Kelly the Dog Posted May 10, 2015 Posted May 10, 2015 I agree about the cover-up. But Rodgers is illegally over inflating the balls to his assumed advantage (and I have no problem with that either--QBs should be able to adjust the pressure as they and their WRs/RBs prefer. Let everyone do it and there is no preferential advantage) and counting on the fact that refs really don't closely (until now) inspect the balls pre game. He knows he has too much air in there, but he assumes he won't get busted, and if he does, next time maybe he won't. His intent was the same as Brady's. As I said above. The intent is the same, whether it's altered before or after an inspection. Brady's method was more efficient at getting altered balls into the game than Rodgers's, that's all. The intent is not at all the same. The intent for Rodgers is to see if they do their jobs. If they do everything is fair. The intent by Brady is to make sure we cheat after they do their jobs. In Rodgers world if everyone does what they want the game is fair. In Brady's world if everyone does their job it is unfair to his advantage. That's a totally different thing in my book.
chaccof Posted May 10, 2015 Posted May 10, 2015 Any chance Brady* packs it in and retires if he's suspended for any meaningful length of time? I played golf today with a born and raised Bostonian and he thinks Brady* will pack it in if he gets suspended....
Kelly the Dog Posted May 10, 2015 Posted May 10, 2015 Any chance Brady* packs it in and retires if he's suspended for any meaningful length of time? I played golf today with a born and raised Bostonian and he thinks Brady* will pack it in if he gets suspended.... I don't think there is very much chance at all. That would almost admit, in the publics eye, that he cheated all along and couldn't play without cheating. That is not at all the case and surely he would work his ass off to come back and show everyone that it had no affect on his play.
BuffaloHokie13 Posted May 10, 2015 Posted May 10, 2015 (edited) As I said above. The intent is the same, whether it's altered before or after an inspection. Brady's method was more efficient at getting altered balls into the game than Rodgers's, that's all. As I said above, they are different. Also, this wasn't even your point. You said Rodgers certainly implied that he has his balls overinflated (this has to be after they are inspected by the refs too, i would think) because he feels it gives him an advantage throwing. And it was completely false and based on an incomplete quote. So, why qualify it with a false statement if the intent is the same in the first place? Edited May 10, 2015 by BuffaloHokie13
NoSaint Posted May 10, 2015 Posted May 10, 2015 Umm, Brady conspired to alter the balls AFTER they were inspected. Rogers didn't. Huge difference. The issue is far less about air pressure and far more about a deliberate attempt to tamper with equipment after the official inspection was complete. As a reference point how wide of a gap are your feelings between the two situations? Say it was Rodgers overinflating being discussed - any penalty?
Kelly the Dog Posted May 10, 2015 Posted May 10, 2015 As a reference point how wide of a gap are your feelings between the two situations? Say it was Rodgers overinflating being discussed - any penalty?Teams tell the officials before the game what they want their balls to be set at. If they don't tell the officials a number, then the officials set the balls at 13.0 smack dab in the middle. In the Wells report it said some officials don't even listen to the team's, they just automatically set them at 13.0 themselves. Rodgers overinflating should have nothing to do with the game balls. It seems to be a fan fallacy or urban legend that the officials don't check the balls or weigh them. There is nothing in the report that says this although it surely happens once in awhile. There is a clear policy and there is a clear thing they all do. And if teams were violating it repeatedly the offices would know. It's not even illegal or against the rules to overinflate them before the game as Rodgers says. That is really the end all to the Brady and Rodgers issue. What Brady did was illegal. What Rodgers did is not really illegal or against the rules.
Thurmal34 Posted May 10, 2015 Posted May 10, 2015 (edited) As a reference point how wide of a gap are your feelings between the two situations? Say it was Rodgers overinflating being discussed - any penalty?The gap lies in the deliberate attempt to tamper after the official inspection vs the submission of non regulation equipment prior to official inspection. That gap, IMO, is pretty wide. The reason there is an official inspection in the first place, presumably, is to ensure equipment meets league standards. Large difference between seeing if you can sneak one by the refs vs deliberately altering afterward. Edited May 10, 2015 by Thurmal34
Augie Posted May 10, 2015 Posted May 10, 2015 The gap lies in the deliberate attempt to tamper after the official inspection vs the submission of non regulation equipment prior to official inspection. That gap, IMO, is pretty wide. The reason there is an official inspection in the first place, presumably, is to ensure equipment meets league standards. Large difference between seeing if you can sneak one by the refs vs deliberately altering afterward. That's a pretty serious gap (if that's how it went down). It's also goes to a whole new level when you refuse to cooperate in the investigation. THAT should hang him. As I've said, mainuplating the balls to significantly reduce the fumble rate sounds EXACTLY like something Bellicheat would mastermind. "Hey, Tom, tell them to take a couple pounds off. You like that too, right?" That would explain holding out on the phone records. That's a pretty serious gap (if that's...... oh, just kidding!
