Dorkington Posted June 2, 2015 Posted June 2, 2015 Right back at you: they played the worst defense in football in terms of points/game allowed. You and I are done here...if you cannot (or, more likely, will not) recognize that Orton played a role in that loss, and bares just as much responsibility as the rest of the team, then there's no point in discussing this topic, and I therefore apologize to the rest of the board for getting off topic in an attempt to correct a blatant mischaracterization. That was definitely a team loss.
BillsFan-4-Ever Posted June 2, 2015 Posted June 2, 2015 Or...I actually did watch the game and remember it accurately, and have a different take on it than you. That the defense was left on the field too long, which lead to the big runs to which you refer. It also didn't help that they lost Dareus and Gilmore, which allowed the big plays of which you speak. Lastly, when you enter the 4th quarter with only 10 points on the road, and only 11 first downs total, against the worst defense in football (in terms of points allowed per game), that's on the offense. If you don't see that much, then I'm not certain we can have a reasonable discussion about this topic. BINGO !!! :thumbsup: Only 100 more days of QB arguments before the season starts!!!
Best Player Available Posted June 2, 2015 Posted June 2, 2015 Part of me hopes EJ gets cut, just so these stupid threads will end. But another part of me realizes we'll have the same stupid discussions about whoever replaces him. agreed, cut EJ helps if for nothing else but to stop BF4E never ending crusade for EJ. One of the biggest in any forum. All so he could say "'I told you so" Sadly, I hope he has an account set up for years of upcoming therapy.
BillsFan-4-Ever Posted June 2, 2015 Posted June 2, 2015 (edited) I'm not sure who has been paying attention to this recent back and forth between myself and Bills-fan-4-life but he is now officially on record as saying that the Bills would have finished 13-3 last year had they stuck with Manuel at QB. Just in case anyone was wondering. And Bills-fan: you accuse me of being some fringe, outspoken, baseless EJ basher because my stance has been that I don't think he's going to develop into a franchise QB and then you go around making statements like this? You have taken things to a new level my friend. What's going to happen is that Cassel is going to win the job, he's not going to be that good either and then the EJ dreamers are gonna come back out of the woodwork and talk about how he would have won the game that Cassel lost and he would be better than Cassel if only he were playing but they will completely ignore the fact that EJ was incapable of beating Cassel out for the starting job in the first place. when you readily admit that Orton WAS NOT the answer .... why you refuse to accept any other conclusion if dumbfounding!!! I think that (you) not admitting the possibility of 13 wins does make you an EJ basher. Only 100 more days of QB arguments before the season starts!!! agreed, cut EJ helps if for nothing else but to stop BF4E never ending crusade for EJ. One of the biggest in any forum. All so he could say "'I told you so" Sadly, I hope he has an account set up for years of upcoming therapy. Am I the only one here that thinks EJ can be good? the obvious answer is NO. So please add the name of every other member in support of EJ. I can only imagine the therapy the EJ detractors will have to suffer through when he's named the starter Edited June 2, 2015 by BillsFan-4-Ever
Hapless Bills Fan Posted June 2, 2015 Posted June 2, 2015 Right orton did hid part, the rbs got 13 yds rushing, and the defense couldnt stop a 3-13 team. So it makes perfect sense to blame the guy that performed based off of game you seem to have forgotten. I still remember screaming at the defense for giving up huge back breaking plays after we crawled our way back into it and had a chance to win. Orton dumping the ball off to Fred Jackson time and again. Orton throwing interceptions on 2 consecutive pass attempts and escaping on the 2nd because the replay showed the defender dropped it, then following that up by checking down to Fred Jackson on 3rd and long. Should I mention the 4 consecutive 3-and-outs in the 2nd quarter, during which Orton was 2/8 for 5 yards? How about opening the 2nd half with a 3-and-out on 3 straight pass plays? Nah, no blame for Orton. You do realize that you two epitomize why football is a team game and it's generally considered stupid to tag one player or even one unit on the team with a win or loss?
