What a Tuel Posted June 9, 2015 Posted June 9, 2015 The problem with the arguments on this board is that there are crossed up opinions and arguments. You refute one argument, and someone else comes at you with something else entirely different. I respond to the people that think the Super Bowl wins are tarnished (That's the stance of MANY here). I don't see why non-compliance should affect their "legacy"...but I'm pretty sure someone here is going to come up with a silly reason why it should. I am fine with the penalties that have been meted out. They deserve that. Do you not understand that this wouldn't have been such a huge issue if Brady would have tackled the issue head on instead of acting like an idiot going "I dunno that is shocking! " He tried to play everyone for a fool, and so naturally everyone will tear him down for it.
Mr. WEO Posted June 9, 2015 Posted June 9, 2015 Any talk of stripping titles is stupid, plain and simple. The apologist in question is the author of the article you linked, not you, necessarily. It's not about deflated footballs and never was. The author's insistence that Brady is being punished for that sounds like the same lament of Pats** fans everywhere. And trotting out Joe Montana to trumpet the tired " everybody does it" mantra is irresponsible. Everybody certainly does NOT refuse the league rule to cooperate in investigations. Not even Joe Montana. As to the rest of it, that's just your conscience getting to you. GO BILLS!!! So if Brady had just copped to it and cooperated there would have been no suspension? No Fine? No loss of picks? The suspension is explicity for “violations of the NFL Policy on Integrity of the Game and Enforcement of Competitive Rules.” There may an extra few games tossed in for refusing to (fully) cooperate, but... you're wrong---the suspension is first and foremost for the defaltion of balls. And a person writing an article including quotes of Montana from a different interview to make his point is "irresponsible"? How so?
OCinBuffalo Posted June 9, 2015 Posted June 9, 2015 He tried to play everyone for a fool, and so naturally everyone will tear him down for it. That's what this is plain and simple. Brady/Pats apologists(regardless of whether they accept that moniker) can post as many times as they like, when they get done? The above will still be true. So, if anyone is going to make any points about this issue at all, without incorporating the above? They are wasting everyone's time. There is no avoiding the above. There is no "yeah, but". Deal with it. Listen to what people are saying in other NFL cities that have nothing to do with the AFC, never mind the AFC East. They have more to say and worse things to say, than what has been said here. The notion that there's some sort of "obsession", or rage fest, with this issue, on this board, or amongst Bills fans, is absurd. Not when you see what has been said elsewhere.
K-9 Posted June 9, 2015 Posted June 9, 2015 (edited) So if Brady had just copped to it and cooperated there would have been no suspension? No Fine? No loss of picks? The suspension is explicity for violations of the NFL Policy on Integrity of the Game and Enforcement of Competitive Rules. There may an extra few games tossed in for refusing to (fully) cooperate, but... you're wrong---the suspension is first and foremost for the defaltion of balls. And a person writing an article including quotes of Montana from a different interview to make his point is "irresponsible"? How so? Cooperating with the investigation is a far cry from copping to any wrongdoing. Ridiculous to imply otherwise. Hard to say what his punishment would have been if he cooperated as we don't know what his cooperation would have revealed. Can't say for sure if he broke a silly rule about air pressure or not. Can say for certain that he broke a league rule about cooperating with an investigation. Hard to believe he didn't cooperate because he possessed exculpatory evidence. Easy for the investigation to clear the low hurdle as a result. So by not cooperating and breaking that rule, Tommy caused his own injury. No mention of that by the author and that's why it was an irresponsible omission. Montana only reiterated a long held truth about players doing things outside the spirit of the rules to gain an advantage. Nothing new and nothing anyone would be that upset about. There now. I have explained it as concisely as possible. So easy, even a Pats** fan can understand it. GO BILLS!!! Edited June 9, 2015 by K-9
papazoid Posted June 9, 2015 Posted June 9, 2015 Joe Montana: Deflate-gate 'no big deal,' his 49ers used illegal silicone Well between Montana's silicone admission and Jerry Rice's admission he used stickum, those SF championships need an asterisk, right? where is the outrage against the 49er's ??
