....lybob Posted June 2, 2015 Share Posted June 2, 2015 So you're allowing all sorts of non-operating deductions (and you're not even sure which ones), while forbidding at least one. And simultaneously changing how health care and retirement are handled in this country. And double-taxing some of it. Great plan. Not only do you not have the answers, you don't even know which questions to ask. You really are an idiot. A nation state can not exist without taxes and all tax systems are arbitrary and unfair, I like the unfairness and arbitrary nature of the tax system I propose compared to the unfairness and arbitrary nature of the existing tax system or other tax systems I've seen proposed on this board. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DC Tom Posted June 2, 2015 Share Posted June 2, 2015 A nation state can not exist without taxes and all tax systems are arbitrary and unfair, I like the unfairness and arbitrary nature of the tax system I propose compared to the unfairness and arbitrary nature of the existing tax system or other tax systems I've seen proposed on this board. Of course you like it. You don't even understand it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reddogblitz Posted June 2, 2015 Share Posted June 2, 2015 (edited) No, what they think is that since corporations have been cutting worker benefits and support for decades, government has to fill in the gap, and therefore corporations must pay for the government programs covering benefits corporations eliminated. Like how McDonalds pays their employees so little that they get welfare and food stamps which is payed for by whom? Whether you think these people should pull themselves up by their bootstraps and get better jobs or not, the fact of the matter is McDonalds pays them below the poverty level, knows it, and helps their employees get more money from the government (us). Corporate and consumer welfare all rolled into one. Exactly what you think they think is happening. Edited June 2, 2015 by reddogblitz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alaska Darin Posted June 2, 2015 Share Posted June 2, 2015 Like how McDonalds pays their employees so little that they get welfare and food stamps which is payed for by whom? Whether you think these people should pull themselves up by their bootstraps and get better jobs or not, the fact of the matter is McDonalds pays them below the poverty level, knows it, and helps their employees get more money from the government (us). Corporate and consumer welfare all rolled into one. Exactly what you think they think is happening. Until GWB was President, a good portion of the military junior enlisted population was in exactly the same boat - especially if they had kids. We're heading back down that road again. http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/06/19/food-stamps-military_n_3462465.html http://money.cnn.com/2014/02/17/news/economy/military-food-stamps/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DC Tom Posted June 2, 2015 Share Posted June 2, 2015 Until GWB was President, a good portion of the military junior enlisted population was in exactly the same boat - especially if they had kids. We're heading back down that road again. http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/06/19/food-stamps-military_n_3462465.html http://money.cnn.com/2014/02/17/news/economy/military-food-stamps/ And that's with a ridiculous portion of DoD's budget going to HR. The FY2015 budget has about $135B for HR...Walmart pays about 60% of that for roughly the same size workforce, for roughly the same result (lower-wage grunts not getting a living wage.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IDBillzFan Posted June 2, 2015 Share Posted June 2, 2015 Until GWB was President, a good portion of the military junior enlisted population was in exactly the same boat - especially if they had kids. We're heading back down that road again. http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/06/19/food-stamps-military_n_3462465.html http://money.cnn.com/2014/02/17/news/economy/military-food-stamps/ Why is it every time I click on a link to the Huffington Post, the first thing I see is some wacky-looking nutbag chick dressed like a circus clown? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dante Posted June 2, 2015 Share Posted June 2, 2015 (edited) A nation state can not exist without taxes and all tax systems are arbitrary and unfair, I like the unfairness and arbitrary nature of the tax system I propose compared to the unfairness and arbitrary nature of the existing tax system or other tax systems I've seen proposed on this board. I regard most taxation as legalized pillaging. Every penny they steal should be fought. It's not the governments money or the communities it's mine I worked for it. It's basically immoral for them to feel they can access my property at will to distribute as they like. Anyway, a lot of taxes could probably be replaced by user fees. That way at least everything would be properly accounted for. Edited June 2, 2015 by Dante Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IDBillzFan Posted June 2, 2015 Share Posted June 2, 2015 I regard most taxation as legalized pillaging. Every penny they steal should be fought. It's not the governments money or the communities it's mine I worked for it. It's basically immoral for them to feel they can access my property at will to distribute as they like. Anyway, a lot of taxes could probably be replaced by user fees. That way at least everything would be properly accounted for. You're trying to convince a liberal that your money actually belongs to you? Good luck with that. The whole premise of "you didn't build that" starts and ends with the liberal belief that you are a working cog in the wheel that is the federal government. Nothing more. Nothing less. Obey and get freebies. Disobey and get audited. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reddogblitz Posted June 2, 2015 Share Posted June 2, 2015 One of the best reasons for a national sales tax or Fair Tax or whatever you want to call it is people will know exactly how much they pay in taxes to the Fed. Now most people don't know. They know their net but not their gross. Once people got wind of it, they may change their tune. Also a good reason why the governing class is so against. it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dante Posted June 2, 2015 Share Posted June 2, 2015 You're trying to convince a liberal that your money actually belongs to you? Good luck with that. The whole premise of "you didn't build that" starts and ends with the liberal belief that you are a working cog in the wheel that is the federal government. Nothing more. Nothing less. Obey and get freebies. Disobey and get audited. I know. It's kind of a normalcy bias now. Taxation is accepted as "just the way it is." People over time have grown or been brainwashed to accept it when really it has to be reinforced that it's their property. No one accepts it when a thief steals a identity and rips off your bank account. This is basically the same thing only the powers that be made a law saying it's legal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chef Jim Posted June 3, 2015 Share Posted June 3, 2015 One of the best reasons for a national sales tax or Fair Tax or whatever you want to call it is people will know exactly how much they pay in taxes to the Fed. Now most people don't know. They know their net but not their gross. Once people got wind of it, they may change their tune. Also a good reason why the governing class is so against. it. You know you're absolutely right! It's so hard to look at your pay stub and figure out how much you've paid. I've said it and I'll say it again. I would love everyone saying taxes should be higher to file exempt and have to write a check at the end of the year or quarterly. That's when you really feel it. I do that every quarter and those checks are a B word to write. