. But please don't try and paint some picture that he has played 13 adequate games and 1 bad one. When he looks like Andrew Luck in 13 out of 14 games, there will be no need for this debate any longer.

 

My issue with him is the extent to which he regressed in his second year. And then here is where you point out that he only played in four games and Tannehill struggled early last year but they left him in... but what the EJ dreamers never acknowledge is that he looked so incredibly bad ALL offseason. Every practice, every preseason game- so much in fact that they had to go out and throw a ton of money at Orton because they knew how much trouble they were in.

 

And also, EJ Manuel does not have as much of a chance at starting this season as "Meh" Cassel. He simply doesn't. Any rational football fan with a gun to their head is going to say that Cassel has the best chance of starting against the Colts. Come on man, you're better than that.

with respect YAWN

 

many of his detractors (mostly) point to the Houston game as THE decider.

EJ finished what 4-6 in 2013 AND 2-2 in 2014. 2 games under .500 in 14 games,

Orton barely managed 2 games over .500 in 12 games.

KO @ 7-5 in his last game had ZERO points against scrubs and all game w/o the Putz leading WR and TE.

 

2013, 2014 combined with +/- 1 game and both would be .500.

 

Never said EJ was perfect, just not as bad as the detractors say.

EJ lost @ the JETS 20-27 but defeated the JETS 37-14 in Buffalo

LOST to the Falcons in TO because of 2 fumbles by SJ and SC on IIRC back to back drives one in OT - not EJ's fault

I'll give you @ the BUCS ** but not @ the Steelers.

 

** What of KO and the 2 win Raiders? HMMMMM?

 

Keep hoping and praying for an outcome different that what will very likely happen.

Meh will be the #2, EJ will be #1

 

write that down and trash me later IF I am proven wrong.

[VABills]

So a guy who can't even lead his team to .500 is better than a guy who basically retired on active duty but was 2 games over .500?

 

What logic is that? So we should just let the Cubs into the playoffs even if they finish behind the Mets in wild card because you say so?

 

And the guy over .500 only played scrubs like Green Bay, Detroit and KC, all of who were over .500 and 2 of which made playoffs.

 

The guy under .500 played Chicago, Houston, Miami and SD, none of which made playoffs.

Edited June 1, 2015 by VABills

[1billsfan]

He has not had 1 bad game out of 14. The Chargers game was equally horrendous. How about at the Jets his rookie year? How about at the Bucs or at Pittsburgh his rookie year? And I don't even think he had a horrible rookie year. But please don't try and paint some picture that he has played 13 adequate games and 1 bad one. When he looks like Andrew Luck in 13 out of 14 games, there will be no need for this debate any longer.

 

My issue with him is the extent to which he regressed in his second year. And then here is where you point out that he only played in four games and Tannehill struggled early last year but they left him in... but what the EJ dreamers never acknowledge is that he looked so incredibly bad ALL offseason. Every practice, every preseason game- so much in fact that they had to go out and throw a ton of money at Orton because they knew how much trouble they were in.

 

And also, EJ Manuel does not have as much of a chance at starting this season as "Meh" Cassel. He simply doesn't. Any rational football fan with a gun to their head is going to say that Cassel has the best chance of starting against the Colts. Come on man, you're better than that.

 

Matt Cassel is a one dimensional QB and Roman (with Harbaugh of course) has already proven that he prefers a multi-dimensional QB over a one dimensional QB (Smith/Kaepernick).

 

So expect either Taylor or Manuel to win the starting job, whoever doesn't win it will be the backup and Cassel will be the 3rd string QB in case of an emergency meltdown of both athletic QBs ahead of him. Rex isn't afraid of letting coaches and players be free to do what they do. There's no doubt in my mind that Greg Roman plans on a triple option offense where the defense has to make split decisions in accounting for Watkins, Harvin, McCoy, Clay and either Manuel or Taylor running the ball in the open field. Cassel doesn't have the speed or athletic ability to execute it (his joke about being "catlike out there" might be a tip off that the QB has to be athletic and mobile in this new offense). Now if this new offense doesn't work by mid season, then you are talking about the Bills possibly going to the traditional ground and pound with Cassel entering the picture as the starting QB.

 

BTW, if both Manuel and Taylor look horrible in training camp and preseason games then the Bills would probably go straight to starting Cassel. So that is a valid option where Cassel would become the starter and they would just pretty much scrap the triple option offense all together. I just don't think that either Manuel or Taylor will look bad enough to scrap it.

Edited June 1, 2015 by 1billsfan