K-9 Posted June 9, 2015 Posted June 9, 2015 Joe Montana: Deflate-gate 'no big deal,' his 49ers used illegal silicone Well between Montana's silicone admission and Jerry Rice's [/size]admission he used stickum, those SF championships need an asterisk, right?[/size] where is the outrage against the 49er's ??[/size] It's silly to call for astericks and forfeitures for deflated balls, stickum, or silicon. But if you want to take up the cause and demand it, more power to you. The Patriots* deserve the asterisk for their illegal video recordings, though. And once the stink of being a cheater sticks, it's really hard to get it off. Kraft or somebody advising him was smart enough to realize that before they embarrassed themselves further in their latest escapade. GO BILLS!!!
BillsFan-4-Ever Posted June 9, 2015 Posted June 9, 2015 (edited) So if Brady had just copped to it and cooperated there would have been no suspension? No Fine? No loss of picks? The suspension is explicity for “violations of the NFL Policy on Integrity of the Game and Enforcement of Competitive Rules.” There may an extra few games tossed in for refusing to (fully) cooperate, but... you're wrong---the suspension is first and foremost for the defaltion of balls. And a person writing an article including quotes of Montana from a different interview to make his point is "irresponsible"? How so? IF he did, the tarnish would still need to be polished off the NFL Shield from the infraction and I would suspect with a lesser punishment. Edited June 9, 2015 by BillsFan-4-Ever
Mr. WEO Posted June 10, 2015 Posted June 10, 2015 Cooperating with the investigation is a far cry from copping to any wrongdoing. Ridiculous to imply otherwise. Hard to say what his punishment would have been if he cooperated as we don't know what his cooperation would have revealed. So easy, even a Pats** fan can understand it. GO BILLS!!! Well, if he admitted wrongdoing initially, there would have been no further investigation needed. Yours is a nonsense reply. You just said this has nothing to do deflated balls. So if that is true, how can you then say his punishment may have been different (obviously more severe you are implying) had he cooperated? What, other than....deflating balls (which this "never was about"), do you think it would have revealed? The whereabouts of Jimmy Hoffa? The Lindburgh Baby? Oh, wait...the Rams SB "walkthrough tape"?! And the "pats fan" is always a white flag....
K-9 Posted June 10, 2015 Posted June 10, 2015 Well, if he admitted wrongdoing initially, there would have been no further investigation needed. Yours is a nonsense reply. You just said this has nothing to do deflated balls. So if that is true, how can you then say his punishment may have been different (obviously more severe you are implying) had he cooperated? What, other than....deflating balls (which this "never was about"), do you think it would have revealed? The whereabouts of Jimmy Hoffa? The Lindburgh Baby? Oh, wait...the Rams SB "walkthrough tape"?! And the "pats fan" is always a white flag.... You seem to continue to have confusion about "admitting wrongdoing" and co-operating with the investigation. They are not mutually inclusive ideas. No wonder it reads as nonsense to you; you can't understand the concept in the first place. Perhaps I should have said "little to nothing to do with deflated balls." It's what prompted the investigation, afterall. Is that better? And yes, his punishment would have been a slap on the wrist if he had co-operated AND was still found to have been culpable. Maybe, if he had exculpatory evidence, he would have been exonerated completely and not punished at all. But we'll never know because Tommy decided to break league rules by not cooperating in the first place. But hey, at least your favorite owner had the good sense to realize he was just making it worse and decided to forego his earlier nonsense. I gotta give him credit for that even if Pats* nation wants to disown him for doing so. And "pats fan" always seems to strike the same nerve. I believe that's your own special sign of surrender. GO BILLS!!!