metzelaars_lives Posted June 2, 2015 Posted June 2, 2015 (edited) when you readily admit that Orton WAS NOT the answer .... why you refuse to accept any other conclusion if dumbfounding!!! I think that (you) not admitting the possibility of 13 wins does make you an EJ basher. Only 100 more days of QB arguments before the season starts!!! Am I the only one here that thinks EJ can be good? the obvious answer is NO. So please add the name of every other member in support of EJ. I can only imagine the therapy the EJ detractors will have to suffer through when he's named the starter Two things: OF COURSE KYLE FREAKING ORTON WASN'T THE ANSWER!!!!! Who in the world says he was? I've said on here a hundred times that he sucked too. You said there are plenty of other EJ dreamers on this site and I agree with you. But please, I beg of you, tell me one person who believed or believes that Kyle Orton was/is the answer? And furthermore, while there are EJ dreamers, can you please find me one other guy or girl who agrees with you that the Bills would have finished 13-3 last year if they stuck with Manuel? Is anyone else reading this!?!?! But even playing with his heart clearly not in it last year, he still gave the Bills a better chance to win than the Manuel we saw through four games. As bad as Orton played at times, his numbers were still decidedly better than Manuel's Could Manuel have magically progressed last year and played better than Orton did? Sure. But he gave nobody a reason to believe that was going to happen. As I've said on here a THOUSAND times: he sucked in practice too. But as we all know, he's only played in 14 games, Doug Marrone is now coaching in Jacksonville and now my favorite new one: Kyle Orton sucked too. Therefore, there is reason to believe. Edited June 2, 2015 by metzelaars_lives
BillsFan-4-Ever Posted June 2, 2015 Posted June 2, 2015 You do realize that you two epitomize why football is a team game and it's generally considered stupid to tag one player or even one unit on the team with a win or loss? you need to state the obvious yet blame EJ (a veritable rookie) but not a 10 year pro (IIRC replaced by Tim Tebow)
LOVEMESOMEBILLS Posted June 2, 2015 Posted June 2, 2015 Its based on him doing his part despite a non existent running game, a demoralizing defense that couldnt stop a 2-12 team whos offense ranked dead last(15.8 ppg/204 pypg/77rypg) led by a rookie qb, washed up rb, a no name rb, and a wr that had less than 300 yards on the year. Do you not see the glaring failure? Or was it the defense doing it's part despite an offense who went from 7:24 of the first quarter until 1:02 of the second quarter without a first down. After the second Bills drive of the game(which ended with a KO Int.) the Bills drives for the rest of the 1st half are as follows: 3 plays 5 yds 1:34, 3 plays 4 yds 1:24, 3 plays 2yds 0:41, 3 plays 3 yds 0:47, 3 plays 2 yds 1:29, 8 plays 41 yds 1:11. How anyone can defend that is beyond me. 6 drives 23 plays for 57 yds and only 7 minutes and 6 seconds of possession time. How is a defense suppose to get a breather when the offense, for 6 straight drives, has the ball for an average of 1 minute 1 second? I see the glaring failure. It's an offense that looked like the worst in the NFL and was led by Kyle Orton.
BillsFan-4-Ever Posted June 2, 2015 Posted June 2, 2015 Two things: OF COURSE KYLE FREAKING ORTON WASN'T THE ANSWER!!!!! Who in the world says he was? I've said on here a hundred times that he sucked too. You said there are plenty of other EJ dreamers on this site and I agree with you. But please, I beg of you, tell me one person who believed or believes that Kyle Orton was/is the answer? for a LONG while in Oct and Nov you and Chan and about 3 to 6 others did until Captain Obvious showed up. Lastly - knowing this, why not turn the reins back over to the young guy to see what he could or could not do? I'm done "arguing" with you on this today. Enjoy.
LOVEMESOMEBILLS Posted June 2, 2015 Posted June 2, 2015 Part of me hopes EJ gets cut, just so these stupid threads will end. But another part of me realizes we'll have the same stupid discussions about whoever replaces him. Which part?
metzelaars_lives Posted June 2, 2015 Posted June 2, 2015 (edited) you need to state the obvious yet blame EJ (a veritable rookie) but not a 10 year pro (IIRC replaced by Tim Tebow) Where did you pull "veritable" out of? Didn't think you had that one in you. Perfect usage too. But before I let this go, now that you are on record saying that the Bills would have finished 13-3 if they stuck with Manuel last year, that means that they would have had homefield throughout the playoffs. Do you think they would have went to the Super Bowl? Do you think they would have won the Super Bowl? Just curious. for a LONG while in Oct and Nov you and Chan and about 3 to 6 others did until Captain Obvious showed up. Lastly - knowing this, why not turn the reins back over to the young guy to see what he could or could not do? I'm done "arguing" with you on this today. Enjoy. Through the Jets game last year, EVERYONE thought he was the answer to the question, "who gives the Bills a better chance to win this season?" Of course he was. And he probably was all season. When you say "answer" you are intimating that people think/thought for one second that he was a long term solution, which nobody ever did. Edited June 2, 2015 by metzelaars_lives
BillsFan-4-Ever Posted June 2, 2015 Posted June 2, 2015 Where did you pull "veritable" out of? Didn't think you had that one in you. Perfect usage too. But before I let this go, now that you are on record saying that the Bills would have finished 13-3 if they stuck with Manuel last year, that means that they would have had homefield throughout the playoffs. Do you think they would have went to the Super Bowl? Do you think they would have won the Super Bowl? Just curious. Through the Jets game last year, EVERYONE thought he was the answer to the question, "who gives the Bills a better chance to win this season?" Of course he was. And he probably was all season. When you say "answer" you are intimating that people think/thought for one second that he was a long term solution, which nobody ever did. real mature.. I had thought better of you Metz. up until the END of Sept he had 10 games started. No? what else would one call it? Oh wait EJ is special and the rules of judgement are special just for him Only 100 more days of QB arguments before the season starts with EJ as he #1 QB!!!
