MattM Posted May 9, 2015 Posted May 9, 2015 These guys too.. http://www.csnne.com/new-england-patriots/san-diego-chargers-2012-towel-violation-similar-to-patriots Maybe a there should just be a round robin of 2 teams suspended each season? Sounds to me from that article like the Chargers were cleared and the League clarified its position after the fact on a previously non-existent rule there. Not really the same thing.
Prickly Pete Posted May 9, 2015 Posted May 9, 2015 Sounds to me from that article like the Chargers were cleared and the League clarified its position after the fact on a previously non-existent rule there. Not really the same thing. I didn't say it was the same thing. There are surely similarities that any intelligent reader can find, though. Maybe read it again?
Wayne Cubed Posted May 9, 2015 Posted May 9, 2015 These guys too.. http://www.csnne.com/new-england-patriots/san-diego-chargers-2012-towel-violation-similar-to-patriots Maybe a there should just be a round robin of 2 teams suspended each season? Except it's not the same... Using the towels at the time wasn't against the rules. Much like when the Pats** used "that" formation in the playoffs. The NFL then changed the rule on the towels just like they changed the rule on the formation. The Chargers were fined for not cooperating with the officials, not for the towels. Taking air out of the footballs after the refs have officially checked them is against the rules. It was before Brady* told the 2 ball boys to do it and it's still against the rules now. Keep digging.
May Day 10 Posted May 9, 2015 Posted May 9, 2015 Good god people are still arguing this? They got caught. This offense along with their actions after the fact are worthy of discipline. Its nearly unanimous. People can give their Google machines a rest
MattM Posted May 9, 2015 Posted May 9, 2015 As I said to my wife a few years back when the camera was panning the New England** sideline, they all look like they'd cut their own grandmother's throat for a few extra dollars. There was just a seriously skeezy look from their assembled staff, the kind that makes your neck hairs stand up. Maybe two of those guys were McNally and Jastremzki, who knows?
dave mcbride Posted May 10, 2015 Posted May 10, 2015 Unless I'm missing something, this strikes as important. Thoughts? http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2015/05/10/pressure-gauge-discrepancies-undermine-wells-report/
Matt in KC Posted May 10, 2015 Posted May 10, 2015 Unless I'm missing something, this strikes as important. Thoughts? http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2015/05/10/pressure-gauge-discrepancies-undermine-wells-report/ I think that article completely missed the boat. In the analysis they control for both the gauge used and the operator. Page 100 footnote: The inspection, which involved each ball being inspected twice with different gauges, revealed that none of the Patriots‟ game balls were inflated to the specifications required under Rule 2, Section 1. In fact, one of the game balls was inflated to 10.1 psi, far below the requirement of 12½ to 13½ psi. In contrast, each of the Colts‟ game balls that was inspected met the requirements set forth above. Page 111: Over the course of their work, our expert consultants: Conducted a thorough statistical analysis of the data recorded at halftime of the AFC Championship Game; Conducted a comprehensive examination, both physical and statistical, of the gauges used to measure the air pressure of the footballs pre-game and at halftime; and Evaluated the effects that various usage, physical and environmental factors present on game day would have had on the measured pressure of a football. Based on their analyses and experiments, our consultants reached the following conclusions, among others: The gauges used on the day of the AFC Championship Game appear to have worked reliably and consistently on game day, and the difference in the pressure drops between the teams was not caused by a malfunction of either gauge I don't see any "wiggle room" that supports the article's key statement that "the scientific proof of tampering hinges on a literal coin flip between the pressure gauge that generated a higher reading and the pressure gauge that generated a lower reading."
PromoTheRobot Posted May 10, 2015 Posted May 10, 2015 (edited) For the life of me I can't understand why some people continue to dissect all minutiae related to actual ball pressure measurements. It is way past that. All evidence and common sense shows that Brady and the two Marrones were involved in a protocol to take more air out of the balls after they were officially measured. Splitting hairs about the science of this ball vs. that is about as relevant as whether a sting operation was involved. It doesn't matter - in the end there were intentional acts to not follow the rules and then lie and try to cover up for doing so. End of Story. That's a diversion tactic It also drives me nuts to hear media people whine that they are bored of all this Deflategate talk, like it hurts their brain for a topic to last more than five minutes. The guy doing the Saturday shift on 'GR (not Sal) was like that. This is exactly the attitude that lets cheaters skate free. If the NFL is really going to base punishment on public reaction, this crap is harmful. Edited May 10, 2015 by PromoTheRobot
eball Posted May 10, 2015 Posted May 10, 2015 I didn't say it was the same thing. There are surely similarities that any intelligent reader can find, though. Maybe read it again? Funny you bring a blog by a Pats** "insider" into the discussion to manufacture "similarities" between a situation involving a "violation" of a rule that didn't exist, with no evidence of any altered equipment being used in a game. I'm going with needlenose pliers; even that tool is pretty useless.
