Brady to be SUSPENDED next week according to report

[Mr. WEO]

 

Intent doesn't matter if no rule violation occurred. If someone intends to break the law by speeding, and proceeds to drive no higher than the speed limit, it doesn't matter that they intended to break the law. They didn't.

 

It doesn't appear that furnishing a ball to the referees that fails to meet the league's requirements constitutes a violation of the rules (the rules appear to contemplate a process by which each team furnishes balls to the referees, and the referees determine whether those balls are appropriate to be used for the game. The rules provide that "[t]he Referee shall be the sole judge as to whether all balls offered for play comply with [the] specifications", and given that the rules require that "[a] pump is to be furnished by the home club", the rules appear to contemplate that a team may furnish balls that fail to meet the league's specifications.).

 

If furnishing a ball that does not meet the league's specifications does not violate the rules, what would Rodgers be punished for? Intending to break a rule that doesn't exist?

 

If Rodgers overinflates every ball and a few make it past what sounds like a cursory inspection by ref crews and such a ball makes it into his hands at gametime, he's breaking the rules by playing with that ball.

 

Some of you seem confused and are claiming that Rodgers is participating in some sort of referee quality control initiative....

 

Yeah, but how likely is it that Brady's attitude toward ball prep has changed since 2006? If anything, he's probably more anal now than he was back then--since he knows he has the absolute ability to set them up how he likes them every week.

 

As to the number of people involved, it really would be the same guys--Jastremski, who probably stated the deal and his more recent protege McNally. That's a tight circle--and obviously McNally was the weak link. When it may have been just Jastremski, it was an even tighter circle...

But the league also didn't have to spend seven figures to produce a 243 page report on those teams--who admitted they did it and cooperated with the NFL

 

No they didn't. Maybe if they instead appraoched Brady/BB and quietly told them they were aware of what they were doing (before all of this blew up) and to knock it off, they wouldn't have wasted all this time and money.

[dave mcbride]

This ain't a criminal trial, so readonable doubt doesn't apply--preponderance of the evidence. Plenty of evidence here to beat all 3.

I've said multiple times above that this isn't a court of law. That's obvious. At the risk of beating a dead horse, I think he will be suspended.

[Kelly the Dog]

There's a preponderance of evidence?? The prosecutor (Wells) says there is, but a decent defense attorney would tear that report to shreds. There was no defense attorney though. Remember that there was no rebuttal - Wells serves as both prosecutor and defender, and he gets to choose which role he wants to play. I think he leaned more towards the former, but that's his right.

 

You have no idea what is on Brady's phone. If you say you do, you're lying. Defendants have been able to create doubt on far, far less evidence.

I never said anything about his phone. In a court of law, the simple fact of withholding it under these circumstances, where Wells said only the relevant material would be looked at and he didn't even have to surrender it, would be a huge item against him with a jury.

[dave mcbride]

I never said anything about his phone. In a court of law, the simple fact of withholding it under these circumstances, where Wells said only the relevant material would be looked at and he didn't even have to surrender it, would be a huge item against him with a jury.

You're presuming that he would he withhold it in a courtroom. He wouldn't; it would be obstruction of justice.

[Doc]

while i agree he will get hit for it.... come on, man.

"Come on" what? If he's got nothing to hide, he produces the phone. It's as simple as that.

[Kelly the Dog]

If Rodgers overinflates every ball and a few make it past what sounds like a cursory inspection by ref crews and such a ball makes it into his hands at gametime, he's breaking the rules by playing with that ball.

 

Some of you seem confused and are claiming that Rodgers is participating in some sort of referee quality control initiative.

He's not breaking any rule whatsoever. There is no rule he is breaking. There is not one word in any rule about the teams being responsible for the Psi. Not one. It is entirely on the officials. In fact, if a team or player asks the officials to set the ball at a certain PSi the officials don't even have to do it. And some don't. They do it as a courtesy.

[thebandit27]

You guys are missing my point. I think that the balls were doctored and I think Brady should be suspended. But to conclude that Wells' word would be the final say about what a preponderance of evidence is in a courtroom is simply wrong. That report would be torn to shreds by a good defense attorney. There is nothing in it that directly incriminates Brady, and he would likely win his case. Now if his phone has incriminating evidence, that's a different story. But we don't know if it does, and the fact that there are no incriminating texts from Brady to the the flunkies suggest that there may not be.

 

This isn't about whether the balls were doctored. It's about whether Brady can be linked to it. That's the issue here.

I haven't missed anything.

 

There's a preponderance that tampering occurred, and the texts are more than enough to point a finger at Brady's involvement. As soon as we start discussing court implications, Brady's phone being subpoenaed becomes a reality.

 

Without knowing what's on it, I'm not sure how you can conclude he would win this case. Then there's the fact that Brady claimed not to have spoken with the ball handlers at all, when indeed he clearly knew them. He gave McNally (who he said he's never met) a pair of sneakers if the texts are to be believed.

Edited May 11, 2015 by thebandit27

[NoSaint]

"Come on" what? If he's got nothing to hide, he produces the phone. It's as simple as that.

the "if youve got nothing to hide....." is really a nails on chalkboard phrase for me. or better yet, the "he refused to cooperate, which shows guilt"

 

 

it suggests it as possible, but like i said... come on man, its a terrible smoking gun. there are a variety of reasons he may not cooperate that have nothing to do with PSI.

[Kelly the Dog]

You're presuming that he would he withhold it in a courtroom. He wouldn't; it would be obstruction of justice.

