YoloinOhio Posted May 4, 2015 Posted May 4, 2015 His whole premise that they could have gotten Evans without trading up says it all about the credibility of this piece. Do copy editors even exist anymore? Also, is he still grading the 2014 draft here? Time to move on Mel!
RyanC883 Posted May 4, 2015 Posted May 4, 2015 His agent told every team not to take him as he would just enter the 2016 draft if they did. poor decision by his agent. He is now not eligible to enter the 2016 draft apparently. He will have to sign as an UDFA, which also limits the amount of money he can be paid. If I'm the Bills, I'm calling his agent offering him a 1 year contract after he's cleared, and then he would be a FA eligible for top round money.
C.Biscuit97 Posted May 4, 2015 Posted May 4, 2015 Kiper is a hack. His "best position" rankings had numerous individuals who went undrafted. We should have added a QB who would likely not have made the team? Or reached and drafted Petty too early. The Jets can have fun with another round of inconsistent QB play. We are in a much better QB situation for this year than the Jets. Next year we have the parts to move up and grab a QB if needed. This was a good draft by the Bills. (would have liked an OT like Chaz Green later in the draft, that's my only critique). exactly. The guy watches film and makes guesses. Some of you guys on this board do the same thing and are perhaps better qualified than him. He thought we were idiots for not drafting Jimmy Clausen. My favorite is when he calls a pick a reach or great value because of his "board." Great businessman who helped create an industry. But I put no stock in his opinion.
RyanC883 Posted May 4, 2015 Posted May 4, 2015 I agree with Kiper and anyone else critical of the Bills' draft. The only pick that makes sense is the guard in the third round. The Bills constantly try to outsmart everyone, drafting for glamour (Watkins, Spiller) and reaching when they draft for need and then indulging in luxury picks (a running back this year, really?). The character issues in this draft are very disturbing as well. I can't see the two picks with serious character issues keeping it together over the long haul. If the Pegula era is about disregarding character by signing the likes of Incognite and drafting some of the players we did, I am concerned about a sleeze factor. One Buffalo may be a tank and a football team with a significant number of low character thugs. Yeah, Sammy was a total bust playing with injured ribs and almost catching 1000 yards while having sub-par QB play. Kiko was also another example of "outsmarting" everyone that backfired. He thought we were idiots for not drafting Jimmy Clausen. My favorite is when he calls a pick a reach or great value because of his "board." Great businessman who helped create an industry. But I put no stock in his opinion. Agree with your points here. The think I can't stand about him is the level of self-righteousness he has, and no one ever has the balls to call him on his numerous mistakes (Claussen, etc.)
C.Biscuit97 Posted May 4, 2015 Posted May 4, 2015 Yeah, Sammy was a total bust playing with injured ribs and almost catching 1000 yards while having sub-par QB play. Kiko was also another example of "outsmarting" everyone that backfired. Didn't Kiper and draft "experts" rid us for Cordy Glenn because he couldn't be a NFL LT? I'd have a lot more respect for their profession if they ever admit their mistakes. If they ever got a NFL job (no one is offering Kiper or McShay jobs), they would be fired after 3 years like Matt Millen.
ricojes Posted May 4, 2015 Posted May 4, 2015 You have to evaluate the entire draft, so without a 1st and a 4th, the best grade you could get would probably be a C+. So I would agree with the grade, not that it means anything at this point and time....
Kirby Jackson Posted May 4, 2015 Posted May 4, 2015 You have to evaluate the entire draft, so without a 1st and a 4th, the best grade you could get would probably be a C+. So I would agree with the grade, not that it means anything at this point and time.... The point that KTD has been making is that they docked us last year for trading this year's 1st in the Watkins trade and then docked us this year for having traded this year's 1st. I do agree with your post though. They could not have an A+ type of draft with picks 50, 81 and then not again until the 5th round. There is no reason to be bothered by Kiper's opinion.
YoloinOhio Posted May 4, 2015 Posted May 4, 2015 This >> @ChrisTrapasso: Re: earlier tweet on draft grades - teams who will have many "starting rookies" = good draft grade but those clubs usually struggle.