MattM Posted May 10, 2015 Posted May 10, 2015 I agree about the cover-up. But Rodgers is illegally over inflating the balls to his assumed advantage (and I have no problem with that either--QBs should be able to adjust the pressure as they and their WRs/RBs prefer. Let everyone do it and there is no preferential advantage) and counting on the fact that refs really don't closely (until now) inspect the balls pre game. He knows he has too much air in there, but he assumes he won't get busted, and if he does, next time maybe he won't. His intent was the same as Brady's. Yes, NE had to make due with Revis at CB. Good thing the League allowed NE to keep on the roster (he saw action in 6 games) a guy the don't want anymore (even without Revis). But since you were unable to respond to a single thing I said in my response to your last post, I'm going to concede this Dennard thing you keep bizarrely trotting out when you don't have anything of substance to say. You win.......something or other on your Dennard penalty sub-fetish. You got me! Your quiver is now empty... As I said above. The intent is the same, whether it's altered before or after an inspection. Brady's method was more efficient at getting altered balls into the game than Rodgers's, that's all. I said nothing on your other points because they were ridiculous, particularly the point about the Hughes tomahawk play. Football is a game of emotion and to say that had Hughes stripped a properly inflated ball leading to a Buffalo touchdown it would have had no impact on an otherwise relatively close game doesn't pass the sniff test to any rational person. Glad to finally get an answer on good old Alphonzo. So I guess if Marcell gets any time off at all for his citation level offense you'll be leading the charge about how unfair it is compared to punishment given (or, more accurately, not given) to NE**'s players.
DC Tom Posted May 10, 2015 Posted May 10, 2015 I agree about the cover-up. But Rodgers is illegally over inflating the balls to his assumed advantage Rodgers has the balls inflated the way he wants them, then submits them to the refs who adjust the inflation to be in compliance with the rules. Brady submits the balls to the refs who adjust the inflation to be in compliance with the rules, then has the balls inflated the way he wants them. Yeah, totally the same !@#$ing thing.
3rdand12 Posted May 10, 2015 Posted May 10, 2015 I don't think there is very much chance at all. That would almost admit, in the publics eye, that he cheated all along and couldn't play without cheating. That is not at all the case and surely he would work his ass off to come back and show everyone that it had no affect on his play. I think he will. he has nothing left to prove. in his mind. As a reference point how wide of a gap are your feelings between the two situations? Say it was Rodgers overinflating being discussed - any penalty? This a point all of us should consider. Well done No Saint !!
Kelly the Dog Posted May 10, 2015 Posted May 10, 2015 I think he will. he has nothing left to prove. in his mind. !! If that is what matters to him or anyone, then I would agree. But he, like anyone, will be more concerned with his legacy and how he is perceived by others not by what he thinks in his own head. I'm sure he feels like he has nothing to prove. But I also think he knows if he quits he will be thought of by 90% of the fans as a cheater and no way he wants that.
kelsay2sackseason Posted May 10, 2015 Posted May 10, 2015 Rodgers has the balls inflated the way he wants them, then submits them to the refs who adjust the inflation to be in compliance with the rules. Brady submits the balls to the refs who adjust the inflation to be in compliance with the rules, then has the balls inflated the way he wants them. Yeah, totally the same !@#$ing thing. why does rodgers inflate them if they are just going to be set back to normal regulation? ive done lots of reading on the logistics of the balls before, during the game and there is lots of confusion at least from my understanding on what exactly the legal process is, whether things were implied, or whatever. once again, it is what it is and bellicheck seems to always push the envelope when it comes to the rules i think a 4 game suspension is probably realistic ....
