Bocephuz Posted May 28, 2015 Posted May 28, 2015 First of all... I am all for the Dareus extension.. .let's get it done. Secondly.. there will be costs ( not just financial) associated with this extension due to salary cap ramifications... particularly in 2016. What are you willing to give up in future years in order lock up Dareus long term? Are you willing to give up Percy Harvin? Leodis McKelvin? Chris Williams ( ok.. CW is kind of a no brainer)? What if a high quality FA QB pops up on the market in 2016( Phillip Rivers/ Brees???) and we don't have the cap space to sign them due to the Dareus extension? Also.. Mario Williams will certainly need to restructure his deal to give the Bills some breathing room in 2016 and beyond if Dareus extends. Do you think Mario will restructure? According to http://overthecap.com/calculator/buffalo-bills/ here's what the Bills situation looks like now...( pre Dareus restructure) 2015 - $6.5 mil in cap space 2016 - $1.5 mil in cap space We certainly have room in 2015 to restructure Dareus .. however.. after plugging in a reasonable contract for Dareus into this tool... the Bills will certainly go over the cap substantially in 2016.. and that is after assuming the Bills cut Williams, Harvin and McKelvin in 2016 to get under the cap. The only way we can get this done and make it work long term is to have Super Mario restructure.. and even if he does that .. we will only have ~ $5 mil or so to spend for FA and rookies in 2016. So here's the hypothetical.... would you be willing to let Dareus go in order to free up money in 2016 for the cap room to sign/ trade for the best FA vet QB on the market in 2016?
PromoTheRobot Posted May 28, 2015 Posted May 28, 2015 (edited) You have to wonder why any decent QB would become available. I guess I'm asking if you'd rather the bird in the hand? Edited May 28, 2015 by PromoTheRobot
Nanker Posted May 28, 2015 Posted May 28, 2015 This is a controversy from which I prefer to remain aloof.
YoloinOhio Posted May 28, 2015 Posted May 28, 2015 No, I would rather sign Dareus and draft a QB in the first round next year
thebandit27 Posted May 28, 2015 Posted May 28, 2015 First of all... I am all for the Dareus extension.. .let's get it done. Secondly.. there will be costs ( not just financial) associated with this extension due to salary cap ramifications... particularly in 2016. What are you willing to give up in future years in order lock up Dareus long term? Are you willing to give up Percy Harvin? Leodis McKelvin? Chris Williams ( ok.. CW is kind of a no brainer)? What if a high quality FA QB pops up on the market in 2016( Phillip Rivers/ Brees???) and we don't have the cap space to sign them due to the Dareus extension? Also.. Mario Williams will certainly need to restructure his deal to give the Bills some breathing room in 2016 and beyond if Dareus extends. Do you think Mario will restructure? According to http://overthecap.com/calculator/buffalo-bills/ here's what the Bills situation looks like now...( pre Dareus restructure) 2015 - $6.5 mil in cap space 2016 - $1.5 mil in cap space We certainly have room in 2015 to restructure Dareus .. however.. after plugging in a reasonable contract for Dareus into this tool... the Bills will certainly go over the cap substantially in 2016.. and that is after assuming the Bills cut Williams, Harvin and McKelvin in 2016 to get under the cap. The only way we can get this done and make it work long term is to have Super Mario restructure.. and even if he does that .. we will only have ~ $5 mil or so to spend for FA and rookies in 2016. So here's the hypothetical.... would you be willing to let Dareus go in order to free up money in 2016 for the cap room to sign/ trade for the best FA vet QB on the market in 2016? No. I want to sign Dareus. I think the answer lies in signing Mario to a new deal instead of restructuring. It gives him a huge sum of money up front, but allows the team to spread the cap hit over the entire contract. In theory, if they gave him a new, 4-year deal worth $65M with $32M guaranteed, they could load 1/4 of the contract into base salary in the final year, keep the base salaries low for the 1st 3 years, and bring his cap hit down to $11Mish for the next 3 years. That would create the cap relief they need, and give them an opportunity to let him go after 3 more years without a huge dead money hit. Dareus' deal probably won't have a huge hit in the first year (same with Glenn, Bradham, and Gilmore), so that means that they can throw a big 1st-year sum at a QB if they so choose. JMO
Bocephuz Posted May 28, 2015 Author Posted May 28, 2015 You have to wonder why any decent QB would become available. I guess I'm asking if you'd rather the bird in the hand? I agree .. a bird in the hand is worth 2 in the bush. And Dareus is a rare bird. Just making the point that we will have very little FA money and not much flexibility to extend others the next few years if we restructure Dareus now.
