Chris Williams also not attending workouts at OBD

[Doc]

Looks like he might be giving up his $100k work out bonus by not being here. Wonder when that roster bonus is due?

Usually the first day of the season.

[DrDawkinstein]

"Chris Williams" is the answer to the question of "Why havent the Bills signed a guy like Justin Blalock yet?" that we were asking through all of March. Those mid-range, depth vets picked up in FA rarely work out. But Whaley had to do something last year and Williams was our best chance at adding a serviceable player without breaking the bank. Unfortunately, he wasnt that serviceable, but fortunately we can cut him without much pain. Time to move on.

[GG]

Looks like he might be giving up his $100k work out bonus by not being here. Wonder when that roster bonus is due?

 

I doubt that teams can tie a workout bonus to voluntary organized activities.

[Hapless Bills Fan]

It's simply not true that he was a good guard. The Bears cut him mid season on a cheap deal. He then cleared waivers before the Rams gave him a deal for about 6 weeks (not exact number, partial season) then he shopped himself til April before returning tail tucked for a 1 year deal where he graded out as one of the worst in the league.

 

Could he be a good swing? Sure. I could see him in the top 96 guards but to say he hasn't been a bust seems at best stretching the truth for him.

 

You know, this always interests me. I say "he was servicable as a G for the Bears" and "he played decently at G for the Rams who wanted him back".

You change the word to "good" and argue that it's simply not true.

 

What's simply not true is that I used the word "good". I didn't. I use words precisely. So you are arguing against a position I didn't take. Similar with "bust". To me "bust" means a guy who just can't play at the NFL level, period. Aaron Maybin would be an example. What does the word "bust" mean to you? Contextually, something different? Guy must not only play in the NFL, but excel or something? Likewise, are "good" and "servicable" or "decent" synonyms to you? They aren't, to me.

 

The Bears cut him mid-season after deciding to move him back to LT, where he had originally not worked out. He signed with the Rams to play G 6 days later after visiting 4 teams. This was in mid-October, Week 7 of a 17 game season.

 

I would welcome that link which grades Williams as the worst G in 2010, 2011, 2012 (with Rams), and 2013. In general, line play is a very interdependent position and IMHO grades on individual linemen need to be viewed with some skepticism. The Rams had an overall mid-tier line with Williams in it. Did he shop himself before re-upping with the Rams in 2013, yes, yes he did. He would have liked a gig as an LT, paid as an LT, you see. No one being interested in him as an LT, oh well. I could be wrong, but I don't think even the Rams offered Williams 2.75M as a LG in 2013 because they thought he was the worst player in the league at that position and typically "players who come crawling back with their tail between their legs" aren't offered that kind of money. Fisher was quoted as saying he was "solid" and they wanted him back for 2014

 

Anyway, I suppose this is too much verbiage on a small point, I just don't like it when someone twists my words. I say Williams was not a bust - he can play guard servicably in the NFL, when cut he attracted significant interest from 4 teams, and the Rams wanted him back, the Bills outbid them.

 

Wiki says Williams was signed to a $5.5M guaranteed money contract with the Bills. Overthecap says $3.5M guaranteed, which is essentially his signing bonus, and that the Bills could save $2.5M by cutting him "post June 1". Based on this, I don't believe we would owe him any salary this upcoming season.

 

This is Williams' 2nd back injury - his 1st was as a rookie - and for a guy who has missed significant time in 3 of 7 seasons due to injuries, not looking good.

 

It is a puzzle to me why we signed him for the $$ we did, except that he fit the "big hulking behemoth guard" model that Marrone appears to have favored at 6'6", 326 lbs and not many guys do who have actually shown they can play even serviceably at guard. It's also a puzzle to me why, if we weren't expecting him back, we didn't do more to improve at the G position, but that's been a bugaboo of mine since FA.

 

I think if the Bills thought he was a total bust, he would be cut already and designated "post June 1"; If I'm not mistaken, we are allowed 2 such and have not yet used either.

 

It is true that Williams did not live up to his 1st round billing as a LT coming out of college, but that's not the appropriate metric for the Bills to use. Our question is whether he's healthy, and if healthy, if he represents an upgrade, for us, at guard.

