Bills vets on the bubble

[Kirby Jackson]

Yes and some are still bad mouthing Hogan because they were (the W word). They should go back to playing Madden Pro Scout.

 

I know you are obsessed with the imaginary disease but there is no such disease and was NOT the reason why you were not chosen to be the Bills' towel boy.

 

Or who could then trade the player to rival and gain a future pick.

If you are referring to me I have said that I was wrong on Hogan. He is an NFL player. I don't think that he is any good and will have a hard time making the team. He does however belong in the NFL. You don't need to speak in cryptic messages around here. If you want to say something, say it. No need for the passive aggressive jabs, we are all adults here. Edited May 14, 2015 by Kirby Jackson

[NoSaint]

If you are referring to me I have said that I was wrong on Hogan. He is an NFL player. I don't think that he is any good and will have a hard time making the team. He does however belong in the NFL. You don't need to speak in cryptic messages around here. If you want to say something, say it. No need for the passive aggressive jabs, we are all adults here.

I'll agree he has a spot in the league - but still don't love him on this roster. When we were trotting out ruvell Martin, and Roosevelt I was happy with the signing as he had a shot to be an nfl player, as you put it, and we didn't have those. Once you have a few of those in the position group though, use the roster spot to take a bigger shot than "if a lot of guys get hurt he probably won't embarrass us." There's still nothing rare about the guy still. He will be in the NFL a few years but once he accrues enough seasons to have his min salary go up he will struggle competing with younger, cheaper, options.

[3rdand12]

I thought the same thing. Would not surprise me if he gets cut this year.

Cut ?

If he were a depth S, LB or FB who never saw the field, would his special teams excellence be valued more?

 

Easley's the Mark Pike of this generation of Bills...

 

 

Imo

Toodles....

indeed!

[Formerly Allan in MD]

It would be criminally stupid to cut your 1st round pick QB after 14 starts, without any better options. And even stupider to cut one of the top two corners on your roster.

He may be one of the top two corners on the roster but that doesn't mean he's any good.

[Jamie Nails]

Sleeper: Lawson if Randell progresses and Mario and Hughes eat up stand-up snaps.

[Max997]

Boobie and Chris Williams are the first two names that jump out at me. I have a feeling McKelvin might be in trouble as well as the Bills have a lot of money tied up in the secondary. He is prob the third CB right now especially if Graham stays at CB which is what I prefer actually. Why move a guy who played that well at CB to safety?

 

I will be shocked if Bryce Brown is not on this team this season. He is a cheap insurance policy in case there are injuries and that's the kind of backup the Bills need.

Edited May 14, 2015 by Max997

[JM57]

Why move a guy who played that well at CB to safety?

 

Let's say they see McKelvin as a B+ corner, and Graham as an A corner but a B safety. On the other hand, they see Duke Williams as a C safety. Do you start an A corner and a C safety? Or do you take the slight downgrade at CB for an upgrade next to Aaron Williams, making the unit as a whole stronger?

 

This isn't necessarily my personal opinion on these players, I'm just laying it out there as an example.

Edited May 14, 2015 by JM57

[strive_for_five_guy]

I wish posters would stop making stuff up to fit their points of view;

1. Marrone did not trade for him, front office did.

2. Not a team has signed him; I have not even heard a report that he was even visited any teams.

Agreed. I don't get some people's fixation on the guy. I'd love to hear posters' theories on why Mikey hasn't been signed yet by anyone if he's still any good.

[Agent 91]

I hate to go all McCoy on you guys but I almost feel like there is some racial stereotyping going on with respect to Hogan. Just because he is a white receiver people act like he's some plodding, little engine that could, methodical player who is bereft of any sort of talent but, ya know, he's white so he's able to maximize the little skill that god gave him. The dude started playing football at like 20 and has absolutely blazing speed. Albeit not quite Goodwin's speed but I'm almost inclined to think that if he was black he'd be held in a higher regard around here based on the season he had last year. Did he drop a ball? He made that insane catch against Minnesota, I know that. Would be very surprised if he didn't make the roster. Goodwin is very much on the bubble. He gets hurt in the offseason, which is like a 50/50 proposition, he's done for. Plus Hogan has proven to be way more useful on special teams than Goodwin.

