Kelly the Dog Posted May 12, 2015 Posted May 12, 2015 Even if it was to win. It could influence his decisions to fix games. He could hold out players/pitchers, save them for the next game to double down. Betting to win or lose for a manager is bad. Yep. It's bad. That's not really what he was doing from all I have read about it. But I agree even to win is bad. Very bad. Not nearly however as betting on your team to lose. Not even in the same ballpark. I have no problem with you disagreeing with me over this issue, at least you argue things you appear to strongly believe. I don't even have a problem if the debate gets heated, all good debates do and I don't take it personally. Thats the entire purpose of this forum. The issue is not the debate, the issue is when people start labeling people "Fan boys" or "Haters" (depending on what side of a debate you are on) because you don't share their opinion about a particular subject and they literally have nothing else to say or contribute to the topic. In all fairness, there are people on here who are or have been "Haters" or "Fanboys" about certain people or topics and will state just about any ridiculousness, name call, exaggerate, make stuff up, etc to irrational levels to further that agenda. But too often people get incorrectly labeled in those categories because they have a different opinion on a subject, are critical of a certain player, etc. For instance...just because someone didn't like Kyle Orton and thought he stunk did NOT make them a EJ fan boy, and vice versa...it meant, using your eyes you could see Orton sucks. But if you said Orton sucks, then people would jump all over you and just say you are an EJ Fan Boy trying to make Orton look bad to defend EJ. Which is an impossible way to carry on any rational discussion and its what causes so many unnecessarily long threads/arguments. Agree with all of that, too. I think most of the posters that attract these labels though, however false they may be, rarely are objective as you seem to be, and only take the other side the vast majority of the time. The people that argue both sides usually don't get those fanboy labels.
FireChan Posted May 12, 2015 Posted May 12, 2015 Yep. It's bad. That's not really what he was doing from all I have read about it. But I agree even to win is bad. Very bad. Not nearly however as betting on your team to lose. Not even in the same ballpark. Agree with all of that, too. I think most of the posters that attract these labels though, however false they may be, rarely are objective as you seem to be, and only take the other side the vast majority of the time. The people that argue both sides usually don't get those fanboy labels. Bingo. The rabid posters who make the same arguments over and over, make the same responses over and over, and respond with such emotion, you can picture them steaming over their keyboard, are the ones who usually attract labels.
dave mcbride Posted May 12, 2015 Posted May 12, 2015 I'll put it in Al Qaeda's terms: Some here choose to focus on the near enemy (the Patriots), while others prefer to keep the focus on the far enemy, regarding it as the greater evil. That would be the Dallas Cowboys, who admittedly have been sleepy of late. Roughly one year ago, the Cowboys owner publicly supported moving the team from Buffalo, and of course they thrashed the Bills twice in two SBs and crowed all the way home. I wouldn't be surprised if they cheated either -- Johnson certainly wasn't above that. To top it off, their hell-spawned coach went to Miami and after an agonizing Bills playoff loss stomped on a box of Flutie Flakes in a petulant display of revenge for losing to BC when he was the Hurricanes. They're both enemies, but some enemies are greater than others. In my opinion.
Kelly the Dog Posted May 12, 2015 Posted May 12, 2015 I'll put it in Al Qaeda's terms: Some here choose to focus on the near enemy (the Patriots), while others prefer to keep the focus on the far enemy, regarding it as the greater evil. That would be the Dallas Cowboys, who admittedly have been sleepy of late. Roughly one year ago, the Cowboys owner publicly supported moving the team from Buffalo, and of course they thrashed the Bills twice in two SBs and crowed all the way home. I wouldn't be surprised if they cheated either -- Johnson certainly wasn't above that. To top it off, their hell-spawned coach went to Miami and after an agonizing Bills playoff loss stomped on a box of Flutie Flakes in a petulant display of revenge for losing to BC when he was the Hurricanes. They're both enemies, but some enemies are greater than others. In my opinion. There is no greater blatant offense, injustice, or enemy than "Just give it to 'em" followed by the interference in the endzone call.
dave mcbride Posted May 12, 2015 Posted May 12, 2015 There is no greater blatant offense, injustice, or enemy than "Just give it to 'em" followed by the interference in the endzone call. That was bad. Still, the Cowboys are worse.