[Best Player Available]

Chris Williams Contract: http://www.spotrac.com/nfl/buffalo-bills/chris-williams/

That guaranteed money conflicts what the Bills themselves, the snooze and others reported. Don't have the time or interest to dig around for a link. But, maybe these guys are right? Bottom line this guy was eating Doritos and possibly would have been out of the league, when Whaley bid against himself to secure his services. is this in the Dockery range stupid? No. but I have to say I have concerns over Whaley and his team's ability to build a line and draft a QB. How many drafts and FA's does he need before he hits on just one? Incognito my be good or since he hasn't played in quite awhile could bust too. So many here just assume he is some friggin stud because he made the pro bowl. IMO he is a one year stop gap on this never ending search for guards that can play.

 

it will be interesting once the pads are on in camp what kind of fights he will get into. dareus for one could be licking his chops to send a message to him I would think. based on his comments when he was a fish.

 

Back to C. Williams. payout his injury settlement if that is the reason he is still on the roster. i cannot think of any other reason he should be employed. he flat out sucks. did Whaley even watch tape on this guy? maybe he thought since he hit on the Hughes gamble bigtime that Williams would be the same? he was cut mid season that says something for a first rounder.

 

IMO

[Hapless Bills Fan]

 

I doubt that teams can tie a workout bonus to voluntary organized activities.

 

Why yes. Yes, they can, and they do http://overthecap.com/workout-bonuses/

[bourbonboy]

I actually love that Williams is skipping OTAs - it gives Miller more reps and time to gel with the OL, and makes it all that much easier to cut Williams and save some $$ when the time is right. Those $$ will come in handy elsewhere (Dareus extension?)

[GG]

 

Why yes. Yes, they can, and they do http://overthecap.com/workout-bonuses/

 

I guess it's splitting the lines between the offseason workouts in the facility and OTAs.

[Hapless Bills Fan]

That guaranteed money conflicts what the Bills themselves, the snooze and others reported. Don't have the time or interest to dig around for a link. But, maybe these guys are right? Bottom line this guy was eating Doritos and possibly would have been out of the league, when Whaley bid against himself to secure his services.

 

Do you have a link justifying the "eating doritos and out of the league" comment?

http://espn.go.com/blog/st-louis-rams/post/_/id/6304/is-chris-williams-in-rams-2014-plans

http://www.stltoday.com/sports/football/professional/rams-report/another-guard-checks-out-at-rams-park/article_886b2f83-aa40-5250-b3f2-cbd6ff6aaffa.html

 

The scuttlebut in StL was that the Rams wanted him back, but not at anything close to the contract Buffalo offered - their idea was closer to rinse and repeat of his 2013 money, which was higher salary but nothing guaranteed. He is also said to have drawn interest from at least 3 other teams.

 

 

Back to C. Williams. payout his injury settlement if that is the reason he is still on the roster. i cannot think of any other reason he should be employed. he flat out sucks. did Whaley even watch tape on this guy? maybe he thought since he hit on the Hughes gamble bigtime that Williams would be the same? he was cut mid season that says something for a first rounder.

 

 

An "injury settlement" is a term which applies when a player is on injured reserve during the season in which he is injured. Since Williams was injured and IR'd in 2014, and it's now the 2015 season, an injury settlement doesn't apply. I can't find the Buffalo Snooze reporting, but the $5.5M guaranteed might have meant his salary last year was guaranteed? Outside of amortized signing bonus I don't believe the Bills owe him anything. OTC and Spotrac are usually pretty accurate.

I actually love that Williams is skipping OTAs - it gives Miller more reps and time to gel with the OL, and makes it all that much easier to cut Williams and save some $$ when the time is right. Those $$ will come in handy elsewhere (Dareus extension?)

 

That is the risk when a vet skips OTAs. The potential benefit is more time to follow one's individual workout plan/less wear-and-tear on the body and less chance of injury.

The risk is that it's "open season" on the vet's job and someone else can always step up and win it.

Edited May 27, 2015 by Hopeful

[eball]

 

Do you have a link justifying the "eating doritos and out of the league" comment?

http://espn.go.com/blog/st-louis-rams/post/_/id/6304/is-chris-williams-in-rams-2014-plans

http://www.stltoday.com/sports/football/professional/rams-report/another-guard-checks-out-at-rams-park/article_886b2f83-aa40-5250-b3f2-cbd6ff6aaffa.html

 

The scuttlebut in StL was that the Rams wanted him back, but not at anything close to the contract Buffalo offered - their idea was closer to rinse and repeat of his 2013 money, which was higher salary but nothing guaranteed. He is also said to have drawn interest from at least 3 other teams.