Answer this. And we will stop this hypothetical. And I know you think he is guilty and will get suspended. Do you think there is any chance at all, outside of never say never, that there is NOT incriminating evidence on that phone, and that Brady was just saying no for reasons that had nothing to do with evidence against him, just theoretical reasons? Especially considering they were ONLY asking for texts about the deflating.

[Nanker]

I think the Pats* should have to use a medicine ball for the 2016 season and every year thereafter until they win another championship.

[dave mcbride]

Answer this. And we will stop this hypothetical. And I know you think he is guilty and will get suspended. Do you think there is any chance at all, outside of never say never, that there is NOT incriminating evidence on that phone, and that Brady was just saying no for reasons that had nothing to do with evidence against him, just theoretical reasons? Especially considering they were ONLY asking for texts about the deflating.

Actually, I believe it's 50-50 because if he does have texts incriminating himself, they're likely to be ones he sent to the flunkies. They don't exist, apparently. Maybe he sent some to Kraft/Gisele/Belichik, but I doubt it. Maybe there are others. Bottom line: he's a smart and careful guy, and I wouidn't be surprised if from the get-go advisors of his told him to avoid saying anything incriminating over email or via text. He may have internalized this approach too; that's pretty common these days among people with foresight.

Edited May 11, 2015 by dave mcbride

[NoSaint]

Especially considering they were ONLY asking for texts about the deflating.

i think this has potential to oversimplify -- im guessing it went beyond "just shoot us what you have on PSI" but how far, you and i do not know yet. and if thats all it was its so flimsy that it borders on not worth participating in or asking for in the first place. what was actually asked we may never see in full.

Actually, I believe it's 50-50 because if he does have texts incriminating himself, they're likely to be ones he sent to the flunkies. They don't exist, apparently. Maybe he sent some to Kraft/Gisele/Belichik, but I doubt it. Maybe there are others. Bottom line: he's a smart and careful guy, and I wouidn't be surprised if from the get-go advisors of his told him to avoid saying anything incriminating over email or via text. He may have internalized this approach too; that's pretty common these days among people with foresight.

ill agree if they couldnt produce them, it creates questions as to what brady would actually be able to produce.

[Over 29 years of fanhood]

You guys are missing my point. I think that the balls were doctored and I think Brady should be suspended. But to conclude that Wells' word would be the final say about what a preponderance of evidence is in a courtroom is simply wrong. That report would be torn to shreds by a good defense attorney. There is nothing in it that directly incriminates Brady, and he would likely win his case. Now if his phone has incriminating evidence, that's a different story. But we don't know if it does, and the fact that there are no incriminating texts from Brady to the the flunkies suggest that there may not be.

 

This isn't about whether the balls were doctored. It's about whether Brady can be linked to it. That's the issue here.

If this was a criminal investigation, this report would have been constructed differently and there would have been subpoenas and obstruction charges in play, and if there were legal consequences at stake, I suspect the guys who are caught red handed might be more informative about who knew what was happening.

 

I'm also curious how the pats play this out.

 

1) continue denying everything for all eternity including the incriminating texts from the equipment guys and run a spin campaign

2) make the equipment guys the scapegoats and fire them (this could however lead to recollection of Brady's insolvent)

3) acknowledge the wrong doing across the board, accept the consequences, deny any other organizational awareness outside of Tommy and the ballboys and move on with life.

Edited May 11, 2015 by over 20 years of fanhood

[Doc]

the "if youve got nothing to hide....." is really a nails on chalkboard phrase for me. or better yet, the "he refused to cooperate, which shows guilt"

 

 

it suggests it as possible, but like i said... come on man, its a terrible smoking gun. there are a variety of reasons he may not cooperate that have nothing to do with PSI.

First off, I said "shows guilt" not "proves guilt." Second, why not produced the phone? Wells would obviously keep anything not related to DeflateGate confidential.

[Mr. WEO]

"Come on" what? If he's got nothing to hide, he produces the phone. It's as simple as that.

 

 

Oh, now that's rich...you used to be quite the proponent of a man's right to protect himself from self incrimination--even suggesting anyone would be a fool to cooperate with the police.

 

I'm shocked at your flip on this...

He's not breaking any rule whatsoever. There is no rule he is breaking. There is not one word in any rule about the teams being responsible for the Psi. Not one. It is entirely on the officials. In fact, if a team or player asks the officials to set the ball at a certain PSi the officials don't even have to do it. And some don't. They do it as a courtesy.

 

Taking an over inlfated ball into the game is a violation of the rule. Pretty simple.

[Doc]

Oh, now that's rich...you used to be quite the proponent of a man's right to protect himself from self incrimination--even suggesting anyone would be a fool to cooperate with the police.

 

I'm shocked at your flip on this...

Hook, line, and sinker. Think about what you just wrote above, WEO.

[Lurker]

Hook, line, and sinker. Think about what you just wrote above, WEO.

You mean the ...."protect himself from self incrimination" part?

 

LOL...

[The Wiz]

I was going to ask the OP to update the thread title to "this week" or remove it completely but with the NFL you never know. It makes me think of those "Free beer tomorrow" signs at bars.

[DC Tom]

 

If Rodgers overinflates every ball and a few make it past what sounds like a cursory inspection by ref crews and such a ball makes it into his hands at gametime, he's breaking the rules by playing with that ball.

 

 

Rodgers has the balls inflated the way he wants them, then submits them to the refs who adjust the inflation to be in compliance with the rules.

 

Brady submits the balls to the refs who adjust the inflation to be in compliance with the rules, then has the balls inflated the way he wants them.

 

Yeah, totally the same !@#$ing thing.

[YoloinOhio]

I was going to ask the OP to update the thread title to "this week" or remove it completely but with the NFL you never know. It makes me think of those "Free beer tomorrow" signs at bars.

hahaha