Mr. WEO Posted June 10, 2015 Posted June 10, 2015 (edited) You seem to continue to have confusion about "admitting wrongdoing" and co-operating with the investigation. They are not mutually inclusive ideas. No wonder it reads as nonsense to you; you can't understand the concept in the first place. Perhaps I should have said "little to nothing to do with deflated balls." It's what prompted the investigation, afterall. Is that better? And yes, his punishment would have been a slap on the wrist if he had co-operated AND was still found to have been culpable. Maybe, if he had exculpatory evidence, he would have been exonerated completely and not punished at all. But we'll never know because Tommy decided to break league rules by not cooperating in the first place. But hey, at least your favorite owner had the good sense to realize he was just making it worse and decided to forego his earlier nonsense. I gotta give him credit for that even if Pats* nation wants to disown him for doing so. And "pats fan" always seems to strike the same nerve. I believe that's your own special sign of surrender. GO BILLS!!! Come on...stand tall behind your posts! If this had nothing to do with ball deflation, what else would the investigation have found? Simple question. It's obvious to everyone that the very reason Brady didn't provide his phone texts is that there was only incriminating, no exculpatory, evidence. So what are you going on about? If Brady had admitted to everything--"yes, I directed patriots staff to deflate balls after examined by the refs. I did everything you suspect"--there would be no need for more texts, more investigation. It's really simple. There would be nothing for them to discover. Your argument makes no sense at all. And the "pats fan" argument "strikes" me as the only real argument you have. Edited June 10, 2015 by Mr. WEO
Ozymandius Posted June 10, 2015 Posted June 10, 2015 If it were no big deal, he wouldn't have lied about it. Not only is the coverup worse than the crime, but in this case, the coverup proves the extent of the crime.
K-9 Posted June 10, 2015 Posted June 10, 2015 (edited) Come on...stand tall behind your posts! If this had nothing to do with ball deflation, what else would the investigation have found? Simple question. It's obvious to everyone that the very reason Brady didn't provide his phone texts is that there was only incriminating, no exculpatory, evidence. So what are you going on about? If Brady had admitted to everything--"yes, I directed patriots staff to deflate balls after examined by the refs. I did everything you suspect"--there would be no need for more texts, more investigation. It's really simple. There would be nothing for them to discover. Your argument makes no sense at all. And the "pats fan" argument "strikes" me as the only real argument you have. You aren't understanding this at all. I am talking about Brady's punishment. PUNISHMENT! If you think his PUNISHMENT has very much to do with deflated footballs, you are wrong. The PUNISHMENT he received is for not co-operating in the investigation. If Brady had co-operated in the first place, the PUNISHMENT would have been a slap on the wrist because everyone understands that players have been trying to game the system since it began and deflating footballs doesn't rise to a serious offense. It's a misdemeanor in the grand scheme of things. And everybody knows it. That's the argument you can't seem to grasp. If you think that makes no sense at all, you are being deliberately obtuse because I don't think you're dense. As for the Pats* fan "argument", it never gets old, does it? We can set our watches to your response. Did it break your heart when your favorite owner so meekly bowed out of the fracas with the league? Are you like the rest of Pats* nation and ready to tar and feather him, too? GO BILLS!!! Edited June 10, 2015 by K-9
BillsFan-4-Ever Posted June 10, 2015 Posted June 10, 2015 (edited) sideboard video on ESPN Will 2015 be a 'fun' season for the Pats? Owner Robert Kraft predicted a fun season in New England**. ESPN's Mark Brunell on what will make it that way: "Winning is fun. … And they’re going to do that because they’re the Patriots** and they "find a way*" year in and year out to win football games." http://espn.go.com/boston/nfl/story/_/id/13045404/robert-kraft-new-england-patriots-owner-says-more-stress-part-franchise-success Edited June 10, 2015 by BillsFan-4-Ever
Mr. WEO Posted June 10, 2015 Posted June 10, 2015 You aren't understanding this at all. I am talking about Brady's punishment. PUNISHMENT! If you think his PUNISHMENT has very much to do with deflated footballs, you are wrong. The PUNISHMENT he received is for not co-operating in the investigation. If Brady had co-operated in the first place, the PUNISHMENT would have been a slap on the wrist because everyone understands that players have been trying to game the system since it began and deflating footballs doesn't rise to a serious offense. It's a misdemeanor in the grand scheme of things. And everybody knows it. That's the argument you can't seem to grasp. If you think that makes no sense at all, you are being deliberately obtuse because I don't think you're dense. As for the Pats* fan "argument", it never gets old, does it? We can set our watches to your response. Did it break your heart when your favorite owner so meekly bowed out of the fracas with the league? Are you like the rest of Pats* nation and ready to tar and feather him, too? GO BILLS!!! Yeah, I see you have written that several times now--but this is the part you are repeatedly getting wrong. The announcement by the league is explicit in that he is being punished (no CAPS needed) for both the deflation and the failure to completely cooperate. You can pretend otherwise, but made up notions aren't very persuasive. Go read the announcement by the NFL regarding this and point out the part that states he isn't being punished for deflating balls. At least you are able to concede the very dubious benefit/low seriousness of balls deflated a few PSI below legal. Kraftg was cornered and surrendered. Pretty simple as well. You shouldn't let your contempt force you into making such bad arguments.