Prickly Pete Posted May 10, 2015 Posted May 10, 2015 Funny you bring a blog by a Pats** "insider" into the discussion to manufacture "similarities" between a situation involving a "violation" of a rule that didn't exist, with no evidence of any altered equipment being used in a game. I'm going with needlenose pliers; even that tool is pretty useless. I thought you were "blocking" me?
Kelly the Dog Posted May 10, 2015 Posted May 10, 2015 There were two gauges, with one that measured approximately .3 to .4 less than the other. But they were consistent. All but two of the balls provided by the Pats came in at 12.5, the lowest amount allowable before the game. Anderson altered the other two to be at 12.5. So the gauge Anderson used before the game registered them all at 12.5. IF Anderson used the gauge that registered .3 to .4 lower than the other at the start, then the balls could all have been actually 12.8 to 12.9 to start. But if he used the one that registered lower, it would have to be the one that registered the same amount lower at halftime. Which were Blakemons numbers and not Prioleaus. Blakemons numbers, the non logo gauge, were way, way below the limits. Half of them were in the 10s, including all of the lowest measurements, which make it look worse for the Patriots. And if you added .3 to .4 to them it would still be way lower than legal. None of them would still be close. It would be impossible for one of the gauges to measure high numbers at the beginning and then the same gauge measure lower numbers at halftime. The gauges were proven to be consistent. If the best possible outcome for the Pats was what actually happened, that The gauge Anderson used was the Logo gauge, which measured higher numbers, and it was the accurate one, and equal to gauges the Pats used, there were still a few balls way below, including one at 10.9. So no matter which gauge Anderson used at the start, nor at halftime, and no matter which one was accurate, they cheated.
Kelly the Dog Posted May 10, 2015 Posted May 10, 2015 By the way, it also should be brought up that the Patriots and Brady probably do not do this all the time. Every indication is that McNally, he of the nickname "The Deflator," is the one that takes the balls after they have been measured to the field. He is the one that alters them. McNally ONLY works home games for the last 2-3 years. And only went to select away games before. And probably did not carry the balls to the field in away games anyway. So even if the Pats have been doing this for years it is very likely only home games.
NoSaint Posted May 10, 2015 Posted May 10, 2015 By the way, it also should be brought up that the Patriots and Brady probably do not do this all the time. Every indication is that McNally, he of the nickname "The Deflator," is the one that takes the balls after they have been measured to the field. He is the one that alters them. McNally ONLY works home games for the last 2-3 years. And only went to select away games before. And probably did not carry the balls to the field in away games anyway. So even if the Pats have been doing this for years it is very likely only home games. Which would mean the rule change wouldn't have made a difference, right? As home teams used to prep all the balls if I remember correct. If he's only been with the team a short period, and it only home games do the fumble numbers need to get looked at again, potentially?
May Day 10 Posted May 10, 2015 Posted May 10, 2015 By the way, it also should be brought up that the Patriots and Brady probably do not do this all the time. Every indication is that McNally, he of the nickname "The Deflator," is the one that takes the balls after they have been measured to the field. He is the one that alters them. McNally ONLY works home games for the last 2-3 years. And only went to select away games before. And probably did not carry the balls to the field in away games anyway. So even if the Pats have been doing this for years it is very likely only home games. What is it? 44 straight meaningful wins vs the afc?
NoSaint Posted May 10, 2015 Posted May 10, 2015 Absolutely. They wait for public reaction to decide punishments. It's a joke. The more they wait it out, the less public outcry/conversation about Deflate gate, the less severe the punishment for Brady. Just another favor from Goddell to his best buddy Kraft. How far does this have to go before people chill with the "nfl conspiracy to save the pats" stuff. At this point it sounds as silly as the pats "they are out to get us" comments What is it? 44 straight meaningful wins vs the afc?its almost like good teams are very hard to beat at home.
Kelly the Dog Posted May 10, 2015 Posted May 10, 2015 Which would mean the rule change wouldn't have made a difference, right? As home teams used to prep all the balls if I remember correct. If he's only been with the team a short period, and it only home games do the fumble numbers need to get looked at again, potentially? He's been with the team 24 years or something. The last 2-3 he's only worked home games.
NoSaint Posted May 10, 2015 Posted May 10, 2015 I'm not sure how much of a conspiracy it is. It's well known that Kraft and Goodell are very close. You'd think he would've stopped it with a call pre-game, or steering the investigation or steering the report, or... That's why I think it's odd you think waiting a week to punish would be the way goodell saves them embarrassment here.
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