seq004 Posted May 28, 2015 Posted May 28, 2015 (edited) I agree .. a bird in the hand is worth 2 in the bush. And Dareus is a rare bird. Just making the point that we will have very little FA money and not much flexibility to extend others the next few years if we restructure Dareus now. I'm all for signing Dareus, but what is the plan at qb? Are we just going to keep getting mediocre qbs and hoping that someone, anyone can lead this team back? I don't follow a lot of college, so I have no idea what they are doing at that vital position. Edited May 28, 2015 by seq004
YoloinOhio Posted May 28, 2015 Posted May 28, 2015 I agree .. a bird in the hand is worth 2 in the bush. And Dareus is a rare bird. Just making the point that we will have very little FA money and not much flexibility to extend others the next few years if we restructure Dareus now. whaley announced the Bills will not be big players in the FA market next year for this reason. He said they will be focusing on signing their own FAs (specifically named Dareus, Glenn, Gilmore, Bradham) and that the 2016 draft will be a huge one as well as they need to add cheap talent (paraphrasing) in lieu of FA next year
JoeF Posted May 28, 2015 Posted May 28, 2015 Bills will define about 11 core players -- who will have more than one contract cycle with the team... - 4 Defensive Lineman - Preston Brown - Gilmore - Watkins - Clay - An OL (likely a T) - A QB - McCoy Get ready for a lot of movement outside of this group. This group will likely take up 60% the cap or $90 million....leaving about $60 million for the remaining 40 salaries (the 51 highest salaries count toward the cap)...which is a $1.5 million average...for every $4 million a year guy in the bottom 40 the Bills need 3 $700,000 guys to balance this out...lots of rookies, street free agents make up the last 20 or so guys on the top 51...scouting is key.
Dibs Posted May 28, 2015 Posted May 28, 2015 (edited) First of all... I am all for the Dareus extension.. .let's get it done. Secondly.. there will be costs ( not just financial) associated with this extension due to salary cap ramifications... particularly in 2016. What are you willing to give up in future years in order lock up Dareus long term? Are you willing to give up Percy Harvin? Leodis McKelvin? Chris Williams ( ok.. CW is kind of a no brainer)? What if a high quality FA QB pops up on the market in 2016( Phillip Rivers/ Brees???) and we don't have the cap space to sign them due to the Dareus extension? Also.. Mario Williams will certainly need to restructure his deal to give the Bills some breathing room in 2016 and beyond if Dareus extends. Do you think Mario will restructure? According to http://overthecap.com/calculator/buffalo-bills/ here's what the Bills situation looks like now...( pre Dareus restructure) 2015 - $6.5 mil in cap space 2016 - $1.5 mil in cap space We certainly have room in 2015 to restructure Dareus .. however.. after plugging in a reasonable contract for Dareus into this tool... the Bills will certainly go over the cap substantially in 2016.. and that is after assuming the Bills cut Williams, Harvin and McKelvin in 2016 to get under the cap. The only way we can get this done and make it work long term is to have Super Mario restructure.. and even if he does that .. we will only have ~ $5 mil or so to spend for FA and rookies in 2016. So here's the hypothetical.... would you be willing to let Dareus go in order to free up money in 2016 for the cap room to sign/ trade for the best FA vet QB on the market in 2016? There is no need at all for this sort of panic. Though it is difficult to determine the current top 51 for 2016 at this point, I'll stick with your $1.5M of cap space next year. The cap will be going up by around $10M...bringing cap space to $11.5M. We will carry over the $7M from this year....... $18.5M. The Harvin contract has already been triggered so yrs 2&3 are void...adding $8M from your figures....... $26.5M The $10M lump payment for Clay will undoubtedly be reworked to a new SB adding $7.5M($8M?)....... $34M. On top of that we can save many millions by extending Mario(he has already stated that he will rework his contract if needed). The Bills have everything under control. Edited May 28, 2015 by Dibs
Dibs Posted May 28, 2015 Posted May 28, 2015 I'm all for signing Dareus, but what is the plan at qb? Are we just going to keep getting mediocre qbs and hoping that someone, anyone can lead this team back? I don't follow a lot of college, so I have no idea what they are doing at that vital position. If we manage to find a top shelf QB(and with an emense amount of luck we already have one on the roster), we can restructure the team by shedding some players when we need to pay said QB. The chances a top QB becomes a FA are slim....and then far slimmer that the Bills can land him over the 20 other interested teams. Therefore we will very most likely find said QB at a cheap price initially(via draft or cheap unproven FA), which will give amply time to adjust the roster. Again, no need to panic.
BillsVet Posted May 28, 2015 Posted May 28, 2015 Bills will define about 11 core players -- who will have more than one contract cycle with the team... - 4 Defensive Lineman - Preston Brown - Gilmore - Watkins - Clay - An OL (likely a T) - A QB - McCoy Get ready for a lot of movement outside of this group. This group will likely take up 60% the cap or $90 million....leaving about $60 million for the remaining 40 salaries (the 51 highest salaries count toward the cap)...which is a $1.5 million average...for every $4 million a year guy in the bottom 40 the Bills need 3 $700,000 guys to balance this out...lots of rookies, street free agents make up the last 20 or so guys on the top 51...scouting is key. You've gotta wonder if they'll attempt to renegotiate Mario's contract. He's going into the 4th year of a 6 year deal and the cap hit is substantial each year IIRC.
