RyanTalbotBills Posted May 25, 2015 Author Posted May 25, 2015 Harvin really clicked with Sanjay Lal and the Jets coaching staff last season so I think he'll be fine in that aspect. My biggest worry is that Harvin is always dinged up. If he can stay healthy, he's a nightmare for opposing teams in a variety of ways. As for how many WRs the team carries, I'm leaning towards 6 or 7. Watkins, Harvin, Woods, Hogan, Easley (ST), Goodwin, (possibly) Dez Lewis. My cousin runs Draft Diamonds, a site devoted to small school prospects so I've been following Lewis for a while. He was a man among boys at Central Arkansas and he's a legitimate red zone threat.
NoSaint Posted May 25, 2015 Posted May 25, 2015 Hogan has very little special team value. He's a long shot to make this team, Goodwin has the inside track. In the darick vs hogan debate somehow hogan became an elite special teamer. Between all the special teams guys and extra kicker on the roster, let's go with the better position player.
Nanker Posted May 25, 2015 Posted May 25, 2015 Including Hogans ST value? Hogan has very little special team value. He's a long shot to make this team, Goodwin has the inside track. In the darick vs hogan debate somehow hogan became an elite special teamer. Between all the special teams guys and extra kicker on the roster, let's go with the better position player. I think The Bills added more ST playmaking ability this off season that would more than make up for cutting Hogan.
3rdand12 Posted May 25, 2015 Posted May 25, 2015 I think The Bills added more ST playmaking ability this off season that would more than make up for cutting Hogan. if it were to come to that, wouldn't both Goodwin or Hogan merit a trade opportunity?
Not at the table Karlos Posted May 25, 2015 Posted May 25, 2015 This move makes Goodwin expendable IMO. Idt he makes it past TC. Watkins Woods Harvin Easley Hogan I think they'll carry 5. With Roman's offense I wouldn't be surprised this happened to make room for another FB or TE. hogan and his 1 yard short on 3rd down routes need to go. He made one jumping catch that everyone thinks was amazing and now he's good. He sucks. Cut him
EmotionallyUnstable Posted May 25, 2015 Posted May 25, 2015 hogan and his 1 yard short on 3rd down routes need to go. He made one jumping catch that everyone thinks was amazing and now he's good. He sucks. Cut him That wasn't my arguement. But Goodwin doesn't offer that much more, or at least hasn't shown it. Dez Lewis could make this roster if Goodwin and hogan don't.
Deranged Rhino Posted May 25, 2015 Posted May 25, 2015 That wasn't my arguement. But Goodwin doesn't offer that much more, or at least hasn't shown it. Dez Lewis could make this roster if Goodwin and hogan don't. Goodwin offers much more than Hogan if he's healthy. There's no question about that. His speed alone changes how defenses account for him. Defenses do not have to account for Hogan, they'd prefer him catching the ball. And Goodwin, when healthy, has shown it (in my eyes).
Dibs Posted May 25, 2015 Posted May 25, 2015 As the conversation has understandably moved to Goodwin/Hogan speculation....and considering the thread topic....I think the fact that Harvin will most likely only see one season with the Bills could perhaps influence how we look at how both Goodwin and Hogan might fit with the team in future seasons, not just this season playing behind Harvin.
EmotionallyUnstable Posted May 25, 2015 Posted May 25, 2015 Goodwin offers much more than Hogan if he's healthy. There's no question about that. His speed alone changes how defenses account for him. Defenses do not have to account for Hogan, they'd prefer him catching the ball. And Goodwin, when healthy, has shown it (in my eyes). He reminds me so much of Roscoe Parrish. By doesn't having Harvin make him expendable? The return value is no longer there. The speed factor is nice, but over rated IMO. I think it will be interesting to see How Dez Lewis fits in here. He is the one piece (size) they don't have in their WR corps. As the conversation has understandably moved to Goodwin/Hogan speculation....and considering the thread topic....I think the fact that Harvin will most likely only see one season with the Bills could perhaps influence how we look at how both Goodwin and Hogan might fit with the team in future seasons, not just this season playing behind Harvin. Fair point. But I could imagine Harvin being offered good money mid season if successful
Dibs Posted May 25, 2015 Posted May 25, 2015 He reminds me so much of Roscoe Parrish. By doesn't having Harvin make him expendable? The return value is no longer there. The speed factor is nice, but over rated IMO. I think it will be interesting to see How Dez Lewis fits in here. He is the one piece (size) they don't have in their WR corps. Fair point. But I could imagine Harvin being offered good money mid season if successful If we do it undoubtedly means the inability to sign at least one of our other expected future signings.
Deranged Rhino Posted May 25, 2015 Posted May 25, 2015 He reminds me so much of Roscoe Parrish. By doesn't having Harvin make him expendable? The return value is no longer there. The speed factor is nice, but over rated IMO. I think it will be interesting to see How Dez Lewis fits in here. He is the one piece (size) they don't have in their WR corps. To me he does so much more than Roscoe ever did. Roscoe was a brilliant punt returner, but did little at the WR spot. Goodwin is bigger than Roscoe (an inch taller but built bigger), he's far more polished in his route running and blocking than Parish was, and he's much, much faster. Plus, he's shown pretty reliable hands. His speed can't be overlooked, it changes how defenses have to scheme against Watkins, Harvin, Clay and Woods. No other WR in the room (outside of our top three) commands that kind of attention from the defense -- and that's without much of a resume to his credit. I do think there's a place for Lewis, he fills a need. But he's going to need a great camp to make the 53. I think he ends up on the PS, but you never know. He could be a gem.
