OBD versus the Draftniks

[KOKBILLS]

I thought this Draft served it's purpose for the Bills...But I can understand the lower grades...Without a 1st and 4th it was inevitable...

 

Most folks looking from the outside in don't get it...And it's easy to sit back and say they need a QB...Even though the 3 they have (apologies to Tuel and his fans...) are very possibly...if not probably better than anything they could have got after the 2nd overall pick in this Draft...The Bills are looking to win, and win big now...None of these project QB's was going to help in 2015...There are not many spots available...That's the honest truth...There were a few holes...I think they filled them decently...

 

It looks like Whaley and his bunch did the one thing that was most important...Get a starting OG...And they were able to get him in the 3rd...Miller is the most important player from this Draft class...He's going to be given every opportunity...If he plays well it's huge...

 

Darby is more a of a future pick, but he'll add insurance depth for 2015...If he develops like they expect the secondary looks stable for the next few years...I like his upside...

 

I think they stole K. Williams...He may end up being the best player from this Bills Draft class...

 

They added a TE late that has a good chance to be a solid #2 for years to come...

 

Steward is an NFL caliber athlete and has a chance to make it on Special Teams...And Lewis was great value in the 7th...

 

In the end the Bills added talent to an already talented roster...I can see Miller, Darby, and Williams as potential starters in the next three years...O'Leary figures to be a good back-up to Clay...And the other two are talented enough to turn in to something if they develop well...All in all not bad, especially considering they did not have the 1st and 4th...Not great, but not bad either...

[BuffaloBill]

It's a shame he still hasn't found a QB, but Doug's done a nice job building this roster. This year we we're going to field the most talented squad we've fielded in a long time.

 

So, yeah, I'm willing to trust Doug on the draft.

It's crazy to think how good this team would be if they had a very good QB. The roster otherwise is loaded. The only real weaknesses are at G, backup T an LB depth. Answers for G and T may already be on the roster. It's hard to say given the mess Saint Doug created.

[Dorkington]

Carr gets a longer rope because his team was garbage and his coach got fired week 4. He had some good games, with pretty good numbers. Agree on Teddy. The Vikings trading the decent vet QB behind him speaks volumes on their opinion of him.

 

But, again, I reiterate that I'm not comparing EJ post rookie year to them, but EJ now to them.

Ah, good ole hindsight.

 

So basically if we choose Bridgewater last year, we're idiots, because EJ showed enough promise and needed some time to develop, wasting our first round pick on another QB, instead of getting a playmaker like Watkins or OBJ, or whomever. EJ then struggled a little during off season, though most say those reports are overblown, started out last year with two good games, followed by two bad games, then benched for a veteran. Now the opinion is, we should have taken Bridgewater, and Whaley is an idiot, because everyone knew EJ would be inconsistent at the beginning of the 2014 season.

 

Yeah... alright.. you win.

[C.Biscuit97]

Carr gets a longer rope because his team was garbage and his coach got fired week 4. He had some good games, with pretty good numbers. Agree on Teddy. The Vikings trading the decent vet QB behind him speaks volumes on their opinion of him.

 

But, again, I reiterate that I'm not comparing EJ post rookie year to them, but EJ now to them.

Carr had a lower QBR than EJ did as a rookie. Carr had 4 tds to 4 ints his first 4 games while EJ got benched by the Jacksonville oline coach with 5 tds and 3 ints.

[Dorkington]

Carr had a lower QBR than EJ did as a rookie. Carr had 4 tds to 4 ints his first 4 games while EJ got benched by the Jacksonville oline coach with 5 tds and 3 ints.

Stats don't matter, how did they look with the unbiased eye test?

[BuffaloHokie13]

Carr had a lower QBR than EJ did as a rookie. Carr had 4 tds to 4 ints his first 4 games while EJ got benched by the Jacksonville oline coach with 5 tds and 3 ints.

Hasn't Carr already played more games than EJ?

[C.Biscuit97]

Neither Derek Carr, nor Teddy Bridgewater have sucked in their second year OTA, training camp, practice and games enough to get benched. Especially not enough to get benched for a late August addition, semi-retired 30 year old QB.

 

Just saw this. Hindsight is sorta necessary, or else Whaley can't "get it wrong" just because we can't get the #1 when there's a Luck or a Winston. However, I advocated for taking a QB in the first or second in 2014, and both of those guys were relatively obtainable, IMO.

EJ's numbers were almost identical to Tannehill through 4 games. Tannehill was allowed to play through it. He got better. EJ got benched and his head coach is working with the o line in Jacksonville.