He won a game for Orton last year with his last minute performance. I honestly forget what game. But he had a huge leaping catch on the sidelines and then a TD.

 

I'll throw him a bone... and im black.

 

The only thing you said that i dont necessarily agree with is that Hogan has blazing speed.

[YoloinOhio]

He won a game for Orton last year with his last minute performance. I honestly forget what game. But he had a huge leaping catch on the sidelines and then a TD.

 

I'll throw him a bone... and im black.

 

The only thing you said that i dont necessarily agree with is that Hogan has blazing speed.

minnesota game and it was a fantastic catch. I don't think hogan does anything "special" consistently, but that was a special play.

[RI Bills Fan]

Most of the people who are down on Hogan won't admit it but their major problem with him is the fact that he was kept over the future hall of fame receiver D'rick Something or other.

 

They vociforously (sp) complained when the decision was made to cut old what's his name and haven't stopped bradying about Hogan since then.

[4merper4mer]

Most of the people who are down on Hogan won't admit it but their major problem with him is the fact that he was kept over the future hall of fame receiver D'rick Something or other.

 

They vociforously (sp) complained when the decision was made to cut old what's his name and haven't stopped bradying about Hogan since then.

Lol come on. Stop being a fanboy.

 

Hogan did a few good things. I agree the catch against Minny was a nice one and obviously important, but he did a few good things because he had a multitude of chances. Marrone would plan around throwing to Hogan in lieu of throwing to Sammy. That is messed up. He isn't that fast, doesn't run great routes, somehow has an ability to get open on the pus side but also drops too many. He is a far below average NFL receiver with no discernible outstanding feature. Harvin, Woods and Watkins are obviously the top three. Easley is probably on for special teams and Goodwin has one of the top high gears in all of the NFL. D'Rick or no D'Rick Hogan is in need of a miracle or multiple injuries to make the team.

Edited May 14, 2015 by 4merper4mer

[dave mcbride]

Lol come on. Stop being a fanboy.

 

Hogan did a few good things. I agree the catch against Minny was a nice one and obviously important, but he did a few good things because he had a multitude of chances. Marrone would plan around throwing to Hogan in lieu of throwing to Sammy. That is messed up. He isn't that fast, doesn't run great routes, somehow has an ability to get open on the pus side but also drops too many. He is a far below average NFL receiver with no discernible outstanding feature. Harvin, Woods and Watkins are obviously the top three. Easley is probably on for special teams and Goodwin has one of the top high gears in all of the NFL. D'Rick or no D'Rick Hogan is in need of a miracle or multiple injuries to make the team.

 

That's actually not particularly accurate. He racked up big numbers in games they lost, especially when they were down late (I went through the game logs). Teams were playing a variety of prevent defenses to take away the deeper threats and Hogan was an outlet. He mostly got the job done in that role (someone's gotta catch the ball and move the chains in desperate situations like those ones), and I think there's a place on a decent NFL team for players like him who can move the chains late and keep drives going in pass-heavy situations. He's not a bad player, and he also got better over the course of the season (which seems to be going unmentioned here) - he had 0 catches in the first 4 games. He's young too. Will he ever be a stud? No, but he's more likely to be a productive player in the league than the guy the Bills drafted in round 7. Not every player has to be elite, and you need guys who do little things well. Theey might have the ability to move chains and help string drives together by blocking well on 3rd down and catching out of the backfield (Jackson) or by regularly picking up 8-12 yard chunks against nickel and dime defenses by being able to run routes properly and catch the the ball consistently.

 

Someone posted above that the Bills were 31st in slot yardage and seemed to blame Hogan. Again, Hogan had no catches and no targets in the first four games. So blaming him for that seems wrong. That's one fourth of the season.