EmotionallyUnstable Posted May 25, 2015 Posted May 25, 2015 To me he does so much more than Roscoe ever did. Roscoe was a brilliant punt returner, but did little at the WR spot. Goodwin is bigger than Roscoe (an inch taller but built bigger), he's far more polished in his route running and blocking than Parish was, and he's much, much faster. Plus, he's shown pretty reliable hands. His speed can't be overlooked, it changes how defenses have to scheme against Watkins, Harvin, Clay and Woods. No other WR in the room (outside of our top three) commands that kind of attention from the defense -- and that's without much of a resume to his credit. I do think there's a place for Lewis, he fills a need. But he's going to need a great camp to make the 53. I think he ends up on the PS, but you never know. He could be a gem. Very insightful. If Lewis is ZpS material, how do you see the roster shaking out at WR?
SJDK Posted May 25, 2015 Posted May 25, 2015 Bills were fortunate to get Harvin. Just having him on the field will open things up for the other skilled position players.Yup, the threat of Percy could benefit the offense more than the actual Percy
Dragonborn10 Posted May 25, 2015 Posted May 25, 2015 This move makes Goodwin expendable IMO. Idt he makes it past TC. Watkins Woods Harvin Easley Hogan I think they'll carry 5. With Roman's offense I wouldn't be surprised this happened to make room for another FB or TE. I don't think Easley or Hogan make the team. Goodwin is a perfect slot companion to Harvin. They could both be on the field at the same time and create terrible match up problems with Watkins/Woods outside - especially if they line up Harvin in the backfield. Easley only makes the team if they carry six. He has no value as a WR. I would be just as happy if Dezmin Lewis makes the team and gets a few plays a game. I think they will carry an extra LB and Safety to play ST's instead of keeping Easley as a 6th WR.
Dibs Posted May 25, 2015 Posted May 25, 2015 I don't think Easley or Hogan make the team. Goodwin is a perfect slot companion to Harvin. They could both be on the field at the same time and create terrible match up problems with Watkins/Woods outside - especially if they line up Harvin in the backfield. Easley only makes the team if they carry six. He has no value as a WR. I would be just as happy if Dezmin Lewis makes the team and gets a few plays a game. I think they will carry an extra LB and Safety to play ST's instead of keeping Easley as a 6th WR. We just re-signed Easley to a 4 year deal. I think you underestimate how important he is perceived for ST. We have a bigger cap hit if we cut him than keep him.
Deranged Rhino Posted May 26, 2015 Posted May 26, 2015 Very insightful. If Lewis is ZpS material, how do you see the roster shaking out at WR? My way too early thoughts are they keep 5. I think four are already locks: Watkins, Harvin, Woods, and Easely. I think the fifth spot is up for grabs between Goodwin, Hogan and Lewis (in that order). If Lewis plays even with Hogan and Goodwin they might keep 6 (because in that scenario it'd be unlikely Lewis would clear waivers and make it to the PS). A lot depends too on how many TEs and FBs they end up keeping. I don't think Easley or Hogan make the team. Goodwin is a perfect slot companion to Harvin. They could both be on the field at the same time and create terrible match up problems with Watkins/Woods outside - especially if they line up Harvin in the backfield. Easley only makes the team if they carry six. He has no value as a WR. I would be just as happy if Dezmin Lewis makes the team and gets a few plays a game. I think they will carry an extra LB and Safety to play ST's instead of keeping Easley as a 6th WR. Easely won't be cut. The dead money in his new deal makes that highly unlikely. He's not only going to be on the team, he'll be active on game days.
eball Posted May 26, 2015 Posted May 26, 2015 I don't think Easley or Hogan make the team. Goodwin is a perfect slot companion to Harvin. They could both be on the field at the same time and create terrible match up problems with Watkins/Woods outside - especially if they line up Harvin in the backfield. Easley only makes the team if they carry six. He has no value as a WR. I would be just as happy if Dezmin Lewis makes the team and gets a few plays a game. I think they will carry an extra LB and Safety to play ST's instead of keeping Easley as a 6th WR. Easley was just re-signed because he is one of the best ST gunners in the league. He makes the team without question.
Hapless Bills Fan Posted May 26, 2015 Posted May 26, 2015 Including Hogans ST value? What is Hogan's ST value? Genuine Q...he didn't stand out to me. Easley as we know is a mad bad gunner. I thought Goodwin could return on ST?
Not at the table Karlos Posted May 26, 2015 Posted May 26, 2015 What is Hogan's ST value? Genuine Q...he didn't stand out to me. Easley as we know is a mad bad gunner. I thought Goodwin could return on ST? I don't recall hogan making any special teams plays.
Hapless Bills Fan Posted May 26, 2015 Posted May 26, 2015 As the conversation has understandably moved to Goodwin/Hogan speculation....and considering the thread topic....I think the fact that Harvin will most likely only see one season with the Bills could perhaps influence how we look at how both Goodwin and Hogan might fit with the team in future seasons, not just this season playing behind Harvin. Per OTC Harvin's contract extends for 3 years, but the final 2 years are "voidable". What does "voidable" mean in this context? Voidable by Harvin? By the Bills? By both sides? If a contract is voidable by both sides, what's the point? http://overthecap.com/player/percy-harvin/1554
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