Kirby Jackson Posted May 6, 2015 Posted May 6, 2015 After reading the report, it is clear, IMO, that: Tom Brady actively engaged in behavior that gained his team an unfair competitive advantage. Deflating the football makes it easier to grip, throw, catch, and hang on to. You can make the argument all you want that others may have done the same thing. That is irrelevant. That argument doesn't work for steroid use which is essentially the same thing, conceptually: Engaging in behavior that provides a competitive advantage. No matter how many athletes might be doing it, you are still punished if you get caught. It is behavior that goes directly to the heart of the integrity of the game. It is also indisputable that he lied to the NFL and refused to cooperate fully. In addition, there is an abundance of evidence indicating consciousness of guilt on the part of Brady all through that report. As much as I dislike the Patriots, I have always had a lot of respect for Tom Brady. Any post I have ever written in reference to him will bear that out. I might be in the minority, but what Brady did before and during the investigation trampled all over "the integrity of the game," and should be punished accordingly. That's a really nice and level headed post. Well done!!
Rubes Posted May 6, 2015 Posted May 6, 2015 ProFootballTalk @ProFootballTalk Browns, Falcons may set precedent for Patriots punishment, which could be good news for the Patriots wp.me/p14QSB-9LB7 When the time comes for Commissioner Roger Goodell to discipline the Patriots, the most recent precedent comes from the fine plus no lost draft picks imposed on the Browns and the fine plus forfeited 2016 fifth-round pick imposed on the Falcons. The punishment of the Patriots should compare loosely to the punishment imposed on the Browns and Falcons — and what the Falcons did arguably is worse than what the Patriots did.
YoloinOhio Posted May 6, 2015 Author Posted May 6, 2015 ProFootballTalk @ProFootballTalk Browns, Falcons may set precedent for Patriots punishment, which could be good news for the Patriots wp.me/p14QSB-9LB7 the browns and falcons never lied about breaking the rules
billsfan1959 Posted May 6, 2015 Posted May 6, 2015 the browns and falcons never lied about breaking the rules Nor did they fail to fully cooperate...
Fadingpain Posted May 6, 2015 Posted May 6, 2015 (edited) After reading the report, it is clear, IMO, that: Tom Brady actively engaged in behavior that gained his team an unfair competitive advantage. Deflating the football makes it easier to grip, throw, catch, and hang on to. You can make the argument all you want that others may have done the same thing. That is irrelevant. That argument doesn't work for steroid use which is essentially the same thing, conceptually: Engaging in behavior that provides a competitive advantage. No matter how many athletes might be doing it, you are still punished if you get caught. It is behavior that goes directly to the heart of the integrity of the game. It is also indisputable that he lied to the NFL and refused to cooperate fully. In addition, there is an abundance of evidence indicating consciousness of guilt on the part of Brady all through that report. As much as I dislike the Patriots, I have always had a lot of respect for Tom Brady. Any post I have ever written in reference to him will bear that out. I might be in the minority, but what Brady did before and during the investigation trampled all over "the integrity of the game," and should be punished accordingly. Yeah but man, it was just 1 or 2 PSI. No big deal. I mean the referees couldn't tell the difference when they held the balls during the game! This is a minor infraction that likely had a very minor impact on the game! (I'm being facetious; you are spot on; this was well established in the 100+ page thread on this topic whenever that was going on; some here don't seem to catch onto this). If it has been determined that "more likely than not" the Patriots willingly and intentionally ignored rules governing the integrity of the game for their sole benefit, in the wake of repeated crimes of the same ilk, they should be nailed to the cross. Period. Edited May 6, 2015 by Stopthepain
Hot Buffalo Wings Posted May 6, 2015 Posted May 6, 2015 After reading the report, it is clear, IMO, that: Tom Brady actively engaged in behavior that gained his team an unfair competitive advantage. Deflating the football makes it easier to grip, throw, catch, and hang on to. You can make the argument all you want that others may have done the same thing. That is irrelevant. That argument doesn't work for steroid use which is essentially the same thing, conceptually: Engaging in behavior that provides a competitive advantage. No matter how many athletes might be doing it, you are still punished if you get caught. It is behavior that goes directly to the heart of the integrity of the game. It is also indisputable that he lied to the NFL and refused to cooperate fully. In addition, there is an abundance of evidence indicating consciousness of guilt on the part of Brady all through that report. As much as I dislike the Patriots, I have always had a lot of respect for Tom Brady. Any post I have ever written in reference to him will bear that out. I might be in the minority, but what Brady did before and during the investigation trampled all over "the integrity of the game," and should be punished accordingly. Here here!
Fadingpain Posted May 6, 2015 Posted May 6, 2015 Here here! You mean "hear hear!" but point well made my friend!
The Wiz Posted May 6, 2015 Posted May 6, 2015 ProFootballTalk @ProFootballTalk Browns, Falcons may set precedent for Patriots punishment, which could be good news for the Patriots wp.me/p14QSB-9LB7 IMO, this should be the punishment that sets the precedent. You get caught cheating and tarnishing the name of the game, you should be hit hard, especially for lying about it.
Saxum Posted May 6, 2015 Posted May 6, 2015 What SHOULD happen is the Patriots should be prohibited from playoffs this year and to ensure they do not attempt to tank season they will get last pick in every round without ability to trade picks.