Rob's House Posted May 12, 2015 Posted May 12, 2015 The cover up is actually worse. Don't lie or thumb your nose to the judge What's your rationale? Regardless of how much it helped, and they wouldn't do it unless they thought it helped, the actual crime was, under Brady's* command, in a Championship game, a guy stole all of the game balls from under the Referee's watch after they had been inspected and within the rules, took them to a bathroom and doctored their balls but not the other team's, which he also had possession of. Agreed. I think that's much worse than denying it after the fact or refusing to hand over his phone.
DrDawkinstein Posted May 12, 2015 Posted May 12, 2015 What's your rationale? Agreed. I think that's much worse than denying it after the fact or refusing to hand over his phone. Off the top of my head... The rationale to why lying about a minor offense is worse than committing the minor offense is because it is piling transgressions, disrespect, and irresponsibility on top of the minor offense. It just makes it worse. The truth can be understood and dealt with, and the person may actually get points for being honest and owning up to their mistake. But when they try to cover it up, they at the very least look like a little weasel with no remorse, and also makes the "parent" look foolish, wastes their time, etc etc This is Parenting 101 type stuff here.
Rob's House Posted May 12, 2015 Posted May 12, 2015 Off the top of my head... The rationale to why lying about a minor offense is worse than committing the minor offense is because it is piling transgressions, disrespect, and irresponsibility on top of the minor offense. It just makes it worse. The truth can be understood and dealt with, and the person may actually get points for being honest and owning up to their mistake. But when they try to cover it up, they at the very least look like a little weasel with no remorse, and also makes the "parent" look foolish, wastes their time, etc etc This is Parenting 101 type stuff here. I agree that the cover up can make the situation as a whole worse, but I can think of very few examples where the cover up is actually worse than the underlying offense (and in the instances I can think of the cover up included criminal activity separate from the underlying act).
DrDawkinstein Posted May 12, 2015 Posted May 12, 2015 (edited) I agree that the cover up can make the situation as a whole worse, but I can think of very few examples where the cover up is actually worse than the underlying offense (and in the instances I can think of the cover up included criminal activity separate from the underlying act). In the criminal justice system, that's probably true. When we are talking parenting over non-important matters (such as the air pressure of footballs), it's much more prevalent. It's more about piling on. You got caught doing something wrong, and now youre doing something wrong again. It's an additional disrespect to the parenting body. The specifics of the actual acts dont matter. It's not a game of "which is worse?", it's more about "you took a bad situation and made it worse". And in this case, you have a team (or child) who has a history of bad behavior. You've already sat them down, punished them, and maybe even went a little easy on them because they promised it wouldnt happen again. And then something small happens. Again. And they lie to your face about it. Time to crack the whip. Perfect example of the cover-up being worse, imo. edit: And I believe the enabling parent (Goodell) is JUST AS MUCH AT FAULT as the misbehaving child here. He let them get away with crap over and over. Even changed the rules in their favor. The parent created this monster. Thank god for new step-dad Troy Vincent! He aint puttin up with that crap Mama Goodell did! Edited May 12, 2015 by DrDareustein
Rico Posted May 12, 2015 Posted May 12, 2015 I'll put it in Al Qaeda's terms: Some here choose to focus on the near enemy (the Patriots), while others prefer to keep the focus on the far enemy, regarding it as the greater evil. That would be the Dallas Cowboys, who admittedly have been sleepy of late. Roughly one year ago, the Cowboys owner publicly supported moving the team from Buffalo, and of course they thrashed the Bills twice in two SBs and crowed all the way home. I wouldn't be surprised if they cheated either -- Johnson certainly wasn't above that. To top it off, their hell-spawned coach went to Miami and after an agonizing Bills playoff loss stomped on a box of Flutie Flakes in a petulant display of revenge for losing to BC when he was the Hurricanes. They're both enemies, but some enemies are greater than others. In my opinion. I almost agree with this, but Dallas is still the number 2 enemy to Miami, that will never ever change for me. I don't like the Pats, but the real enemy is the Red Sox. As for Brady, I am a Purdue grad who lived in Ann Arbor for a few years, U of M is my 2nd-favorite college team so he is OK with me, GO BLUE!