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IDBillzFan Posted June 3, 2015 Share Posted June 3, 2015 People over time have grown or been brainwashed to accept it when really it has to be reinforced that it's their property. No one accepts it when a thief steals a identity and rips off your bank account. These are the same people who believe a tax refund is extra money. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Azalin Posted June 3, 2015 Share Posted June 3, 2015 You know you're absolutely right! It's so hard to look at your pay stub and figure out how much you've paid. I've said it and I'll say it again. I would love everyone saying taxes should be higher to file exempt and have to write a check at the end of the year or quarterly. That's when you really feel it. I do that every quarter and those checks are a B word to write. Amen, brother. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3rdnlng Posted June 3, 2015 Share Posted June 3, 2015 One of the best reasons for a national sales tax or Fair Tax or whatever you want to call it is people will know exactly how much they pay in taxes to the Fed. Now most people don't know. They know their net but not their gross. Once people got wind of it, they may change their tune. Also a good reason why the governing class is so against. it. I am a "Fair Tax" kind of guy. The governing class is against it because it takes power away from them. My fear is that if we ever go to a consumption tax is that it ends up being a Value Added Tax (VAT), which would be worse than what we have now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
unbillievable Posted June 3, 2015 Share Posted June 3, 2015 One of the best reasons for a national sales tax or Fair Tax or whatever you want to call it is people will know exactly how much they pay in taxes to the Fed. Now most people don't know. They know their net but not their gross. Once people got wind of it, they may change their tune. Also a good reason why the governing class is so against. it. That's why countries with high sales taxes (and VAT) enacted laws forcing businesses to include the tax in their pricing to hide just how much the government is confiscating. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nanker Posted June 3, 2015 Share Posted June 3, 2015 Man, this thread grew. Lots of gold here. Corporations should pay ZERO income tax. It all gets passed down to the consumer anyway. It's a cost of doing business. When costs go up, prices go up. Yes, please. I'll incorporate myself the minute that happens. Are 401k's an operating expense? How about health care? Vacation/sick time? Advertising? R&D? Financial servicing expenses? Executive bonuses? Futures holdings for hedging FOREX risk? Once I incorporate myself, screw it - my corporation self will get all the deductions... and it'll be paying zero taxes. Brilliant! You know you're absolutely right! It's so hard to look at your pay stub and figure out how much you've paid. I've said it and I'll say it again. I would love everyone saying taxes should be higher to file exempt and have to write a check at the end of the year or quarterly. That's when you really feel it. I do that every quarter and those checks are a B word to write. The fiscal twin to William Burrough's Naked Lunch. Most Americans are as numb as a heroin addict when it comes to money and finance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillsFanM.D. Posted June 3, 2015 Share Posted June 3, 2015 These are the same people who believe a tax refund is extra money. It is extra money....for the government. Interest free all year long. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keepthefaith Posted June 3, 2015 Share Posted June 3, 2015 A nation state can not exist without taxes and all tax systems are arbitrary and unfair, I like the unfairness and arbitrary nature of the tax system I propose compared to the unfairness and arbitrary nature of the existing tax system or other tax systems I've seen proposed on this board. My belief is that everyone should pay Federal income at nearly the same percentage of their income. A lower bracket at the bottom of the income scale (maybe below $40K/year and adjusted for inflation) and a single upper bracket would be fairer than what we have now and puts skin in the game for all. We should not have a substantial portion of voters paying no tax nor should we have political parties determining who gets taxed at higher or lower rates. Taxes should only be adjusted across the board equally to take the politics out of the equation. Government should strive to be as efficient as possible and take as little from people as is necessary. Deductions to encourage positive behavior should remain in the tax code (home ownership, marriage, health care savings and expenses, retirement and education). The freedom of one person is not worth more than the freedom of another and all should contribute more equally. By taxing all at more similar rates, we all view government spending and behavior from a more similar perspective. Somehow even through decades of Democrat leadership here in Illinois, we have a flat state income tax at 3.75%. We have huge budget issues and now a Republican governor who wants to fix the problem and address the spending side first. A huge political showdown is coming. Democrats have zero ability now to ask the "rich" to pay more. They are being forced to solve a problem which will impact all voters the same way. It's a beautiful thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nanker Posted June 3, 2015 Share Posted June 3, 2015 Any income tax system that is tiered is inherently unfair. It violates the equal protection clause of the U. S. Constitution. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dante Posted June 3, 2015 Share Posted June 3, 2015 Any income tax system that is tiered is inherently unfair. It violates the equal protection clause of the U. S. Constitution. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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