 

 

 

An "injury settlement" is a term which applies when a player is on injured reserve during the season in which he is injured. Since Williams was injured and IR'd in 2014, and it's now the 2015 season, an injury settlement doesn't apply. I can't find the Buffalo Snooze reporting, but the $5.5M guaranteed might have meant his salary last year was guaranteed? Outside of amortized signing bonus I don't believe the Bills owe him anything. OTC and Spotrac are usually pretty accurate.

 

That is the risk when a vet skips OTAs. The potential benefit is more time to follow one's individual workout plan/less wear-and-tear on the body and less chance of injury.

The risk is that it's "open season" on the vet's job and someone else can always step up and win it.

 

Good responses, Hopeful. Facts and logical conclusions trump knee-jerk opinions every time.

[Best Player Available]

Good responses, Hopeful. Facts and logical conclusions trump knee-jerk opinions every time.

Aw, still got hurt feelings?

 

fact is he was not heavily recruited. When FA opened. and the three teams " interested" who are they? and what was their offer? There wasn't one unless you can provide a link.

probably league minimum like the Rams were going to offer. he was not signed day one by anyone in FA. Whaley overplayed his hand and that contract was out of line of his recent performance and ranking as a guard.

[NoSaint]

 

You know, this always interests me. I say "he was servicable as a G for the Bears" and "he played decently at G for the Rams who wanted him back".

You change the word to "good" and argue that it's simply not true.

 

i was clicking off a short rebuttal via phone while i had a minute. so i wasnt scrolling back and forth between your post and mine matching up exact words.

 

i wouldnt read too much into the word change as it doesnt change my point in the slightest.

 

the question for you is, if he were a "serviceable" guard for the bears, why was he a healthy scratch his final season with them, and why were they cutting him mid season? despite being characterized as being in dire need of talent on the line at the time. and why didnt anyone claim him on waivers?

Outside of amortized signing bonus I don't believe the Bills owe him anything. OTC and Spotrac are usually pretty accurate.

 

if you look at spotracs dead money, its more than just his amortized bonus. in fact, its 500k higher which matches his roster bonus thats listed. seems that may be already paid (if taking a shot in the dark)? Edited May 27, 2015 by NoSaint

[Best Player Available]

Do you have a link justifying the "eating doritos and out of the league" comment?

http://espn.go.com/blog/st-louis-rams/post/_/id/6304/is-chris-williams-in-rams-2014-plans

http://www.stltoday.com/sports/football/professional/rams-report/another-guard-checks-out-at-rams-park/article_886b2f83-aa40-5250-b3f2-cbd6ff6aaffa.html

 

The scuttlebut in StL was that the Rams wanted him back, but not at anything close to the contract Buffalo offered - their idea was closer to rinse and repeat of his 2013 money, which was higher salary but nothing guaranteed. He is also said to have drawn interest from at least 3 other teams.

 

 

 

 

An "injury settlement" is a term which applies when a player is on injured reserve during the season in which he is injured. Since Williams was injured and IR'd in 2014, and it's now the 2015 season, an injury settlement doesn't apply. I can't find the Buffalo Snooze reporting, but the $5.5M guaranteed might have meant his salary last year was guaranteed? Outside of amortized signing bonus I don't believe the Bills owe him anything. OTC and Spotrac are usually pretty accurate.

 

 

That is the risk when a vet skips OTAs. The potential benefit is more time to follow one's individual workout plan/less wear-and-tear on the body and less chance of injury.

The risk is that it's "open season" on the vet's job and someone else can always step up and win it.

all i got on the link with the fisher one sentence comment was our line sucks but if he's cheap we would bring him Back. no mention he would be a priorty. And for good reason. His team ranking or league for that matter was not all that positive . No? IMO it was the opposite.

[26CornerBlitz]

all i got on the link with the fisher one sentence comment was our line sucks but if he's cheap we would bring him Back. no mention he would be a priorty. And for good reason. His team ranking or league for that matter was not all that positive . No? IMO it was the opposite.

Is this similar to the Bills having serious competition for Doug Marrone?