3rdand12 Posted May 10, 2015 Posted May 10, 2015 (edited) The gap lies in the deliberate attempt to tamper after the official inspection vs the submission of non regulation equipment prior to official inspection. That gap, IMO, is pretty wide. The reason there is an official inspection in the first place, presumably, is to ensure equipment meets league standards. Large difference between seeing if you can sneak one by the refs vs deliberately altering afterward. So there is no misunderstanding in my thought process. I think Brady cheated and Rodgers just played the game as it should be played. Brady stepped over the line. Now if Rodgers did the same thing by under inflating then how would i feel ? not sure. but it is something to consider. is this an emotional matter for us ? sure it is. due to factual history of previous methods by the Patriots organisation as a whole! Edited May 10, 2015 by 3rdand12
Kelly the Dog Posted May 10, 2015 Posted May 10, 2015 why does rodgers inflate them if they are just going to be set back to normal regulation? ive done lots of reading on the logistics of the balls before, during the game and there is lots of confusion at least from my understanding on what exactly the legal process is, whether things were implied, or whatever. once again, it is what it is and bellicheck seems to always push the envelope when it comes to the rules Just on the chance the refs do not use a gauge to check them, which is possible in some of the games. There are not any rules that Rodgers is breaking by submitting them overinflated, if he even does that. It seems like he said he did it once in awhile. But again, there are no rules against that. The only rules are that the team has to submit x number of balls. Then the refs are the ones that set the balls at the desired psi. If they weight within the rules when given to them, they may or may not alter them to get them to the exact PSi the team wants. If they don't weigh within the parameters they alter them until they do. But it is not any penalty or wrongdoing for that.
3rdand12 Posted May 10, 2015 Posted May 10, 2015 (edited) If that is what matters to him or anyone, then I would agree. But he, like anyone, will be more concerned with his legacy and how he is perceived by others not by what he thinks in his own head. I'm sure he feels like he has nothing to prove. But I also think he knows if he quits he will be thought of by 90% of the fans as a cheater and no way he wants that. still dont agree. Good thoughts to dialogue though. i think he just wanted the trophies and the glory that came with it. He achieved that. Why would he want to reclaim it at his age? The team has already been considered a bunch of scoundrels. he "chose" to miss the White House event. My guess is he thinks himself above it . He won. regardless of how he got there and winning is Everything. just ask Bill lol Edited May 10, 2015 by 3rdand12
rafter Posted May 10, 2015 Posted May 10, 2015 I think there's more players than Brady that play with ball pressure. His problem is I don't think most went to the lengths he did.. Waiting until refs signed off on them, paying off employees, and mainly the cover-up and lies at the end. Its his actions after the accusation that deserve the most penalty, not w/e competitive advantage soft balls garnered.
3rdand12 Posted May 10, 2015 Posted May 10, 2015 (edited) I think there's more players than Brady that play with ball pressure. His problem is I don't think most went to the lengths he did.. Waiting until refs signed off on them, paying off employees, and mainly the cover-up and lies at the end. Its his actions after the accusation that deserve the most penalty, not w/e competitive advantage soft balls garnered. exactly. i think that i what the league needs to hang their proverbial hat upon. Deliberate and willful conduct detrimental to the investigation. in some eyes that is "presumed" guilty. ask any police officer. Failure to take a breathalyzer is as good as guilty Failure to comply with company policy is grounds for dismissal. dismiss him. Edited May 10, 2015 by 3rdand12
Kelly the Dog Posted May 10, 2015 Posted May 10, 2015 exactly. i think that i what the league needs to hang their proverbial hat upon. Deliberate and willful conduct detrimental to the investigation. in some eyes that is "presumed" guilty. ask any police officer. Failure to take a breathalyzer is as good as guilty Failure to comply with company policy is grounds for dismissal. dismiss him. In the investigation, Brady told Wells that he suggested to the Patriots that when they submit the balls to the officials before the game they should show the officials a copy of the applicable page in the rule book that says if the balls are between the limits, they are not to alter them at all. Ha. (This was to prevent the officials from measuring 12.5 but upping it to 13.0 or something.
3rdand12 Posted May 10, 2015 Posted May 10, 2015 Thomas Brady is a rather humorous fellow in his way, as is Billy Blow-nut and then his Boss, Bob(bing ) for apples? Krafty . Quite the culture the NFL has allowed to propagate and let flourish. poor Roger G. for letting them run over him all these years. money money money
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