Edited May 14, 2015 by dave mcbride

[NoSaint]

Sleeper: Lawson if Randell progresses and Mario and Hughes eat up stand-up snaps.

i think lawsons a better fit this year than last. i also do not think the two of them play much/any real linebacker. ococassionally they may rush from an unexpected stance/position but i wouldnt expect either falling into coverage like lawson can. if we kept schwartz id have him pegged as a goner, but theres a reason pettine targeted him and i think rex will similarly like him for a role.

Edited May 14, 2015 by NoSaint

[Kirby Jackson]

That's actually not particularly accurate. He racked up big numbers in games they lost, especially when they were down late (I went through the game logs). Teams were playing a variety of prevent defenses to take away the deeper threats and Hogan was an outlet. He mostly got the job done in that role (someone's gotta catch the ball and move the chains in desperate situations like those ones), and I think there's a place on a decent NFL team for players like him who can move the chains late and keep drives going in pass-heavy situations. He's not a bad player, and he also got better over the course of the season (which seems to be going unmentioned here) - he had 0 catches in the first 4 games. He's young too. Will he ever be a stud? No, but he's more likely to be a productive player in the league than the guy the Bills drafted in round 7. Not every player has to be elite, and you need guys who do little things well. Theey might have the ability to move chains and help string drives together by blocking well on 3rd down and catching out of the backfield (Jackson) or by regularly picking up 8-12 yard chunks against nickel and dime defenses by being able to run routes properly and catch the the ball consistently.

 

Someone posted above that the Bills were 31st in slot yardage and seemed to blame Hogan. Again, Hogan had no catches and no targets in the first four games. So blaming him for that seems wrong. That's one fourth of the season.

They were 1-6 (or 1-7) when Hogan and Chandler combined for 7+ catches. The only win was Minnesota and the Bills were really bad that day. Teams are fine if you are getting the ball to Hogan and Chandler types because they are not threats. That is why the Bills went out of their way to upgrade from those guys. It was similar to when you had Donald Jones as your number 2. He put up okay numbers because of the chances that he was afforded but that certainly doesn't mean that he was a threat. I know that I sound like a broken record but if you were the defensive coordinator who would you rather prepare for Goodwin or Hogan?

[dave mcbride]

They were 1-6 (or 1-7) when Hogan and Chandler combined for 7+ catches. The only win was Minnesota and the Bills were really bad that day. Teams are fine if you are getting the ball to Hogan and Chandler types because they are not threats. That is why the Bills went out of their way to upgrade from those guys. It was similar to when you had Donald Jones as your number 2. He put up okay numbers because of the chances that he was afforded but that certainly doesn't mean that he was a threat. I know that I sound like a broken record but if you were the defensive coordinator who would you rather prepare for Goodwin or Hogan?

As I said above, if you're ever down and need steady players who give you a chance to get back in the game via a productive outlet passing game, players like Hogan are valuable. It is nice, you know, to come back and win on occasion - i.e., the Vikings game and the Detroit game. I'm operating under the assumption that not every player in a wr corps is going to be an A-level elite athlete. That's not a good way to build a team because those guys offer you nothing that watkins and harvin don't already give you. You need chain movers and receivers who end up in the places the qb expects them to be. In most games given that good teams still lose 35 percent of their games, I'd say hogan is more valuable than Goodwin. And I like goodwin. I prefer to look at it situationally rather than who i should be fearing before a game happens.

Edited May 14, 2015 by dave mcbride

[RI Bills Fan]

I'm not claiming to have any sort of inside knowledge but it makes sense to me that the optimum construction of a wide receiver corps would include (as much as practical) a variety of players who both complement each other and bring unique attributes to the field.

 

Consider Watkins, Harvin, Woods, and Easley as locks to make the team. The question then becomes which 1 (or 2) of Hogan, Goodwin, or the rookie, brings the most to the table to round out the skill set of the WR Corps as a whole.

