DrDawkinstein Posted May 14, 2015 Posted May 14, 2015 If you are down though are you better off nickel and diming 8 yards with Hogan or trying to hit Goodwin over the top? I do not think that "chain mover" is a fair description either. The issue is that the possession type of guys ahead of him on the depth chart are McCoy (possibly Fred), Clay, Watkins, Woods and Harvin. All of those guys will be tasked with catching short and intermediate routes, in addition to bubble screens (God willing). The goal will be yards after catch. I said earlier if 1 of those 1st 3 receivers gets injured in camp than Hogan has to jump the rest of them because he is the most consistent. If it is 10 snaps a game he has little to no value. That is the exact question and what has been discussed for 6 pages. Do you want the guy that does everything okay (Hogan) or a guy that has a unique skill (Goodwin or Lewis)? That depends on Whaley and the staff. I think this is the biggest point that most Hogan fans are missing. He is an underneath possession receiver. We now have at least 5 guys that are waaaaaaaay better in that role than he is. If it's 3rd and 8 and all the Defense is giving us are dump-offs, I'd rather see that ball go to any of the other players than Hogan. And I dont mean to sound harsh on Hogan, he's a good player, but we have better at that role now. Sure, one could argue that both Harvin and Watkins are deep threats, therefore negating Goodwin. However, I'd much rather have Goodwin taking the top off so we can get the ball to Watkins, than Watkins taking the top off so we can get the ball to Hogan. We've already seen how that plays out, and the front office worked their butts off this offseason to improve it.
NoSaint Posted May 14, 2015 Posted May 14, 2015 I think this is the biggest point that most Hogan fans are missing. He is an underneath possession receiver. We now have at least 5 guys that are waaaaaaaay better in that role than he is. If it's 3rd and 8 and all the Defense is giving us are dump-offs, I'd rather see that ball go to any of the other players than Hogan. And I dont mean to sound harsh on Hogan, he's a good player, but we have better at that role now. Sure, one could argue that both Harvin and Watkins are deep threats, therefore negating Goodwin. However, I'd much rather have Goodwin taking the top off so we can get the ball to Watkins, than Watkins taking the top off so we can get the ball to Hogan. We've already seen how that plays out, and the front office worked their butts off this offseason to improve it. Very well said
papazoid Posted May 14, 2015 Posted May 14, 2015 WR's - keep 6 or 7 ? Locks: watkins, woods, harvin & easley(special team gunner) Bubble: hogan, goodwin, lewis Cut: thompson, thigpen, palmer, holley, davis, brown
YoloinOhio Posted May 14, 2015 Posted May 14, 2015 I think this is the biggest point that most Hogan fans are missing. He is an underneath possession receiver. We now have at least 5 guys that are waaaaaaaay better in that role than he is. If it's 3rd and 8 and all the Defense is giving us are dump-offs, I'd rather see that ball go to any of the other players than Hogan. And I dont mean to sound harsh on Hogan, he's a good player, but we have better at that role now. Sure, one could argue that both Harvin and Watkins are deep threats, therefore negating Goodwin. However, I'd much rather have Goodwin taking the top off so we can get the ball to Watkins, than Watkins taking the top off so we can get the ball to Hogan. We've already seen how that plays out, and the front office worked their butts off this offseason to improve it. Hogan will wind up somewhere like Jax. Not just because Marrone is there, but one of their projected starters is Allen Hurns. They have a fairly weak/young WR group. Marquise Lee and Allen Robinson are nice young players but not sure either is a #1. I think they could use a slot guy like Hogan with the young QB.
4merper4mer Posted May 14, 2015 Posted May 14, 2015 Hogan will wind up somewhere like Jax. Not just because Marrone is there, but one of their projected starters is Allen Hurns. They have a fairly weak/young WR group. Marquise Lee and Allen Robinson are nice young players but not sure either is a #1. I think they could use a slot guy like Hogan with the young QB. Hurns >>>>>> Hogan. Who is their #4?
