BillsVet Posted May 8, 2015 Posted May 8, 2015 Which QB do you think we should have been obtained, and are they a guarantee to be successful? Guarantee? The only guarantees are death and taxes. But rather than answer your trap question, I'll ask you this: How do you obtain a franchise QB if you make one attempt in 3 years to draft one? And your predecessor didn't take one in that time frame either. Then again, draft picks aren't guarantees, so we should wait until we get a high enough pick to take the most sure thing.
Dorkington Posted May 8, 2015 Posted May 8, 2015 Ok, lets say which QB was available to us that has a high probability to be our franchise starter? Otherwise it's a guessing game, bringing in three solid vets, and drafting the best QB of his class (according to just about every scout), I feel like he's done what he's could considering his options. There haven't been too many Luck/Manning "sure things" during the last couple years at our place in the draft. I feel like we've gotten some of the better FA QBs available to us as well... there just haven't been great ones available. We lost on the Peyton sweepstakes, but were we ever in contention?
John from Riverside Posted May 8, 2015 Posted May 8, 2015 An important thing to remember.....the "drafnicks" take absolutely no ownership of their picks and move immediately onto the next draft...... For Bills mgt however....that is their job and livelyhood...they need to be RIGHT
FireChan Posted May 8, 2015 Posted May 8, 2015 Ok, lets say which QB was available to us that has a high probability to be our franchise starter? Otherwise it's a guessing game, bringing in three solid vets, and drafting the best QB of his class (according to just about every scout), I feel like he's done what he's could considering his options. There haven't been too many Luck/Manning "sure things" during the last couple years at our place in the draft. I feel like we've gotten some of the better FA QBs available to us as well... there just haven't been great ones available. We lost on the Peyton sweepstakes, but were we ever in contention? Bridgewater. Carr.
Dorkington Posted May 8, 2015 Posted May 8, 2015 Bridgewater. Carr. Why do they have a high probability of success vs EJ or Tyrod?
Chuck Wagon Posted May 8, 2015 Posted May 8, 2015 Disagree. I think Glennon still has the potential to be the best QB out of that draft and has shown more then anyone else in that QB class. I was hoping they would make a play for him in a trade. I think you misread what I said. I said I personally liked EJ the best out of any QB, never that he is the best out of any of them. The jury is still out on him (and Glennon).
FireChan Posted May 8, 2015 Posted May 8, 2015 Why do they have a high probability of success vs EJ or Tyrod? Is that a serious question?
Dorkington Posted May 8, 2015 Posted May 8, 2015 (edited) Is that a serious question? Yes. Keep in mind, I'm asking in terms of heading into last year's draft. Not hindsight. But feel free to use hindsight as well. Edited May 8, 2015 by Dorkington
Chuck Wagon Posted May 8, 2015 Posted May 8, 2015 An important thing to remember.....the "drafnicks" take absolutely no ownership of their picks and move immediately onto the next draft...... For Bills mgt however....that is their job and livelyhood...they need to be RIGHT Absolutely right. No one cares if Mel Kiper was right about anything, it's just on to the next thing. They are glorified weathermen. If the weatherman said it's going to be sunny and it rains, you'll be annoyed with him, but the next day you forget about it and see what he has to say all over again.
FireChan Posted May 8, 2015 Posted May 8, 2015 (edited) Yes. Neither Derek Carr, nor Teddy Bridgewater have sucked in their second year OTA, training camp, practice and games enough to get benched. Especially not enough to get benched for a late August addition, semi-retired 30 year old QB. Yes. Keep in mind, I'm asking in terms of heading into last year's draft. Not hindsight. But feel free to use hindsight as well. Just saw this. Hindsight is sorta necessary, or else Whaley can't "get it wrong" just because we can't get the #1 when there's a Luck or a Winston. However, I advocated for taking a QB in the first or second in 2014, and both of those guys were relatively obtainable, IMO. Edited May 8, 2015 by FireChan
Dorkington Posted May 8, 2015 Posted May 8, 2015 A.Neither Derek Carr, nor Teddy Bridgewater have sucked in their second year OTA, training camp, practice and games enough to get benched. Especially not enough to get benched for a late August addition, semi-retired 30 year old QB. B.Just saw this. Hindsight is sorta necessary, or else Whaley can't "get it wrong" just because we can't get the #1 when there's a Luck or a Winston. However, I advocated for taking a QB in the first or second in 2014, and both of those guys were relatively obtainable, IMO. A. They haven't even started their second seasons yet... weren't their rookie years last year? B. The 3rd and 4th QBs in the draft, imo, were not seen as probable franchise QBs, especially considering where they were taken. EJ's showing in his rookie year was pretty decent relative to other rookies not named Luck/Griffin, and most reasonable people thought he showed enough to continue developing. I give you that he struggled a bit during the offseason, but again, the QBs available to us in the draft were just as much of a risk, if not more, than riding EJ given what we knew (and still know, imo). The Bills had a solid vet QB lined up (KO was sitting on the offer), and a guy they felt was every bit as good as QBs available to them in the draft. I don't see how this is a missed call other than if EJ doesn't work out, and one of the two mentioned do. How many mock drafts at the time had us taking a QB with our first pick last year?