[Dorkington]

EJ's numbers were almost identical to Tannehill through 4 games. Tannehill was allowed to play through it. He got better. EJ got benched and his head coach is working with the o line in Jacksonville.

But what about the eye test?

[C.Biscuit97]

Hasn't Carr already played more games than EJ?

Haha, yes. Again, I never am going to say EJ is great. But to pump a guy like Carr, who pretty much had worse numbers than EJ did is a rookie, is trying hard to hate.

 

This is the first real NFL offensive coaching staff EJ has had. If he can't improve under this one, move on. But to give up a 25 year old QB is stupid.

[vincec]

All immediate draft grades are are a comparison of what the reviewer would have done in our spot given the same information. Looking at it in that light, it is fairly obvious why they are reviewing drafts and not managing football teams.

Exactly. It really is a complete waste of time but they've gotta say something. It's what they get paid for.

[FireChan]

Ah, good ole hindsight.

 

So basically if we choose Bridgewater last year, we're idiots, because EJ showed enough promise and needed some time to develop, wasting our first round pick on another QB, instead of getting a playmaker like Watkins or OBJ, or whomever. EJ then struggled a little during off season, though most say those reports are overblown, started out last year with two good games, followed by two bad games, then benched for a veteran. Now the opinion is, we should have taken Bridgewater, and Whaley is an idiot, because everyone knew EJ would be inconsistent at the beginning of the 2014 season.

 

Yeah... alright.. you win.

No. That's not my point. EJ had 1 good game in 2014 btw. Who said those reports were overblown? Doug Whaley when he panic-signed Orton?

 

And my opinion was to take a QB in 2014 back before the draft. Don't WGR me and say no matter what happened, it'd be dumb.

Haha, yes. Again, I never am going to say EJ is great. But to pump a guy like Carr, who pretty much had worse numbers than EJ did is a rookie, is trying hard to hate.

 

This is the first real NFL offensive coaching staff EJ has had. If he can't improve under this one, move on. But to give up a 25 year old QB is stupid.

What's better? 23 TD's in one year, or 15 in two?

Carr had a lower QBR than EJ did as a rookie. Carr had 4 tds to 4 ints his first 4 games while EJ got benched by the Jacksonville oline coach with 5 tds and 3 ints.

Remember when I said I wasn't comparing rookie years? And you did it anyway? To make no real point?

Stats don't matter, how did they look with the unbiased eye test?

This is a low hanging fruit. Edited May 11, 2015 by FireChan

[John from Riverside]

Sometimes the boring drafts are the best one.....

 

Fillin in the potato's to go with the steak

[Dorkington]

1) Why draft another young QB if you're happy/content/confident in your previous year's pick heading into the second season?

 

2) How is KO a panic signing? We had Kolb, who was supposed to be the Vet backup/mentor/placeholder. The Bills wanted KO from the start of the 2014 offseason, but KO was sitting on offers and chose the best one closer to the season. How is that panic? That seems consistent to me. Especially since we're doing it again this year with Cassel.

[GunnerBill]

In fairness I do remember Fire Chan was in the "draft a Quarterback early" club in 2014. I disagreed with him then and I still disagree that it was the wise course of action. It may turn out that we "missed" one as a result in Teddy Bridgewater... if we did that's a shame but I don't believe you just keep drafting Quarterbacks until you find one who has a rookie year you are totally convinced by. My view is and remains you are far more likely to miss one doing it that way than miss one by not drafting one high every year because you will move on from a talented guy before it is time to. Quarterbacks are not all ready to play at a high level day 1 and I think fewer college prospects are coming out pro-ready with every passing year.

[BillsVet]

1) Why draft another young QB if you're happy/content/confident in your previous year's pick heading into the second season?

 

1) This is exactly where the Bills have been wrong on QB development across the tenures of multiple GM's. Go with one guy until it's obvious he's not good enough, then begin the "Find a QB Now" process anew. By that point it's too late and you're losing time in your rebuild.

 

I read people here saying you've got to give QB's more time, but if you wait 3 years and the guy doesn't have it, you've got nothing in the pipeline save for journeymen veterans. Besides, the game's changed tremendously in the past 10 years. The way DB's are restricted combined with roughing the passer penalties make it that much easier for young QB's to succeed. It's not the NFL of 2003 when Cincinnati had Carson Palmer sit for an entire season.

 

If Buffalo had taken someone in 2014, it would serve the purpose of pushing EJ harder. And if EJ didn't work out, you've started down the path of developing a young guy. If EJ had worked out, then the younger guy could be used in a trade. They've coddled him and that ended when Marrone removed him after the disastrous Houston game in Week 4.