Edited May 27, 2015 by 26CornerBlitz

[NoSaint]

In general, line play is a very interdependent position and IMHO grades on individual linemen need to be viewed with some skepticism. The Rams had an overall mid-tier line with Williams in it. Did he shop himself before re-upping with the Rams in 2013, yes, yes he did. He would have liked a gig as an LT, paid as an LT, you see. No one being interested in him as an LT, oh well. I could be wrong, but I don't think even the Rams offered Williams 2.75M as a LG in 2013 because they thought he was the worst player in the league at that position and typically "players who come crawling back with their tail between their legs" aren't offered that kind of money. Fisher was quoted as saying he was "solid" and they wanted him back for 2014

im sorry but a 1 year 2.75m contract for a guy is tail between the legs money after shopping yourself for a month. And according to spotrac 2013 was actually a 1 year 1.376m deal. The higher of the two numbers would put him at about 20th in the league at LG pay (just glancing at the average salaries for guards currently - which is slightly off for the 2 year gap between 2013 and today, but the ranking also ignores cheap rookie deals slotting in behind him when getting a feel for how he is viewed by GMs). The 1.376 number puts him at 28th in that same napkin glance at pay for LEFT guards.

 

accepting a 1 year deal that pays you in the bottom third of starters at your position after shopping yourself isnt exactly an endorsement of his play.

Edited May 27, 2015 by NoSaint

[Best Player Available]

Is the similar to the Bills having serious competition for Doug Marrone?

I think The Browns were interested. past that IDK? When St. maroon was hired. i rememebr the words" a young innovative mind" describing him. And a way better hire than say Chip Kelly.(Kelly has won nothing and a favorite dart board target here) Anyone with any opinion less than positive on Marrone was immediately tarred and feathered, and had their fanhood called into question. one of those homers is posting in this thread.

Now? marrone is across the board possibly the most hated ex coach in recent history. scorned By the same homers who loved the hire.

 

C. Williams is not a servicable guard. But I guess the word "servicable" can be interpreted in different ways. but, his ranking show that he is a big body with talent that simply did bot translate to the NFL. Ever. IMO

 

Like Saint said he never got a call after getting cut mid season and clearing waivers. serviceable players typically do not end up on a couch before signing a league minimum deal the next season.

Edited May 27, 2015 by Best Player Available

[Hapless Bills Fan]

Aw, still got hurt feelings?

 

fact is he was not heavily recruited. When FA opened. and the three teams " interested" who are they? and what was their offer? There wasn't one unless you can provide a link.

probably league minimum like the Rams were going to offer. he was not signed day one by anyone in FA. Whaley overplayed his hand and that contract was out of line of his recent performance and ranking as a guard.

 

Well, while we're at it, how about YOUR link that the Rams were going to offer him "league minimum"?

 

Can't provide one? That's because there was no reporting to that effect. But I'll take the "ranking as a guard" link, thanks.

 

"He was not signed Day one by anyone in FA" is a total straw man - it really has no bearing on whether there were other teams interested and who they were, and for mid-tier FA (which is what a guy pulling a $1.4-$1.8M salary is) there is not a lot of reporting, so lack of reporting in no way proves lack of interest. Nor does lack of offers prove lack of interest. This is Free Agency 101.

 

i was clicking off a short rebuttal via phone while i had a minute. so i wasnt scrolling back and forth between your post and mine matching up exact words.

 

i wouldnt read too much into the word change as it doesnt change my point in the slightest.

 

the question for you is, if he were a "serviceable" guard for the bears, why was he a healthy scratch his final season with them, and why were they cutting him mid season? despite being characterized as being in dire need of talent on the line at the time. and why didnt anyone claim him on waivers?

if you look at spotracs dead money, its more than just his amortized bonus. in fact, its 500k higher which matches his roster bonus thats listed. seems that may be already paid (if taking a shot in the dark)?

 

Thanks for the explanation, Saint. Glad to know it wasn't deliberate.

 

The short answer is I'm not a Bears fan and don't watch their games enough to know what was up with the "healthy scratch" thing. I do know that the Bears thought they upgraded at LG in FA, so they thought they were deep there and in 2012 were going to give Williams a shot at T, where he (surprise!) was outplayed in preseason by Webb, just like his previous shots at T. It was reported at the time in the Chicago and St Louis press that Williams was visiting/talking to several teams and the Rams offered him the most $$. Since he was on a cheap $1M contract in Chicago when cut, the fact that the Rams offered him $2.75M for 2013 argues they were happy with his play at LG for the final 8-10 games of 2012. I could be wrong, but I think the "dire need of talent" thing came after Carimi washed out at RT and the guy they signed to be the starting LG (Rachal?) walked out on the team in November.