BuffaloHokie13 Posted May 8, 2015 Posted May 8, 2015 This article points out the "underachievers" of the 2015 draft class. Despite the title and premise, I like that the Bills are in the company of the Pats*, Steelers, and Seahawks when it comes to the draft.
FireChan Posted May 8, 2015 Posted May 8, 2015 (edited) A. They haven't even started their second seasons yet... weren't their rookie years last year? B. The 3rd and 4th QBs in the draft, imo, were not seen as probable franchise QBs, especially considering where they were taken. EJ's showing in his rookie year was pretty decent relative to other rookies not named Luck/Griffin, and most reasonable people thought he showed enough to continue developing. I give you that he struggled a bit during the offseason, but again, the QBs available to us in the draft were just as much of a risk, if not more, than riding EJ given what we knew (and still know, imo). The Bills had a solid vet QB lined up (KO was sitting on the offer), and a guy they felt was every bit as good as QBs available to them in the draft. I don't see how this is a missed call other than if EJ doesn't work out, and one of the two mentioned do. How many mock drafts at the time had us taking a QB with our first pick last year? You asked me why they have a better chance of being good QB's and I gave you one. Suffice it to say that I think EJ's probability to be good has dropped since the end of his rookie year. I don't know how many good or great QB's were noticeably worse their second year. Carr's and Bridgewater's haven't sucked their second year, and by that virtue, today, they have a greater chance of being successful. I don't care about mock drafts. I don't care what the media thought we should do. Admittedly, my desire to draft another QB in 2014 was more because EJ got hurt 3 times, and less about his performance. He had a decent rookie year, with injury concerns. He wasn't the clear cut starter for 2014 (obviously) and thus, I wanted another one. Edited May 8, 2015 by FireChan
flomoe Posted May 8, 2015 Posted May 8, 2015 In this era of offensive football, what has a NFL GM done if, after 3 off-seasons of rebuilding, he hasn't identified a franchise QB? Really? It's not like he has passed on multiple "franchise" quarterbacks during his short tenure. There aren't and haven't been any QB's worth grabbing. It's not Whaley's fault that this has been such a long stretch without a "franchise" QB. I guess he could have pulled a Ditka and traded this years and next years draft to try and get Winston or Mariota but neither of them fall into the Luck category. Stop being an a$$ and let things play out. The Bills and well over a dozen teams are still hoping to find that QB. The 10 or so teams that have their "franchise" QB aren't going to give theirs away because they know what they have.
PlayoffsPlease Posted May 9, 2015 Posted May 9, 2015 The "experts" are wrong more often than not. If they were really experts, then they would be working in a front office somewhere. Grading a draft immediately after it takes places is a futile exercise. Until these guys actually get on the field, nobody knows how well they will perform in the NFL. I am very comfortable with the players that Whaley has added through the draft, free agency, and trades over the past couple of years and I feel the same way about this year's draft. Some depth and ST players were added and a couple of guys that will compete for playing time right away. Good draft IMO. Are you saying the GM's have no idea how these guys will perform in the NFL? Do they really get paid all that money just to guess?
Lurker Posted May 9, 2015 Posted May 9, 2015 Are you saying the GM's have no idea how these guys will perform in the NFL? Do they really get paid all that money just to guess? Highly educated guess...
GunnerBill Posted May 10, 2015 Posted May 10, 2015 Neither Derek Carr, nor Teddy Bridgewater have sucked in their second year OTA, training camp, practice and games enough to get benched. Especially not enough to get benched for a late August addition, semi-retired 30 year old QB. Just saw this. Hindsight is sorta necessary, or else Whaley can't "get it wrong" just because we can't get the #1 when there's a Luck or a Winston. However, I advocated for taking a QB in the first or second in 2014, and both of those guys were relatively obtainable, IMO. Neither Bridgewater or Carr have got that far yet. Carr is a bit of a mystery to me. I think he showed flashes in his rookie year but there were games too awful for words too and his numbers were not great. The love he gets on here astounds me. Bridgewater I take a different view. I think the Vikings have every reason to feel good about him.
FireChan Posted May 11, 2015 Posted May 11, 2015 Neither Bridgewater or Carr have got that far yet. Carr is a bit of a mystery to me. I think he showed flashes in his rookie year but there were games too awful for words too and his numbers were not great. The love he gets on here astounds me. Bridgewater I take a different view. I think the Vikings have every reason to feel good about him. Carr gets a longer rope because his team was garbage and his coach got fired week 4. He had some good games, with pretty good numbers. Agree on Teddy. The Vikings trading the decent vet QB behind him speaks volumes on their opinion of him. But, again, I reiterate that I'm not comparing EJ post rookie year to them, but EJ now to them.
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