BillsFanM.D. Posted May 28, 2015 Posted May 28, 2015 There is no need at all for this sort of panic. Though it is difficult to determine the current top 51 for 2016 at this point, I'll stick with your $1.5M of cap space next year. The cap will be going up by around $10M...bringing cap space to $11.5M. We will carry over the $7M from this year....... $18.5M. The Harvin contract has already been triggered so yrs 2&3 are void...adding $8M from your figures....... $26.5M The $10M lump payment for Clay will undoubtedly be reworked to a new SB adding $7.5M($8M?)....... $34M. On top of that we can save many millions by extending Mario(he has already stated that he will rework his contract if needed). The Bills have everything under control. Nice clarification. Thx.
Coach Tuesday Posted May 28, 2015 Posted May 28, 2015 Bills will define about 11 core players -- who will have more than one contract cycle with the team... - 4 Defensive Lineman - Preston Brown - Gilmore - Watkins - Clay - An OL (likely a T) - A QB - McCoy Get ready for a lot of movement outside of this group. This group will likely take up 60% the cap or $90 million....leaving about $60 million for the remaining 40 salaries (the 51 highest salaries count toward the cap)...which is a $1.5 million average...for every $4 million a year guy in the bottom 40 the Bills need 3 $700,000 guys to balance this out...lots of rookies, street free agents make up the last 20 or so guys on the top 51...scouting is key. Excellent post.
Hapless Bills Fan Posted May 28, 2015 Posted May 28, 2015 First of all... I am all for the Dareus extension.. .let's get it done. Secondly.. there will be costs ( not just financial) associated with this extension due to salary cap ramifications... particularly in 2016. What are you willing to give up in future years in order lock up Dareus long term? Are you willing to give up Percy Harvin? Leodis McKelvin? Chris Williams ( ok.. CW is kind of a no brainer)? What if a high quality FA QB pops up on the market in 2016( Phillip Rivers/ Brees???) and we don't have the cap space to sign them due to the Dareus extension? Also.. Mario Williams will certainly need to restructure his deal to give the Bills some breathing room in 2016 and beyond if Dareus extends. Do you think Mario will restructure? According to http://overthecap.com/calculator/buffalo-bills/ here's what the Bills situation looks like now...( pre Dareus restructure) 2015 - $6.5 mil in cap space 2016 - $1.5 mil in cap space We certainly have room in 2015 to restructure Dareus .. however.. after plugging in a reasonable contract for Dareus into this tool... the Bills will certainly go over the cap substantially in 2016.. and that is after assuming the Bills cut Williams, Harvin and McKelvin in 2016 to get under the cap. The only way we can get this done and make it work long term is to have Super Mario restructure.. and even if he does that .. we will only have ~ $5 mil or so to spend for FA and rookies in 2016. So here's the hypothetical.... would you be willing to let Dareus go in order to free up money in 2016 for the cap room to sign/ trade for the best FA vet QB on the market in 2016? The thing is, I just don't believe a high quality FA QB hits the market, period. At least not a guy who can be a long term solution. Every team faces the same conondrum: without a quality QB, you aren't going to win. Look at the QB who may be FA and ask "who is that team's alternative and would I want him running the Bills O?" If the answer is "Hell to the No", then there's your answer to whether that QB will be available. Unless he is pushing 40 and definitely on the downhill slide, in which case my hypothetical is, "do you want to mortgage the Bills future for a guy who may already be out of gas, or at most have 1-2 years?" I think right now our line is having fun - it must be rewarding to be recognized as one of the best DL in the NFL. If we win, or even if he feels we have a reasonable chance to win, Mario will have skin in the game of wanting to restructure to keep the line together.
mitchmurraydowntown Posted May 28, 2015 Posted May 28, 2015 Personally, I'd like to see some success the way the team is set up now before committing the balance of our cap to the strongest part of our team (versus the weakest part, QB). There's a chance that we can lure a Drew Brees or some other QB away from another team as needed & use Dareus as trade bait, I'd be all in. I like Dareus and all but reality is we are committing too many resources to Rex's favorite project, the defense. I'd like to switch that money towards a missing piece, the QB. Like I said, loading up on the strongest part of the team may not lead to more success. Lets see how it goes.
kota Posted May 28, 2015 Posted May 28, 2015 I think you are worrying about this to much. It can be done. I personally believe OverDorf is a master at managing the CAP. For years people thought he was the true decision maker. It sounds like Doug and Jim have a great relationship. Doug has ideas, he goes to Jim to see what happens with the cap, Doug makes a decision. Dareus is worth more than any of the guys you mentioned including Bree's and possibly rivers. He's still young, is a pro bowl player and go back to the games where he was benched by Marrone for being late or out hurt. Teams ran all over the Bills without him in the middle. Thanks.
boyst Posted May 28, 2015 Posted May 28, 2015 Personally, I'd like to see some success the way the team is set up now before committing the balance of our cap to the strongest part of our team (versus the weakest part, QB). There's a chance that we can lure a Drew Brees or some other QB away from another team as needed & use Dareus as trade bait, I'd be all in. I like Dareus and all but reality is we are committing too many resources to Rex's favorite project, the defense. I'd like to switch that money towards a missing piece, the QB. Like I said, loading up on the strongest part of the team may not lead to more success. Lets see how it goes. there is??? No. There isn't. Don't want him next year, don't want him now, didn't want him 2 years ago.
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