 

I contend that the ranking as of today should be Hogan 1, Goodwin 2, and Rookie 3. After TC? Who Knows?

[Kirby Jackson]

As I said above, if you're ever down and need steady players who give you a chance to get back in the game via a productive outlet passing game, players like Hogan are valuable. It is nice, you know, to come back and win on occasion - i.e., the Vikings game and the Detroit game. I'm operating under the assumption that not every player in a wr corps is going to be an A-level elite athlete. That's not a good way to build a team because those guys offer you nothing that watkins and harvin don't already give you. You need chain movers and receivers who end up in the places the qb expects them to be. In most games given that good teams still lose 35 percent of their games, I'd say hogan is more valuable than Goodwin. And I like goodwin. I prefer to look at it situationally rather than who i should be fearing before a game happens.

If you are down though are you better off nickel and diming 8 yards with Hogan or trying to hit Goodwin over the top? I do not think that "chain mover" is a fair description either. The issue is that the possession type of guys ahead of him on the depth chart are McCoy (possibly Fred), Clay, Watkins, Woods and Harvin. All of those guys will be tasked with catching short and intermediate routes, in addition to bubble screens (God willing). The goal will be yards after catch.

 

I said earlier if 1 of those 1st 3 receivers gets injured in camp than Hogan has to jump the rest of them because he is the most consistent. If it is 10 snaps a game he has little to no value.

I'm not claiming to have any sort of inside knowledge but it makes sense to me that the optimum construction of a wide receiver corps would include (as much as practical) a variety of players who both complement each other and bring unique attributes to the field.

 

Consider Watkins, Harvin, Woods, and Easley as locks to make the team. The question then becomes which 1 (or 2) of Hogan, Goodwin, or the rookie, brings the most to the table to round out the skill set of the WR Corps as a whole.

 

I contend that the ranking as of today should be Hogan 1, Goodwin 2, and Rookie 3. After TC? Who Knows?

That is the exact question and what has been discussed for 6 pages. Do you want the guy that does everything okay (Hogan) or a guy that has a unique skill (Goodwin or Lewis)? That depends on Whaley and the staff.

[NoSaint]

If you are down though are you better off nickel and diming 8 yards with Hogan or trying to hit Goodwin over the top? I do not think that "chain mover" is a fair description either. The issue is that the possession type of guys ahead of him on the depth chart are McCoy (possibly Fred), Clay, Watkins, Woods and Harvin. All of those guys will be tasked with catching short and intermediate routes, in addition to bubble screens (God willing). The goal will be yards after catch.

 

I said earlier if 1 of those 1st 3 receivers gets injured in camp than Hogan has to jump the rest of them because he is the most consistent. If it is 10 snaps a game he has little to no value.

 

That is the exact question and what has been discussed for 6 pages. Do you want the guy that does everything okay (Hogan) or a guy that has a unique skill (Goodwin or Lewis)? That depends on Whaley and the staff.

i think you sell goodwin a little short on his ability to do other things well, if he can stay healthy.

[YoloinOhio]

I'm not claiming to have any sort of inside knowledge but it makes sense to me that the optimum construction of a wide receiver corps would include (as much as practical) a variety of players who both complement each other and bring unique attributes to the field.

 

Consider Watkins, Harvin, Woods, and Easley as locks to make the team. The question then becomes which 1 (or 2) of Hogan, Goodwin, or the rookie, brings the most to the table to round out the skill set of the WR Corps as a whole.

 

I contend that the ranking as of today should be Hogan 1, Goodwin 2, and Rookie 3. After TC? Who Knows?

If Lewis has a decent TC, I see him making it. If he doesn't show progress on route running and some of the technique stuff, I see him to the PS in favor of Hogan. I think they keep 6, with Goodwin. Keep in mind that Clay can also line up at WR and is 6'3 so we do have height if Lewis goes to PS. I would not rule out Whaley trading Hogan for a draft pick, either, if he can pull that off.

Edited May 14, 2015 by YoloinOhio