BuffOrange Posted May 4, 2015 Posted May 4, 2015 (edited) Not sure why so many posters get defensive about our draft grades if they are poor. A lot of our drafts have been average or worse over that last 12 plus years, and many times the draft experts have been right about their assessments of our drafts and our drafting. The Bills seem to have good talent at a number of positions now. Is that primarily the result of good drafting or solid free agent pick-ups? It would be interesting to see statistics that show for each team the percentage of starters that are draft picks versus free agent acquisitions, and for a deeper dive, the quality of our drafted starters versus other teams. Ripping Kiper is a favorite pastime of fans. Even though his player ratings are pretty much the same as most teams. The cherrypicking here is hilarious. Ask the best GM ever to grade every player for 30yrs and he's going to get tons of stuff wrong. Everyone says you have to wait 3yrs and then when you wait 3yrs you're crying over spilled milk for bringing anything up (often it's a different regime because the previous one couldn't find a QB), so you can't win. Edited May 4, 2015 by BuffOrange
Cash Posted May 4, 2015 Posted May 4, 2015 Where is Maxx Williams going to play? We have Clay for 5-6 years. You going to sit Harvin? OLeary is good because he will play 10-15 snaps. You don't want your number two pick to play 15 snaps. Darby will be a starter next year and rarely come off the field on defense. So it sounds like you think McKelvin will be cut and/or Graham will be moved to safety? Both of those are definitely in play, whether Darby wins the starting job or not. I can't see McKelvin making the team as a backup without taking a huge pay cut. Overall, I'm pretty unenthused by this draft, but I don't really watch college football, so I won't kill the Bills unless/until the guys they draft turn out to stink. (These days, I do all my "scouting" after the draft, so I don't waste my time on anyone the Bills don't pick.) But I am somewhat concerned about the design/building of the team, particularly on offense. This is more of a feeling than a prediction, but I worry that, similar to last year, we're going to have a disconnect between the talent on the roster and the talent on the field. To address Kelly's question up top, I actually think Maxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx Williams would've played a lot if we'd drafted him in the 2nd. (I'm glad we didn't, because I think he'll be a bust.) In fact, I kind of think that our #2 TE will play more this year than our #3 WR. I base that on 1.) Everything I've seen breaking down SF's offense under Roman says that they played the most FBs & TEs and the least WRs in the league, and 2.) Whaley has made a few comments about how much Roman likes TEs - most recently, "we have a tight end-centric offense" in one of the draft press conferences (presumably the overall recap, because Monos was the one who directly followed the O'Leary pick). If I'm right, I'm worried, because TE is one of the weakest positions on the roster. Clay is pretty good, and definitely seems to be a fit for what the Bills want, but after that we have a 6th-round rookie, a 7th-rounder from a few years back who's done nothing, and a mid-season signing who caught 2 wide-open passes and turned them into great gains. I'm not a huge fan of either Woods or Harvin, but either of them is WAY ahead of our backup TEs in terms of NFL talent. I'd say both Hogan and Goodwin are still quite a bit ahead of our backup TEs. If we wind up with Gray & Gragg & O'Leary playing more than those WRs, then that's 2 straight coaching staffs (staves?) that had a disconnect with the front office. There's not much point in amassing this super-talented roster if we're just going to keep playing crappy TEs all the time.
C.Biscuit97 Posted May 4, 2015 Posted May 4, 2015 Ripping Kiper is a favorite pastime of fans. Even though his player ratings are pretty much the same as most teams. The cherrypicking here is hilarious. Ask the best GM ever to grade every player for 30yrs and he's going to get tons of stuff wrong. Everyone says you have to wait 3yrs and then when you wait 3yrs you're crying over spilled milk for bringing anything up (often it's a different regime because the previous one couldn't find a QB), so you can't win. Well, you have zero fact to prove this at all. He had Clausen as potentially the top pick in his draft class. Apparently, every team went off their draft board that year.
mattsox Posted May 4, 2015 Posted May 4, 2015 Straight from the Kype himself... http://espn.go.com/blog/buffalo-bills/post/_/id/18654/mel-kiper-grades-bills-draft-as-nfls-worst Here is my view. This was a weak draft class to begin with and we didn't have a first rounder this year so that is going to substantially lower our "Draft Grade" to begin with and we didn't do what we were supposed to do and draft a QB. The jury's out on the QB decision. We'll see if anyone flourishes. I'm not even sure the top 2 guys have what it takes to win.
nucci Posted May 4, 2015 Posted May 4, 2015 I agree with Kiper and anyone else critical of the Bills' draft. The only pick that makes sense is the guard in the third round. The Bills constantly try to outsmart everyone, drafting for glamour (Watkins, Spiller) and reaching when they draft for need and then indulging in luxury picks (a running back this year, really?). The character issues in this draft are very disturbing as well. I can't see the two picks with serious character issues keeping it together over the long haul. If the Pegula era is about disregarding character by signing the likes of Incognite and drafting some of the players we did, I am concerned about a sleeze factor. One Buffalo may be a tank and a football team with a significant number of low character thugs. Watkins was drafted for glamour? What does that mean? Low character thugs? Wow.