DC Tom Posted May 12, 2015 Posted May 12, 2015 I agree that the cover up can make the situation as a whole worse, but I can think of very few examples where the cover up is actually worse than the underlying offense (and in the instances I can think of the cover up included criminal activity separate from the underlying act). In the criminal justice system, that's probably true. When we are talking parenting over non-important matters (such as the air pressure of footballs), it's much more prevalent. It's more about piling on. You got caught doing something wrong, and now youre doing something wrong again. It's an additional disrespect to the parenting body. The specifics of the actual acts dont matter. It's not a game of "which is worse?", it's more about "you took a bad situation and made it worse". And in this case, you have a team (or child) who has a history of bad behavior. You've already sat them down, punished them, and maybe even went a little easy on them because they promised it wouldnt happen again. And then something small happens. Again. And they lie to your face about it. Time to crack the whip. Perfect example of the cover-up being worse, imo. edit: And I believe the enabling parent (Goodell) is JUST AS MUCH AT FAULT as the misbehaving child here. He let them get away with crap over and over. Even changed the rules in their favor. The parent created this monster. Thank god for new step-dad Troy Vincent! He aint puttin up with that crap Mama Goodell did! You two are directly comparing parenting to the criminal justice system in the context of cheating at football. Just...no. Stop. For your own mental health.
Dragonborn10 Posted May 12, 2015 Posted May 12, 2015 I'm glad Brady got caught and is getting suspended. But let's not kid ourselves. Other teams and past QB's have done the same. Are we not going to say Jerry Rice is greatest WR of all time because he used stick-uM? Unless or until we get more damming information about Spy-gate he is still top five of all time. I'm glad Brady got caught and is getting suspended. But let's not kid ourselves. Other teams and past QB's have done the same. Are we not going to say Jerry Rice is greatest WR of all time because he used stick-uM? Unless or until we get more damming information about Spy-gate he is still top five of all time.
26CornerBlitz Posted May 12, 2015 Posted May 12, 2015 Isn't it always good to have athletic supporters?
Formerly Allan in MD Posted May 12, 2015 Posted May 12, 2015 It's called free speech. You can go on their board as well.
Rob's House Posted May 13, 2015 Posted May 13, 2015 You two are directly comparing parenting to the criminal justice system in the context of cheating at football. Just...no. Stop. For your own mental health. WE are doing no such thing.
Saxum Posted May 13, 2015 Posted May 13, 2015 if the rolls were reversed and it was our Bills who had won all those super bowls pushing the envelope bending and breaking rules, the comments on this board would be quite different. the question i always wonder more is how a silly asterisk * makes anyone feel better ? Yes p*p*zoid astericks make me feel better.
K8prisoner Posted May 13, 2015 Posted May 13, 2015 (edited) It's called adult discussion. As Derek points out, reasonable people can debate the finer points. It makes it more interesting. Other posters simply call others "pats fans"....as though that is some sort of contribution to the discussion. If it bothers you, don't participate. oooh yer soooo adult... schill.. cough troll cough Yes p*p*zoid astericks make me feel better. another usual suspect.. mee too do we have paid schills here like other internet subjects... Edited May 13, 2015 by K8prisoner
papazoid Posted May 13, 2015 Posted May 13, 2015 Yes p*p*zoid astericks make me feel better l*a*f*f*i*n*
Mr. WEO Posted May 13, 2015 Posted May 13, 2015 oooh yer soooo adult... schill.. cough troll cough another usual suspect.. mee too do we have paid schills here like other internet subjects... Just when I was sure all of the usual whacks had been lured out of the attic----hey everyone....K8prisoner is back! This just made my day!
dave mcbride Posted May 13, 2015 Posted May 13, 2015 I almost agree with this, but Dallas is still the number 2 enemy to Miami, that will never ever change for me. I don't like the Pats, but the real enemy is the Red Sox. As for Brady, I am a Purdue grad who lived in Ann Arbor for a few years, U of M is my 2nd-favorite college team so he is OK with me, GO BLUE! I respect that, and I agree that the Red Sox are enemy #1.
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