 

Typically, the roster bonus is paid if a guy is on the roster opening day, but that can change with a specific contract - Fitz had a contract guaranteeing him a ridiculous roster bonus if he were on the roster after FA opened (why he was cut when he was), so it's entirely possible you're right and Williams has already been paid his $500k roster bonus for this year. Good catch.

[Best Player Available]

Well, while we're at it, how about YOUR link that the Rams were going to offer him "league minimum"?

 

Can't provide one? That's because there was no reporting to that effect. But I'll take the "ranking as a guard" link, thanks.

 

"He was not signed Day one by anyone in FA" is a total straw man - it really has no bearing on whether there were other teams interested and who they were, and for mid-tier FA (which is what a guy pulling a $1.4-$1.8M salary is) there is not a lot of reporting, so lack of reporting in no way proves lack of interest. Nor does lack of offers prove lack of interest. This is Free Agency 101.

 

 

 

Thanks for the explanation, Saint. Glad to know it wasn't deliberate.

 

The short answer is I'm not a Bears fan and don't watch their games enough to know what was up with the "healthy scratch" thing. I do know that the Bears thought they upgraded at LG in FA, so they thought they were deep there and in 2012 were going to give Williams a shot at T, where he (surprise!) was outplayed in preseason by Webb, just like his previous shots at T. It was reported at the time in the Chicago and St Louis press that Williams was visiting/talking to several teams and the Rams offered him the most $$. Since he was on a cheap $1M contract in Chicago when cut, the fact that the Rams offered him $2.75M for 2013 argues they were happy with his play at LG for the final 8-10 games of 2012. I could be wrong, but I think the "dire need of talent" thing came after Carimi washed out at RT and the guy they signed to be the starting LG (Rachal?) walked out on the team in November.

 

Typically, the roster bonus is paid if a guy is on the roster opening day, but that can change with a specific contract - Fitz had a contract guaranteeing him a ridiculous roster bonus if he were on the roster after FA opened (why he was cut when he was), so it's entirely possible you're right and Williams has already been paid his $500k roster bonus for this year. Good catch.

Did you read the first link you provided? Some of your questions can be answered right there. And yes although a member of the media made one of them. This board thrives on media BS. (Positive or negative). But in that link you can see where he ranked on the Rams that year. i am typing on glass but i know you know how to use google so in a search you can find where he ranked as a NFL guard in the league.

 

I guess you have a very high opinion of Williams. That's fine I do not. i wish him the best on his next team. But like the link you provided mentioned. the author did not envision him as a starter. No one does.

[Hapless Bills Fan]

im sorry but a 1 year 2.75m contract for a guy is tail between the legs money after shopping yourself for a month. And according to spotrac 2013 was actually a 1 year 1.376m deal. The higher of the two numbers would put him at about 20th in the league at LG pay (just glancing at the average salaries for guards currently - which is slightly inflated, but the ranking also ignores cheap rookie deals slotting in behind him when getting a feel for how he is viewed by GMs). The 1.376 number puts him at 28th in that same napkin glance at pay for LEFT guards.

 

accepting a 1 year deal that pays you in the bottom third of starters at your position after shopping yourself isnt exactly an endorsement of his play.

 

I think we're back to words meaning different things to us ("bust" "tail between the legs" etc), which is fine.

 

I didn't realize Spotrac gave previous contracts, so thanks for the gouge there. I dunno about the discrepency - maybe the diff was an incentivized contract for milestones that he met? He did start every game for them in 2013. Neither Spotrac nor Overthecap seem to report on contract incentives. I expect they're harder to get the gouge on. I personally think it's weak to look at 2015 salaries and use them to rank a 2013 salary, but whatevs - IMO if a guy sucks and is a bust, he would be outta the league not getting paid 20th in the league using 2015 salaries to rank a 2013 contract, we've already settled some words mean different things to you.

 

I'm kinda done here. My interest in CW isn't strong enough to keep going. It's all good.

[mattsox]

Honestly, I don't understand why he is still on the roster? Maybe hashing out an injury settlement?

 

Joe D. At his age could play better.

It looks like we may lose a Williams.... I think John Miller owns it unless he looks totally flat in Pre-season...

Edited May 27, 2015 by mattsox