K-9 Posted June 10, 2015 Posted June 10, 2015 Yeah, I see you have written that several times now--but this is the part you are repeatedly getting wrong. The announcement by the league is explicit in that he is being punished (no CAPS needed) for both the deflation and the failure to completely cooperate. You can pretend otherwise, but made up notions aren't very persuasive. Go read the announcement by the NFL regarding this and point out the part that states he isn't being punished for deflating balls. At least you are able to concede the very dubious benefit/low seriousness of balls deflated a few PSI below legal. Kraftg was cornered and surrendered. Pretty simple as well. You shouldn't let your contempt force you into making such bad arguments. Just because the rest of us don't rise to your level of adoration for all things Patriots*, doesn't mean we hold them in contempt. You shouldn't let your love force you into denying the obvious. GO BILLS!!!
Mr. WEO Posted June 10, 2015 Posted June 10, 2015 Just because the rest of us don't rise to your level of adoration for all things Patriots*, doesn't mean we hold them in contempt. You shouldn't let your love force you into denying the obvious. GO BILLS!!! See? You could have just answered about the part of the NFL statement that gives the reason for the suspension---it's "obvious" (you use that word without "obvious" irony) from the statement. What is it I'm denying here?
BillsFan-4-Ever Posted June 10, 2015 Posted June 10, 2015 (edited) Brady*** is a good QB BUT he and his team cheat frequently, Not only that, but he flaunts his "greatness" (achieved through cheating) in everyone's face (except his loyal fans who love his arrogance) Maybe if he had class like Aaron Rodgers, or Peyton Manning et el we TB* trasher's wouldn't be so critical of his pansyazz! Edited June 10, 2015 by BillsFan-4-Ever
K-9 Posted June 10, 2015 Posted June 10, 2015 See? You could have just answered about the part of the NFL statement that gives the reason for the suspension---it's "obvious" (you use that word without "obvious" irony) from the statement. What is it I'm denying here? You seem to be denying that if Brady had cooperated he would have received a lesser punishment, which is the only argument I have proffered. Deflated footballs are a misdemeaner; refusing to cooperate is the felony and carries the harsher sentence. You seem to want to obfuscate that simple argument with reasons why Brady decided not cooperate in the first place. You also seem to equate cooperation with admitting wrong doing. The reasons he chose not to cooperate are a separate issue. All that matters is that he didn't and the league punished him accordingly. Patriot* nation and their media defenders seek to make it all about the picayune issue of deflated footballs because the more they can minimize the offense, the easier it is to accept. GO BILLS!!!
OCinBuffalo Posted June 11, 2015 Posted June 11, 2015 Patriot* nation and their media defenders seek to make it all about the picayune issue of deflated footballs because the more they can minimize the offense, the easier it is to accept. There's a word for this: BenSmithing. Detailed definition: Instead of reviewing or telling the whole story, you focus on a picayune issue, and get as many others to focus on it as well. You spend tons of time on that aspect. Then, you create a "report" that includes your exhaustive investigation of the picayune issue, and pretend that == an exhaustive investigation of the entire story. You hand your report out to the largely lazy media, who would rather take your "exhaustive" report than do their own work. Then, when others bring up the other, glaring, infinitely more relevant issues and aspects, like the "refusing to cooperate" aspect? You, and now, also, the lazy media(and their parrots) who don't want to be exposed as such, say this whole thing is "old news", has already been exhaustively looked at, point to your report as "definitive", and therefore, there's nothing left to talk about. Example: "Look, this Brady thing is a phony scandal. This is distracting the NFL from doing more important work. How can a few deflated footballs really have helped him? Look at the score of the game. Was it the trainer who deflated the footballs on his own, or because Brady was telling him to do it, what difference at this point does it make?" Hmmm. Some of those words and phrases...you might have heard before, somewhere. Shocking, I know. That's because BenSmithing is a tactic that's been in place for quite some time now, and is merely being co-opted by the Patriot* fans and media.
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