[Dorkington]

 

1) This is exactly where the Bills have been wrong on QB development across the tenures of multiple GM's. Go with one guy until it's obvious he's not good enough, then begin the "Find a QB Now" process anew. By that point it's too late and you're losing time in your rebuild.

 

I read people here saying you've got to give QB's more time, but if you wait 3 years and the guy doesn't have it, you've got nothing in the pipeline save for journeymen veterans. Besides, the game's changed tremendously in the past 10 years. The way DB's are restricted combined with roughing the passer penalties make it that much easier for young QB's to succeed. It's not the NFL of 2003 when Cincinnati had Carson Palmer sit for an entire season.

 

If Buffalo had taken someone in 2014, it would serve the purpose of pushing EJ harder. And if EJ didn't work out, you've started down the path of developing a young guy. If EJ had worked out, then the younger guy could be used in a trade. They've coddled him and that ended when Marrone removed him after the disastrous Houston game in Week 4.

On the other hand, if we take a top QB prospect in 2014, we sit on two prospects, neither of which may turn out, and we have weaknesses elsewhere, hurting the entire. Does Bridgewater + EJ - Sammy get us to 9-7 last year?

[hondo in seattle]

I've been in the "Draft-A-QB-Every-Year" camp for a long time. Nonetheless, I didn't mind that Whaley didn't draft a QB this year.

Rex has two young QBs to evaluate already. That's enough. He & his coaches will be fully occupied attempting to develop them. Another youngster on the roster would just dilute their efforts - probably uselessly so.

 

First round QBs have a success rate hovering around 50%. But our first pick wasn't until the 2nd round where QBs have about a 20% chance of becoming a 'franchise' guy. Given the low odds of finding a QB worthy of a pick - and given the young QBs already on the roster - I can understand why Whaley didn't a QB this year. I think the two kids on the roster now have just as good a chance of developing into a capable starter as anyone we could have drafted in the middle rounds. But they're going to need intensive coaching.

 

If no one emerges this year, I'd love to see OBD then committing itself to drafting a QB every year until a franchise QB is finally found.

 

Regards the "eyeball" test... I don't see flaws in EJ's games that other young QBs haven't gone on to solve. I'm still holding on to hope that EJ will take a big leap forward this year. Jim Plunkett and Steve Young didn't develop into strong starters until their 30s. Not every QB develops at the same rate.

[GG]

. Does Bridgewater + EJ - Sammy get us to 9-7 last year?

 

Probably not, but you'd have a much clearer picture of the Bills' future QB situation.

[FireChan]

On the other hand, if we take a top QB prospect in 2014, we sit on two prospects, neither of which may turn out, and we have weaknesses elsewhere, hurting the entire. Does Bridgewater + EJ - Sammy get us to 9-7 last year?

I thought the whole argument was that record doesn't matter, developing a QB matters.

1) Why draft another young QB if you're happy/content/confident in your previous year's pick heading into the second season?

 

2) How is KO a panic signing? We had Kolb, who was supposed to be the Vet backup/mentor/placeholder. The Bills wanted KO from the start of the 2014 offseason, but KO was sitting on offers and chose the best one closer to the season. How is that panic? That seems consistent to me. Especially since we're doing it again this year with Cassel.

I wasn't happy or confident in EJ. That's why. Content is not good enough.

 

Do we really have to rehash the KO signing? I think it's quite obvious how and why he was signed. Juxtapose that signing on the Vikings trading their vet "backup/mentor."

In fairness I do remember Fire Chan was in the "draft a Quarterback early" club in 2014. I disagreed with him then and I still disagree that it was the wise course of action. It may turn out that we "missed" one as a result in Teddy Bridgewater... if we did that's a shame but I don't believe you just keep drafting Quarterbacks until you find one who has a rookie year you are totally convinced by. My view is and remains you are far more likely to miss one doing it that way than miss one by not drafting one high every year because you will move on from a talented guy before it is time to. Quarterbacks are not all ready to play at a high level day 1 and I think fewer college prospects are coming out pro-ready with every passing year.

I'm not a draft one every year kinda guy. I know they need time. I also know they need to earn that time. Which is why you need more than one if someone doesn't earn that time.

[CardinalScotts]

I can not if I wanted to honestly rip Whaley's draft picks. Everyone talks of QB..two things Ej's not done and if he is done....who was there to take ? When you get a chance at 21 year old difference maker you take him. It's not a one year pick