YoloinOhio Posted May 14, 2015 Posted May 14, 2015 Hurns >>>>>> Hogan. Who is their #4? I don't know. Cecil Shorts is gone. I think they will run some 2 TE sets with Lewis and Thomas.
Kelly the Dog Posted May 14, 2015 Posted May 14, 2015 I think the Bills keep 5 WR, Watkins, Woods, Harvin, Goodwin and Easley barring injury. Hogan gets cut although he will immediately get picked up. Lewis and Holley or Thompson are both on PS in case of injury. We are keeping too many RB, FB and TE to carry six WR. ST arent going to matter because Felton will play them, Connor is he stays instead of a TE, Karlos Williams will play them. Steward will from rookies. Our ST will be fine. Rex has already started talking up Easley as a WR, regardless of whether he is good enough or not. We don't have room or need for 6.
Dorkington Posted May 14, 2015 Posted May 14, 2015 I don't think Hogan is more talented than Goodwin, just to be clear. But I could see him making it over someone like Goodwin because he's more reliable, and we already have a boat load of weapons on the team. IMO, it's always good to have big play makers, but also good to have a couple reliable solid guys to fill in the gaps so to speak. Goodwin is high risk (due to injury problems) but high reward. I hope he can prove to stay healthy because he's got amazing physical talent, and from the little we've seen he can get open in more ways than running deep routes. But again, Hogan has proven to be reliable, and will do special teams grunt work. I could see it happening either way. And either way I support whomever and hope they kick ass for us.
Manther Posted May 14, 2015 Posted May 14, 2015 Most of the people who are down on Hogan won't admit it but their major problem with him is the fact that he was kept over the future hall of fame receiver D'rick Something or other. They vociforously (sp) complained when the decision was made to cut old what's his name and haven't stopped bradying about Hogan since then. I don't think that is the case with why people think Hogan is expendable. And, I believe those people who think Hogan is expendable have explained why and I agree and it makes sense. So, NO people never said that and that is just your opinion or starting trouble (aka disrupting the thread).
Storm Front Posted May 14, 2015 Posted May 14, 2015 Hogan has improved each year he has been in the NFL. He is likely to get better this year. One Catch Goodwin only gets worse. The dude may be fast but he is oft injured and can't catch very well.
Big C Posted May 14, 2015 Posted May 14, 2015 Hogan has improved each year he has been in the NFL. He is likely to get better this year. One Catch Goodwin only gets worse. The dude may be fast but he is oft injured and can't catch very well. How did you come to that conclusion? I don't think I've ever seen him drop a ball.
RI Bills Fan Posted May 14, 2015 Posted May 14, 2015 I don't think that is the case with why people think Hogan is expendable. And, I believe those people who think Hogan is expendable have explained why and I agree and it makes sense. So, NO people never said that and that is just your opinion or starting trouble (aka disrupting the thread). Given the fact that when the overall talent on this receiving corps is considered, I think Hogan may very well be expendible, I guess you may have missed my point. Hint: There are a few posters here who will never forgive Hogan for beating out their binkie, D'rick.
thebandit27 Posted May 14, 2015 Posted May 14, 2015 Given the fact that when the overall talent on this receiving corps is considered, I think Hogan may very well be expendible, I guess you may have missed my point. Hint: There are a few posters here who will never forgive Hogan for beating out their binkie, D'rick. Then go ahead and name names, because I haven't seen a single person that even comes close to representing that stance.