The Wiz Posted May 6, 2015 Posted May 6, 2015 One of the most troubling things is the pats stonewalling the investigation by not producing Brady's documents. That should factor into the severity of the suspension. Thanks for say this. I was trying to figure out how to say brady/Pats weren't cooperating but you summed it up perfectly.
ThurmasThoman Posted May 6, 2015 Posted May 6, 2015 Yes, but they have no comments from Brady - no texts, nothing. Just a lot of damning circumstantial evidence that probably wouldn't stand up in a court of law (plus evidence that one of the parties involved really doesn't like Tommy and may have motivation to take him down). the way that youre using "circumstantial" and the way that it applies here are two different things. if you hold a piece of paper behind your back, everyone hears a tear, and you hold up two pieces of paper with a ripped edge, youre not going to be acquitted of ripping a piece of paper because the evidence is only circumstantial. circumstantial applies when you have to make more than 1 leap of logic to present an argument, and there is a compelling counter argument to be found in your prosecution. for instance, if those 2 attendants kept calling him "giselle", and all those phone records showed them contacting bradys wifes phone. now, in that case, the prosecutor could use circumstantial evidence and ask the jury to make the assumption that brady was smart enough not to use his own phone, and was speaking in code from his wifes phone, telling them to deflate balls in exchange for autographed sneakers. but the defense could say that tom is just really intimidating, and giselle knows this, so shell text patriot employees about memorabilia that they want, and get it from tom to give to them, and anything about deflated balls was just a sick joke to refer to brady having no balls because hes married. not to go on a rant--its a small distinction, but an important one. although no one saw him deflate the balls, there is absolutely no competing argument that a defense could make in this case, because every avenue to defend the pats actions ends with a text, a call, or suspicious behavior regarding deflating balls. AND brady and the pats acted like it could NEVER have happened, after they have been punished for cheating in the past.
3rdand12 Posted May 6, 2015 Posted May 6, 2015 How so? Please explain. You haven't said much. Are you 17 as well? Are you 18? One of the great flaws of a forum like this is that we can't see one another or interact in a real manner. There are thousands of determinations we all make when we interact with one another in real life made in milliseconds. Sorry, but I am not going to give as much respect to the idiotic ideas of a 17 year old as I am to someone three times that age. It's just not worth it. We were all young and dumb once. some folks are young and very intelligent, not me of course. i am old and nearly dumb. but i regress. i dont like to discount anyones value
ThurmasThoman Posted May 6, 2015 Posted May 6, 2015 ProFootballTalk @ProFootballTalk Browns, Falcons may set precedent for Patriots punishment, which could be good news for the Patriots wp.me/p14QSB-9LB7 This is absolutely ridiculous and is a great example of why the nfl needs an independent arbitrator for any rule violation proceedings. Both the texting and crowd noise incidents happened before deflate-gate, and yet their punishment wasn't issued until after deflate-gate, yet before the NFL could rule on deflate-gate. Essentially, Goodell knew he was "setting precedent" when he handed down those rulings AND knew that he would have to punish the Patriots next. Now he's given himself new precedent (within the last 30 days) to hand out a light fine instead of the bountygate precedents he set half a decade ago at the beginning of the concussion saga.
Lurker Posted May 6, 2015 Posted May 6, 2015 the browns and falcons never lied about breaking the rules The NFL has to draw a line in the sand at some point. How many consecutive years can they have "the worst off season in history" before the ship starts taking on water and listing to port?
Prickly Pete Posted May 6, 2015 Posted May 6, 2015 (edited) I am very happy that this will have a negative effect on any political aspirations Tom Brady might have. Edited May 6, 2015 by HoF Watkins
The Wiz Posted May 6, 2015 Posted May 6, 2015 (edited) This is absolutely ridiculous and is a great example of why the nfl needs an independent arbitrator for any rule violation proceedings. Both the texting and crowd noise incidents happened before deflate-gate, and yet their punishment wasn't issued until after deflate-gate, yet before the NFL could rule on deflate-gate. Essentially, Goodell knew he was "setting precedent" when he handed down those rulings AND knew that he would have to punish the Patriots next. Now he's given himself new precedent (within the last 30 days) to hand out a light fine instead of the bountygate precedents he set half a decade ago at the beginning of the concussion saga. If the browns GM got 4 games for sending text messages to the sideline then Brady should get a season for lying, cheating and being uncooperative in the investigation. Edited May 6, 2015 by The Wiz
chris heff Posted May 6, 2015 Posted May 6, 2015 Bob Costas, was just on NBC Nightly News. He said this is no big deal, just "gamesmanship". What a tool.
The Wiz Posted May 6, 2015 Posted May 6, 2015 Bob Costas, was just on NBC Nightly News. He said this is no big deal, just "gamesmanship". What a tool. Well there's a lot of respect lost for Costas.
Kelly the Dog Posted May 6, 2015 Posted May 6, 2015 (edited) It keeps getting better and better. The officials were looking for the balls before the Title Game and couldn't find them. Which had never happened once in the official's 19 years in the game. McNally had them, and the official said, "He's not supposed to do that." http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2015/05/06/wells-report-officials-couldnt-find-game-balls-before-afc-title-game/ Edited May 6, 2015 by Kelly the Dog
YoloinOhio Posted May 6, 2015 Author Posted May 6, 2015 @SalSports: Footnote 1 in Wells Report: "More Probable Than Not" = a Preponderance of the Evidence," and the standard of proof required"
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