BuffOrange Posted May 4, 2015 Posted May 4, 2015 (edited) Well, you have zero fact to prove this at all. He had Clausen as potentially the top pick in his draft class. Apparently, every team went off their draft board that year. If your go-to example of having a guy rated differently than everyone else is someone who was picked 48th in 2010, that should tell you something. You have zero proof that the Bills evaluations of EJ Manuel, JP Losman, John McCargo, and TJ Graham were any less of an outlier to the rest of the league than Kiper's of Clausen. Edited May 4, 2015 by BuffOrange
C.Biscuit97 Posted May 4, 2015 Posted May 4, 2015 If your go-to example of having a guy rated differently than everyone else is someone who was picked 48th in 2010, that should tell you something. You have zero proof that the Bills evaluations of EJ Manuel, JP Losman, John McCargo, and TJ Graham were any less of an outlier to the rest of the league than Kiper's of Clausen. Neither do you.
FLFan Posted May 4, 2015 Posted May 4, 2015 He seems very upset that they didn't take Bryce PettyAlthough with what draft pick he does not say. Chances are, if they had taken with their third round choice, Mel would have derided them for "reaching", and for failing to pick up an OL. Post draft ratings, his in particular, are useless.
DDD Posted May 4, 2015 Posted May 4, 2015 No one knows if these guys can play. Everbody is just making an educated guess. Whaley said he expects his two top picks to be starting in a year. Hope he is right but he too is just blowing smoke up our ass at this point.
Chuck Wagon Posted May 4, 2015 Posted May 4, 2015 This >> @ChrisTrapasso: Re: earlier tweet on draft grades - teams who will have many "starting rookies" = good draft grade but those clubs usually struggle. The formula basically seems to be "How many rookies will start day 1" + "How did they fill the perceived media needs created by spending 5 minutes looking at a depth chart and highlighting guys without well known names" + "How much of the benefit of the doubt they get based upon track record" + "How many name brand draft guys did they take" + "How off base did they make my projected picks look". He said he likes the Miller pick but today he's been saying we should have taken Bryce Petty, who 22 teams passed on after the Miller pick. He had Darby as his 130th ranked player, which sounds absolutely ridiculous given what everyone else has to say about him.
Kelly the Dog Posted May 4, 2015 Posted May 4, 2015 So it sounds like you think McKelvin will be cut and/or Graham will be moved to safety? Both of those are definitely in play, whether Darby wins the starting job or not. I can't see McKelvin making the team as a backup without taking a huge pay cut. Overall, I'm pretty unenthused by this draft, but I don't really watch college football, so I won't kill the Bills unless/until the guys they draft turn out to stink. (These days, I do all my "scouting" after the draft, so I don't waste my time on anyone the Bills don't pick.) But I am somewhat concerned about the design/building of the team, particularly on offense. This is more of a feeling than a prediction, but I worry that, similar to last year, we're going to have a disconnect between the talent on the roster and the talent on the field. To address Kelly's question up top, I actually think Maxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx Williams would've played a lot if we'd drafted him in the 2nd. (I'm glad we didn't, because I think he'll be a bust.) In fact, I kind of think that our #2 TE will play more this year than our #3 WR. I base that on 1.) Everything I've seen breaking down SF's offense under Roman says that they played the most FBs & TEs and the least WRs in the league, and 2.) Whaley has made a few comments about how much Roman likes TEs - most recently, "we have a tight end-centric offense" in one of the draft press conferences (presumably the overall recap, because Monos was the one who directly followed the O'Leary pick). If I'm right, I'm worried, because TE is one of the weakest positions on the roster. Clay is pretty good, and definitely seems to be a fit for what the Bills want, but after that we have a 6th-round rookie, a 7th-rounder from a few years back who's done nothing, and a mid-season signing who caught 2 wide-open passes and turned them into great gains. I'm not a huge fan of either Woods or Harvin, but either of them is WAY ahead of our backup TEs in terms of NFL talent. I'd say both Hogan and Goodwin are still quite a bit ahead of our backup TEs. If we wind up with Gray & Gragg & O'Leary playing more than those WRs, then that's 2 straight coaching staffs (staves?) that had a disconnect with the front office. There's not much point in amassing this super-talented roster if we're just going to keep playing crappy TEs all the time. So we signed Percy Harvin for one year for $6 million dollars but are not going to play him much because Roman likes two TEs? I get the Roman likes TEs and mentioned it a lot. But no chance any second TE plays more than Harvin. Probably a quarter of the plays. OLeary fits a perfect role for that. Roman likes a lot of different things but he uses what he has rather than just having a philosophy or system. He's going to play Harvin. He's going to play Felton because he's one of the best FB blockers in the league. Clay is going to be all over the field.
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