metzelaars_lives Posted June 2, 2015 Posted June 2, 2015 real mature.. I had thought better of you Metz. up until the END of Sept he had 10 games started. No? what else would one call it? Oh wait EJ is special and the rules of judgement are special just for him Only 100 more days of QB arguments before the season starts with EJ as he #1 QB!!! Apologies for the condescending post. OK but where do you stand on how last season shakes out with the 13-3 Manuel-led Bills in the playoffs? Do they win the Super Bowl?
thebandit27 Posted June 2, 2015 Posted June 2, 2015 You do realize that you two epitomize why football is a team game and it's generally considered stupid to tag one player or even one unit on the team with a win or loss? Hopeful, that was my entire point. I responded to a post saying that Orton deserved zero blame for the loss. I merely said that that wasn't the case.
Nanker Posted June 2, 2015 Posted June 2, 2015 Sweet Jumpin' Jesus! I hope EJ wins the starting QB job and we go 19-0 this year.
Orange Posted June 2, 2015 Posted June 2, 2015 Or was it the defense doing it's part despite an offense who went from 7:24 of the first quarter until 1:02 of the second quarter without a first down. After the second Bills drive of the game(which ended with a KO Int.) the Bills drives for the rest of the 1st half are as follows: 3 plays 5 yds 1:34, 3 plays 4 yds 1:24, 3 plays 2yds 0:41, 3 plays 3 yds 0:47, 3 plays 2 yds 1:29, 8 plays 41 yds 1:11. How anyone can defend that is beyond me. 6 drives 23 plays for 57 yds and only 7 minutes and 6 seconds of possession time. How is a defense suppose to get a breather when the offense, for 6 straight drives, has the ball for an average of 1 minute 1 second? I see the glaring failure. It's an offense that looked like the worst in the NFL and was led by Kyle Orton.Right without a running game; every one of those drives suffered because a nonexistent running game. 13 yds the whole game. The defense knew he was going to pass it, knew it was going to woods or jackson slmost every time and he still put up 3 tds.
LB3 Posted June 2, 2015 Posted June 2, 2015 (edited) After reading through the past few pages, I believe that Orange is the reincarnation of NDBUFFCUSEFAN. Posting style is very similar. Digs in on a bad take and gets indignant about it. If he offers to bet money on the argument (like how the Bills had no shot at beating Chicago last year), we'll know for sure. Edited June 2, 2015 by LBSeeBallLBGetBall
LOVEMESOMEBILLS Posted June 2, 2015 Posted June 2, 2015 Right without a running game; every one of those drives suffered because a nonexistent running game. 13 yds the whole game. The defense knew he was going to pass it, knew it was going to woods or jackson slmost every time and he still put up 3 tds. Hmmm. really? Of the 49 pass attempts Jackson and Woods were targeted only 21 times not almost every time, but only 42% of the time. For the record Hogan had as many targets as Woods(9) and Sammy wasn't far off with 7 and Chandler 6. Take Fred out of the equation and the ball was spread pretty evenly. Targets for the game: 12, 9, 9, 7, 6, 4, 2. Heck you can't even blame the OL in this 51 drop-backs only two sacks and 6 QB hits. This coming from a QB that never met a sack he didn't like. Cue: fetal position.
Solomon Grundy Posted June 2, 2015 Posted June 2, 2015 when you readily admit that Orton WAS NOT the answer .... why you refuse to accept any other conclusion if dumbfounding!!! I think that (you) not admitting the possibility of 13 wins does make you an EJ basher. Only 100 more days of QB arguments before the season starts!!! Am I the only one here that thinks EJ can be good? the obvious answer is NO. So please add the name of every other member in support of EJ. I can only imagine the therapy the EJ detractors will have to suffer through when he's named the starter Add me to the list cause I'M A EJ MANUEL FAN!!
Thurman#1 Posted June 2, 2015 Posted June 2, 2015 You really think they carry 3 qbs? Cassell is a lock, and Rex (who's very much a 'thats my guy' coach) loves Taylor Put me down for believing that one. Taylor is in my opinion going to be used a few plays a game in sub-packages to force teams to spend extra prep time to deal with them. My guess is that Cassel will win the competition and my hope is that EJ will improve a lot but not quite enough to beat out Cassell. If he does so, yeah, I'd guess he'll be on the team in case of injuries and in hopes that his development will continue and next year he might be good enough to edge Cassel out.
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