Kirby Jackson Posted May 14, 2015 Author Posted May 14, 2015 (edited) Given the fact that when the overall talent on this receiving corps is considered, I think Hogan may very well be expendible, I guess you may have missed my point. Hint: There are a few posters here who will never forgive Hogan for beating out their binkie, D'rick. The Da'Rick thread was apparently over your head because it is playing out as many have suggested. Da'Rick was going to flame out and be off the roster or develop into a really good player. Hogan was going to be a bottom of the depth chart, bubble type of guy. It isn't that we thought that Rogers was better than Hogan at that point. The whole point was that if he lived up to his potential he was going to help the team. If Hogan lived up to his potential he was going to be a bubble guy. That's pretty much exactly was has played out. The point made was if you could develop Da'Rick you had a player. If he caused a problem (as he did) you release him and sign a Caleb Holley type to fill that role. You were trading the delta between Hogan and Holley (or someone like that) for a chance to develop a 1st round talent. That was the whole conversation. FWIW, I still believe in that philosophy. It was never about the player. If you want to read up on it there are about 100 pages here discussing it. It really isn't relevant in this thread. Edited May 14, 2015 by Kirby Jackson
thebandit27 Posted May 14, 2015 Posted May 14, 2015 The Da'Rick thread was apparently over your head because it is playing out as many have suggested. Da'Rick was going to flame out and be off the roster or develop into a really good player. Hogan was going to be a bottom of the depth chart, bubble type of guy. It isn't that we thought that Rogers was better than Hogan at that point. The whole point was that if he lived up to his potential he was going to help the team. If Hogan lived up to his potential he was going to be a bubble guy. That's pretty much exactly was has played out. The point made was if you could develop Da'Rick you had a player. If he caused a problem (as he did) you release him and sign a Caleb Holley type to fill that role. You were trading the delta between Hogan and Holley (or someone like that) for a chance to develop a 1st round talent. That was the whole conversation. FWIW, I still believe in that philosophy. It was never about the player. If you want to read up on it there are about 100 pages here discussing it. It really isn't relevant in this thread. You know what's funny about the Da'Rick thread? Both sides were right (eventually). The side that said "you keep Da'Rick because he's got a much higher ceiling than Hogan" was 100% correct. He was a much more skilled player. The side that said "you keep Hogan instead because he can help on ST, is less likely to get in trouble off the field, and can be a fringe #3 WR in a good offensive attack" was 100% right. He's done that.
RI Bills Fan Posted May 14, 2015 Posted May 14, 2015 Then go ahead and name names, because I haven't seen a single person that even comes close to representing that stance. No I don't think I need to do that. This is a public board and I assume everyone who posts here is capable of reading the comments made and forming their own opinions. I probably should have stuck an "IMO" on the two posts that are getting people fired up. I'll appologize for that omission.
Kirby Jackson Posted May 14, 2015 Author Posted May 14, 2015 You know what's funny about the Da'Rick thread? Both sides were right (eventually). The side that said "you keep Da'Rick because he's got a much higher ceiling than Hogan" was 100% correct. He was a much more skilled player. The side that said "you keep Hogan instead because he can help on ST, is less likely to get in trouble off the field, and can be a fringe #3 WR in a good offensive attack" was 100% right. He's done that. Yep, that was why it was such an interesting debate for those people capable of viewing the situation without the specific players attached to it. It looks like we may have a similar situation this year.
RI Bills Fan Posted May 14, 2015 Posted May 14, 2015 You know what's funny about the Da'Rick thread? Both sides were right (eventually). The side that said "you keep Da'Rick because he's got a much higher ceiling than Hogan" was 100% correct. He was a much more skilled player. The side that said "you keep Hogan instead because he can help on ST, is less likely to get in trouble off the field, and can be a fringe #3 WR in a good offensive attack" was 100% right. He's done that. What happened to the group that were insistant that Hogan's career stats wouldn't match up to D'rick's stats from a single game?
Kirby Jackson Posted May 14, 2015 Author Posted May 14, 2015 What happened to the group that were insistant that Hogan's career stats wouldn't match up to D'rick's stats from a single game?Again, no need to be passive aggressive. If you have an issue with what I said you can address me on here or feel free to shoot me a PM.
thebandit27 Posted May 14, 2015 Posted May 14, 2015 What happened to the group that were insistant that Hogan's career stats wouldn't match up to D'rick's stats from a single game? Be back in a few...I'm looking for that post in the epic Da'Rick thread...
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